No one read Stimulus Bill

jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
I don't think many will disagree that the Bush presidency was not a good one. However, 5 executive orders in 2 weeks, and demanding from Democrat lackey's in Congress that something be put together (that no one has read completely) to "stimulate" the economy is a bit strong. Not that the action is not appreciated.

It does not take much more than a brain stem though to see that this "stimulus" package will do nothing but increase the size of the govenment. This spending is over and above the current budget (which is out of control). We don't fix debt economic problems by spending more. All they are doing is printing money backed by bad debts.

Fiscal responsibility is all but dead in this country on many levels. If Obama was smart, he would have called for a 35% reduction of all government offices across the board. Shrink the cost, cut back, let the free market system work itself out. Use the surplus to stimulate the economy (i.e. return it to taxpayers). The bailouts & stimulus reward failures, the auto industry is a prime example.

I really hope he can do some good, but economic logic and his actions so far are saying otherwise.
Letting the free market system work its' self out? That is what got us into this mess in the first place.

What we need to be doing: Investing in industry that moves us foward. Investing in infra-structure so our bridges stop collapsing. Investing in more mass transit. Investing in getting alternative energy rolling.

The republicans had their run of it for eight years. If you didn't like it you were basically told to shut up and sit down.

Guess what, sauce that is good on goose is also good on gander.
 
annunaki

annunaki

Moderator
Someone mentioned education. Education is of the utmost importance. However, putting more money into a failed/failing system won't help. Make these school districts show that they can be responsible with what they have.

Put the emphasis on the education not the facilities & extra curriculars. (i.e no money for sports or facilities until they receive a passing grade on a consistent basis). Math science & reading need to be pushed back to the fore front rather than sports. Let the teachers discipline students, give them control of their class rooms. Fail students when they deserve it.

Fixing problems instead of treating symptoms is great analogy.

This is why we should get rid of the political elite by enacting term limits on all branches of government state & federal (3 term max for house, 3 term max for senate, 2 term max for presidency). Keep new fresh ideas & people coming in rather than the same old same old.

Kick big money out of Washington. By having term limits it is hard to have a long running agenda.
 
annunaki

annunaki

Moderator
Letting the free market system work its' self out? That is what got us into this mess in the first place.

What we need to be doing: Investing in industry that moves us foward. Investing in infra-structure so our bridges stop collapsing. Investing in more mass transit. Investing in getting alternative energy rolling.

The republicans had their run of it for eight years. If you didn't like it you were basically told to shut up and sit down.

Guess what, sauce that is good on goose is also good on gander.
You obviously don't understand the main cause for the credit meltdown. Banks were forced to relax lending as was Fannie & Freddie to increase home ownership. Who was championing that change? Barney Frank & posse (house finance committee). I would like to see how many of the politicians that pushed for relaxed standard some how ended up with very big investments in mortgage backed hedge funds ( cough cough John Edwards to name one)??

By the way I am not a republican nor a democrat. I thought I had made that pretty clear by now? :confused:

This is a big part of the problem. This is not a Dem. vs. Rep. battle, it never was. That is a facade that people sucker into every time. It is politico vs. average citizen. What is right and wrong based upon what this country was founded upon.
 
R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
It does not take much more than a brain stem though to see that this "stimulus" package will do nothing but increase the size of the govenment. This spending is over and above the current budget (which is out of control). We don't fix debt economic problems by spending more. All they are doing is printing money backed by bad debts.
This is the exact paradox I'm referring to. If we leave it to the government, the country will fail. If we leave it to the people, the country will fail. If we find a middle ground, a large enough portion will be alienated and the country will fail.
 
annunaki

annunaki

Moderator
Letting the free market system work its' self out? That is what got us into this mess in the first place.

What we need to be doing: Investing in industry that moves us foward. Investing in infra-structure so our bridges stop collapsing. Investing in more mass transit. Investing in getting alternative energy rolling.

The republicans had their run of it for eight years. If you didn't like it you were basically told to shut up and sit down.

