Newb needs some help: speaker size

[shadyJ]

The subject of horn or controlled dispersion (CD) speakers is complex. I find it difficult to understand mainly because I prefer speakers with wide dispersion, not limited dispersion. A good dispersion pattern, in my view, is a key ingredient to a good listening experience. Wide dispersion is one of the features that frees musicians from the confines of the loudspeakers and creates the image of musicians floating in a convincing acoustic space.

I talked (OK, ranted) about this a few years ago. You might find it interesting to read that thread: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/what’s-the-deal-with-speakers-with-horns.85105/. It sums up my views on the subject, as well as those of various others.

There have been a number of DIY kits designed by Jeff Bagby, featuring SEOS horns. (I forget what SEOS stands for.) I haven’t heard these, but Jeff Bagby is a respected DIY designer, so I can’t rule them out just because I don't like horns.

You might consider that your own bias against horns reinforces your experiences. If you expect a horn to sound a certain way, that expectation will color your perception. I have heard all kinds of speakers sound great, and that is partly why I enjoy learning about speaker design; there are so many different ways to make something sound good. I have heard a bunch of different SEOS designs and they do sound very good, but they are not the only horns that have sounded good, at least to me. I take your point about wide dispersion, and of course Toole and Olive's work has shown many people have a preference for such a dispersion pattern, but horns can have dispersion patterns of different widths, although I don't know if the acoustic loading allows for as wide a dispersion pattern as something like the Salon2s.

 

[Bucknekked]

Thank you for the explanation, Swerd.

For what it's worth, a friend of mine was going to sell me his Klipsch speakers and brought them over with some others and I was not impressed with the tone of them. Even he had to admit that my ancient JBL's (that he likes to make fun of) outclassed his Klipsch speakers pretty handily. That demo was half the reason I decided to keep the JBL's instead of offing them when I got the Tempests. At that point, if similar speakers to his at that price range were going to fall in the same performance, sound wise, I would have just stuck with what I had and saved the $.

The JBL's have a more normal sized tweeter, but still with a small waveguide sort of arrangement that's sort of a horn, but not quite.

View attachment 19710

I love the old school look. JBL's were making speakers (great ones) long before most of the folks on this forum were born. They went mass market for a while and sold their souls for a buck, but I believe they are making a comeback with some seriously good offerings again. I believe Klipsch suffered the same sellout. They made some of the best speakers in the world, but to get a mass market following required mass market prices and that's why they aren't what they used to be. Sigh. Thank goodness others have stepped up and stepped in and we probably have more affordable great audio choices today than at any time.

 

[Bucknekked]

The subject of horn or controlled dispersion (CD) speakers is complex. I find it difficult to understand mainly because I prefer speakers with wide dispersion, not limited dispersion. A good dispersion pattern, in my view, is a key ingredient to a good listening experience. Wide dispersion is one of the features that frees musicians from the confines of the loudspeakers and creates the image of musicians floating in a convincing acoustic space.

I talked (OK, ranted) about this a few years ago. You might find it interesting to read that thread: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/what’s-the-deal-with-speakers-with-horns.85105/. It sums up my views on the subject, as well as those of various others.

There have been a number of DIY kits designed by Jeff Bagby, featuring SEOS horns. (I forget what SEOS stands for.) I haven’t heard these, but Jeff Bagby is a respected DIY designer, so I can’t rule them out just because I don't like horns.

SWERD:
I did DIY back in the day. I bought some plans for a transmission line design and spent a summer with my grandfather in his woodshop building them. We finished them in a walnut veneer and they looked awesome. Because I invested an entire summer in building them, they sounded awesome too. In retrospect, and having listened to a lot of other systems, my transmission lines actually weren't that great. Their downfall was Radio Shack components inside. But for the time I owned them, I was high and mighty. A friend of mine was so enamored with them he bought them from me at a time I needed some cash. That cash helped me move to what would become my future so it was a fair trade.

 

[Bucknekked]

You might consider that your own bias against horns reinforces your experiences. If you expect a horn to sound a certain way, that expectation will color your perception. I have heard all kinds of speakers sound great, and that is partly why I enjoy learning about speaker design; there are so many different ways to make something sound good. I have heard a bunch of different SEOS designs and they do sound very good, but they are not the only horns that have sounded good, at least to me. I take your point about wide dispersion, and of course Toole and Olive's work has shown many people have a preference for such a dispersion pattern, but horns can have dispersion patterns of different widths, although I don't know if the acoustic loading allows for as wide a dispersion pattern as something like the Salon2s.