Guess what, sauce that is good on goose is also good on gander.
Also, the government should NOT be 'investing' in any industry. We don't have a socialist republic. If industry fails it fails, that includes banking institutions, auto makers, etc.
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
I'm always amused at how little is known about politics. (sorry my friends, this is getting ridiculous)

If anyone still thinks being a politician is about public service is just kidding themselves.
Those that desperately cling to their party affiliations are simple naive.

While both parties have their good points; they are points used against us, to simply "Divide and Conquer."

Politics is: Fooling most of the people, most of the time.

So, I'll ask again: As a tax payer-
Is anyone the least bit uncomfortable with the fact: The senate and congress voted on a spending bill, the biggest in history, and didn't read it before they voted on it?
 
annunaki

annunaki

Moderator
I'm always amused at how little is known about politics. (sorry my friends, this is getting ridiculous)

If anyone still thinks being a politician is about public service is just kidding themselves.
Those that desperately cling to their party affiliations are simple naive.

While both parties have their good points; they are points used against us, to simply "Divide and Conquer."

Politics is: Fooling most of the people, most of the time.

So, I'll ask again: As a tax payer-
Is anyone the least bit uncomfortable with the fact: The senate and congress voted on a spending bill, the biggest in history, and didn't read it before they voted on it?
I would say that is a big PROBLEM!
 
Now Slappy

Now Slappy

Audioholic
So, I'll ask again: As a tax payer-
Is anyone the least bit uncomfortable with the fact: The senate and congress voted on a spending bill, the biggest in history, and didn't read it before they voted on it?

Amen! Although, I can't say it surprises me.

Hell, I've been uncomfortable for a while...but now I'm just down right scared. Hasn't anyone realized that those in power don't care about the average citizen one iota?
 
unreal.freak

unreal.freak

Senior Audioholic
The only big things I remember about Clinton's administration is that:

1. We weren't in two wars
2. We were running a budget surplus

I wish we could have kept up that....
Those are only 2 of the things that were good about ole Billy boy :p

He gave me more laughs with his humidor follies than George Bush did with his speech follies. :D

Everyone should have sympathized with him with the Lewinsky deal, if you were married to Hillary, you may have done the same or worse.;)

The only real thing that kept me from liking Bill was the fact that he told blatant lies....other than that and the fact he was a draft dodger, he was cool with me :D

Peace,
Tommy
 
unreal.freak

unreal.freak

Senior Audioholic
This is the exact paradox I'm referring to. If we leave it to the government, the country will fail. If we leave it to the people, the country will fail. If we find a middle ground, a large enough portion will be alienated and the country will fail.
You better hope it dont fail, if it does we will all go over to your home country and take it out in similar fashion next...:D:D:p

Peace,
Tommy
 
R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
You better hope it dont fail, if it does we will all go over to your home country and take it out in similar fashion next...:D:D:p
The U.S. is my home country, but it's nice having a backup. Especially Italy as it functions even when no government is present :D

I do not sympathize with Bill Clinton over the Lewinsky fiasco. He was the flipping president and Monica was the best he could do?
 
unreal.freak

unreal.freak

Senior Audioholic
I do not sympathize with Bill Clinton over the Lewinsky fiasco. He was the flipping president and Monica was the best he could do?
So true, but she was head (no pun intended) and shoulders over Hillary...LOL

Peace,
Tommy
 
Tarub

Tarub

Senior Audioholic
At the start of the inaugural Luncheon at the Capitol right after the historic Inauguration.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
After watching that several times I think Hillary just missed her que and Bill was just trying to get a little. If that's not enough of a hijack let me ask if anybody knows how Bill and Hillary met?

They both dated the same girl in high school.:D

And yes I think somebody should have read the thing.:rolleyes:
Not me but definitely somebody. I'm busy.:p
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Those are only 2 of the things that were good about ole Billy boy :p

He gave me more laughs with his humidor follies than George Bush did with his speech follies. :D

Everyone should have sympathized with him with the Lewinsky deal, if you were married to Hillary, you may have done the same or worse.;)

The only real thing that kept me from liking Bill was the fact that he told blatant lies....other than that and the fact he was a draft dodger, he was cool with me :D

Peace,
Tommy
A budget surplus and not being in two wars probably are about the only two things you need to be remembered as a good president nowadays:D
 
itschris

itschris

Moderator
Has everyone forgotten the extraordinary events that took place on 9/11? I understand many of you hate Bush, think he's the devil, and all that, but at least be able to give some credit where it's due.