SHADYJ:
When you speak of our own internal bias, or expectations, coloring our choices you have hit on a major issue for us as humans and how we evaluate our external world. Everything you know, everything you experience, taste, touch, smell and hear comes in through your 5 senses. All of that is contained in that melon between your ears. Literally everything you are and have experienced sits between your ears in that bowl of folded up jello.

There really is no objective reality sitting "out there" that you can relate directly to. Everything comes in through filters. Filters you can't see, but change and subtly alter everything you take in. Your brain literally, not figuratively, creates the world you live in. Think that piece of fruit is orange? Think again. Color is a perceived trait of an item. Outside the confines of your brain, that orange aint orange. Get out an electron scanning microscope: there are no orange atoms. Color, like sound, is a perceived item.

Its what makes sound and music so very individualized and personal. I love a song played by a certain artist. Another listens to the same thing and hears a burlap bag full of cats. One man loves the sound of a horn. The next man runs screaming from the room when he hears one.

In this common forum of sound that we hang out on, there is objective data (thankfully). That objective data becomes the common language and medium we use to relate to each other. Men and women of very different tastes, backgrounds and experiences can communicate on a level playing field if we can all speak some of the objective measurement language that does exist. Everything else is pure entertainment and opinion!

 

[Bucknekked]

The bright sound of a speaker, or the lack of it, warmth of a speaker, is caused by the relative balance between the woofer and tweeter.
Getting balanced sound in a speaker crossover seems to work better (in my limited experience) than if done by external EQ. But it may depend on who does it and how well it gets done.

I'm glad to hear the Tempest sounds good to you, and especially glad it doesn't sound like a Klipsch .

SWERD:

I believe, and I am easily led astray and mistaken, that you have some first hand experience with Salk Speakers. I'm getting down to my short list for a speaker purchase. My chief stumbling block is my 10x10x10 foot dedicated listening room. Its a wonderful thing to have a dedicated space. I count my blessings everytime I sit down for a listen. But a 1,000 cubic foot cube has its limitations. I am in no hurry, but I do have that itch that needs scratchin for a purchase.

Salk makes wonderful stuff according to legend and folklore. Jim Salk answered an email on the same day I sent it, so that reinforces my thought. So the question becomes, given what you know, what would be the selection you would make for my 10x10x10 space for a stereo music listening experience out of the Salk line? Will their SongTower be able to open up and breathe? That's a perfect price for me. But it is a tower. Is their Surround speaker at roughly the same price up to the task?

My other short list choices are the KEF LS50 and the Legacy HD. Prices slightly lower and higher than the Salks. I don't have a brand preference. I don't have a particular leaning either.

Anybody else reading this can chime in too if they wish. I'm not looking for more choices necessarily, I think the 3 on my list will all get it done, but opinions are welcome since I'm still window shopping.

 

[shadyJ]

SHADYJ:
When you speak of our own internal bias, or expectations, coloring our choices you have hit on a major issue for us as humans and how we evaluate our external world. Everything you know, everything you experience, taste, touch, smell and hear comes in through your 5 senses. All of that is contained in that melon between your ears. Literally everything you are and have experienced sits between your ears in that bowl of folded up jello.

There really is no objective reality sitting "out there" that you can relate directly to. Everything comes in through filters. Filters you can't see, but change and subtly alter everything you take in. Your brain literally, not figuratively, creates the world you live in. Think that piece of fruit is orange? Think again. Color is a perceived trait of an item. Outside the confines of your brain, that orange aint orange. Get out an electron scanning microscope: there are no orange atoms. Color, like sound, is a perceived item.

Its what makes sound and music so very individualized and personal. I love a song played by a certain artist. Another listens to the same thing and hears a burlap bag full of cats. One man loves the sound of a horn. The next man runs screaming from the room when he hears one.

In this common forum of sound that we hang out on, there is objective data (thankfully). That objective data becomes the common language and medium we use to relate to each other. Men and women of very different tastes, backgrounds and experiences can communicate on a level playing field if we can all speak some of the objective measurement language that does exist. Everything else is pure entertainment and opinion!

There have been demonstrations where people have comparatively listened to sets of speakers that look nice but had mediocre performance and speakers that looked mediocre but had good performance that were both hidden and then seen. When the speakers were seen, the listeners preferred the sound of the sound of the nice looking speakers, but when hidden, they preferred the sound of the more accurate sounding speakers. I do think this shows something more profound than just blithe assumptions. I think the case may be that our combined senses go through a stage of brain processing (involving knowledge and experience that forms expectation) which alters our perception. So when the speakers were seen, it wasn't just that the listeners somehow mistakenly thought that the nice looking speakers sounded better, but that in the experience of the listeners, those speakers did sound better. It's like a vivid hallucination; just because what you experience is not there in objective reality does not mean that the experience itself is somehow not real.

 

[shadyJ]

SWERD:

I believe, and I am easily led astray and mistaken, that you have some first hand experience with Salk Speakers. I'm getting down to my short list for a speaker purchase. My chief stumbling block is my 10x10x10 foot dedicated listening room. Its a wonderful thing to have a dedicated space. I count my blessings everytime I sit down for a listen. But a 1,000 cubic foot cube has its limitations. I am in no hurry, but I do have that itch that needs scratchin for a purchase.

Salk makes wonderful stuff according to legend and folklore. Jim Salk answered an email on the same day I sent it, so that reinforces my thought. So the question becomes, given what you know, what would be the selection you would make for my 10x10x10 space for a stereo music listening experience out of the Salk line? Will their SongTower be able to open up and breathe? That's a perfect price for me. But it is a tower. Is their Surround speaker at roughly the same price up to the task?

My other short list choices are the KEF LS50 and the Legacy HD. Prices slightly lower and higher than the Salks. I don't have a brand preference. I don't have a particular leaning either.

Anybody else reading this can chime in too if they wish. I'm not looking for more choices necessarily, I think the 3 on my list will all get it done, but opinions are welcome since I'm still window shopping.

Can't go wrong with Salk, Legacy, or KEF. I think anything by Revel would be a good choice too, as their smooth, wide dispersion will play very nicely in that room of yours. Philharmonic looks like a great choice too. Also consider Ascend Acoustics Sierra2 speakers, which by all accounts are excellent.

 

[MrBoat]

This is why it's good sometimes, not to know 'too' much. I was highly skeptical of the SEOS design I chose. It's unlike anything I have ever listened to in a home setting, just by the way it looks. It's neither complicated looking, or expensive enough for starters.

I love the old school look. JBL's were making speakers (great ones) long before most of the folks on this forum were born. They went mass market for a while and sold their souls for a buck, but I believe they are making a comeback with some seriously good offerings again. I believe Klipsch suffered the same sellout. They made some of the best speakers in the world, but to get a mass market following required mass market prices and that's why they aren't what they used to be. Sigh. Thank goodness others have stepped up and stepped in and we probably have more affordable great audio choices today than at any time.

You, like me, probably also remember when there was a huge difference between affordable audio equipment and not. The sound quality was as day and night as the prices. There was really no middle ground.

These days, it's pretty much good enough, and better. With the latter seeming nearly infinite. At some point though, the cost of which, can make it more economically viable to just design a home around audio quality and go backwards from there instead. Some people have in a pair of speakers, worth well more than what my home is. For what some people have in their equipment alone, I could bulldoze this place, start over and still be ahead.

 

[Swerd]

Yes, I’m the leading Salk fan-boy here at Audioholics . I’ve owned a DIY 2-way (the Dennis Murphy-designed CAOW1, essentially the same as the Salk SongSurround I) for over 10 years, SongTowers since 2007, and just recently Salk Veracity ST which have replaced the SongTowers.

All the speakers designed by Dennis Murphy that I've heard share a balanced and neutral overall sound, great clarity through out the mid range, and they generate the best imaging and sound stage I've known. I've known Dennis Murphy for over 10 years, and everything I say about his designs also applies to his own lower-priced speaker line Philharmonic Audio.

Salk makes wonderful stuff according to legend and folklore. Jim Salk answered an email on the same day I sent it, so that reinforces my thought. So the question becomes, given what you know, what would be the selection you would make for my 10x10x10 space for a stereo music listening experience out of the Salk line? Will their SongTower be able to open up and breathe? That's a perfect price for me. But it is a tower. Is their Surround speaker at roughly the same price up to the task?

It can be hard to give a simple answer to your 10×10×10 foot room question, as so much of bass response depends on where you sit and where the speakers are located.

What was Jim Salk's answer to this question? He has a lot of experience with these types of questions, so you might want to phone him. Yes, he does answer.

What speakers do you now listen to in that room? What do they lack, and what improvements are you looking for?