The fact that our economy survivied, rebounded, and flourished as it did after what happen is an amazing testiment to the people of this country and the administration for providing the leadership, security, and confidence that we needed at that time. It was an absolute pleasure to see everyone in this country put their personal politics aside for the good of our country. Poll after poll after poll showed that it was the President who brought feelings of confidence and security after those events. You can argue about the war all day long and hindsight is wonderful, but the fact remains that despite organized concerted efforts, there were no additional attacks. Just give a little credit for that.

I've heard so many people argue, it's only been a 3 weeks give Obama a chance. Well for Christ's sake, he's already done so much in these 3 weeks, that you have to start scratching your head and begin questioning motives, agenda, as well as the performance of what's taken place. The market has not reacted well at all to the stimulus package and the continued to decline as facts emerged and tanked on the day of signing. People who understand this stuff have already figured out that any benefit will be short term and short lived and that much of the debt is going towards non-essential, non-growth projects. Obama's assertion that "most economists agree" with him is an outright falsehood. I believe there are now more than 200 Nobel Laureate economists who have signed on against this plan because such plans have never once worked in modern history. Infastructure simply does not work as a foundation to create growth and wealth. It doesn't work.

Now, there's talk of Stimulous Package 2 coming down the pike.

I have yet to hear the President say anything positive about the state of the country.... anything to give the average concerned citizen hope. When the initial machine begins to faulter, it is the confidence level of the consumer which sustains things, which puts a floor on the decline. If you erode that, your downside becomes open ended. I have never heard of any President hedge every decision they make by stating, "it's going to get a lot worse" and use fear inspiring words like 'castastrophe" and "calamity" over and over and over again in every media event where this is discussed. I just find the whole thing quite strange. It's like he's setting a safety net for himself for when it all fails.

Add to this some of the other things like politicization of the census which is just unbelievable, how poorly his cabinet picks have gone, the fact that he flew Airforce One to Denver to sign the Stimulus Bill (and Joe Biden took Airforce Two btw) rather than just signing it in the Rose Garden as customary, it just looks like he's not up to the task to me. That once he's beyond the teleprompter and the reach of the handlers, he faulters and shows his lack of judgement.

I swear I hope I'm wrong about everything I do. But think about this...there is a phenomenon called stagflation which in very basic terms means that prices are going up while the economy is going down. It's a very very difficult push/pull effect that's difficult to overcome. We experienced this in the mid 70's due to the spike in oil prices. To put it simply, it's the control of the money supply that prevents us from reaching that point and getting out should we get there. However, due to this massive stimulus package the liberals raced to cram down America's throat, we will be printing money like there's no tomorrow. What does that do? It floods the money supply... the exact opposite of what restarts the engine.

Because of my job, I look at this stuff all day long and talk to people a 100 times smarter than me. It's times like this where I wish I didn't know what I know. I honestly wish I was not an analyst and knew nothing of finance and economics. For the first time in my adult life, I'm have very doubtful feelings about what the future holds in the next 5-20 years. I just don't know where we'll be as a country. I don't like politicizing things but I hope that the GOP get their act together for a change, and can take back the Congress and repeal a good chunk of this nonesense before it does too much damage. I don't know if that will happen since Republicans are simply inept at relaying their message and have drifted from the core values of conservativism. My wish would be that middle leaning dems will eventually start distancing themselves from the far left style of government and that the Republicans will advance an agenda that can be inclusive of that group.
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
A budget surplus and not being in two wars probably are about the only two things you need to be remembered as a good president nowadays:D
No, he was only in one war. Boy, I'll remember that. But partisan politics is passe, now, jinjuku. Now your job is to figure out just how to pay for this $3 trillion and growing spending spree. Pucker up and kiss that tax rate goodbye.
 
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