I would put the SongTower first on your list. Although my family room is larger, these speakers play well at low and high volumes. They don’t seem to require space to open up. The transmission line bass seems less prone to room position effects than other speakers I’ve known.

Next, I would suggest the SongBird. It’s also a transmission line tower, same mid range sound, but with one mid woofer, not two. The price is lower.

And finally I’d suggest, the SongSurround I. As I mentioned above, it’s essentially the same as the DIY I built. The drivers are the same as in the SongBird, but the cabinet is smaller and has a bass reflex port. It does bass down to about 50 Hz. The price is even lower than the SongBird.

None of these Salks require great amplifier power. Anything that delivers an honest 50 watts per channel (at 8 ohms, etc.) will be enough. More is better, but not required.

My other short list choices are the KEF LS50 and the Legacy HD. Prices slightly lower and higher than the Salks. I don't have a brand preference. I don't have a particular leaning either.

I’ve heard the KEF LS50 and like it. I was able to directly compare it to my DIY CAOW1. They aren’t identical sounding, but I’d say they are in the same class of speaker. The LS50 sells for more than the Salk SSI. I know what I prefer, but I’m an admitted fan-boy .

 

[MrBoat]

The subject of horn or controlled dispersion (CD) speakers is complex. I find it difficult to understand mainly because I prefer speakers with wide dispersion, not limited dispersion. A good dispersion pattern, in my view, is a key ingredient to a good listening experience. Wide dispersion is one of the features that frees musicians from the confines of the loudspeakers and creates the image of musicians floating in a convincing acoustic space.

I talked (OK, ranted) about this a few years ago. You might find it interesting to read that thread: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/what’s-the-deal-with-speakers-with-horns.85105/. It sums up my views on the subject, as well as those of various others.

There have been a number of DIY kits designed by Jeff Bagby, featuring SEOS horns. (I forget what SEOS stands for.) I haven’t heard these, but Jeff Bagby is a respected DIY designer, so I can’t rule them out just because I don't like horns.

I kind of enjoyed reading that thread. There were a lot of things mentioned that I have since discovered via firsthand experience.

Would I recommend such a speaker as the SEOS design to anyone else? No. Mostly because I don't know enough about why I like them. Secondly, I would not recommend any speaker I like. Why? Because there are way too many variables and personal subjectivities at stake. My advice would be to audition brands/styles personally, and that, no matter how much I thought I knew.

I will say this much though. Since using the Tempests, I am listening to a lot more music that I would not have otherwise. More than anything though, knowing myself and my perfectionist ways, I am glad that I do not know too much about the inner workings of audio quality and that is probably where I am going to leave it for not wanting to spoil it.

Still, I am thankful for you folks that are so personally invested and that share your findings. If not for that, the person that suggested the Tempests to me would not have been able to read into my desires, otherwise.

 

[Bucknekked]

There have been demonstrations where people have comparatively listened to sets of speakers that look nice but had mediocre performance and speakers that looked mediocre but had good performance that were both hidden and then seen. When the speakers were seen, the listeners preferred the sound of the sound of the nice looking speakers, but when hidden, they preferred the sound of the more accurate sounding speakers. I do think this shows something more profound than just blithe assumptions. I think the case may be that our combined senses go through a stage of brain processing (involving knowledge and experience that forms expectation) which alters our perception. So when the speakers were seen, it wasn't just that the listeners somehow mistakenly thought that the nice looking speakers sounded better, but that in the experience of the listeners, those speakers did sound better. It's like a vivid hallucination; just because what you experience is not there in objective reality does not mean that the experience itself is somehow not real.

This is a great topic. I am shaking my head in agreement. Unfortunately I am typing on my phone and that means I am you lazy to keep typing. Two thumbs up.

 

[Bucknekked]

?
What was Jim Salk's answer to this question? He has a lot of experience with these types of questions, so you might want to phone him. Yes, he does answer.

What speakers do you now listen to in that room? What dIt's hereo they lack, and what improvements are you looking for?

.

Swerd
The room in question has the Klipsch speakers in it we have been measuring and discussing in this thread. A pair of RB 61s and a Klipsch sub. What do they lack? I have had them for a long time. Probably 8 years. So for one thing, I have just lost that lovin feeling. After auditioning some over the top Linns and Wilson Audio, I know I can do a lot better. But, I cant spend Wilson Audio or even Linn cash.

I would like more even performance. Less intense at the high end and a smoother midrange. Better bass management. Larger stereo sweetspot. Most of the issues don't show in the REW data with the exception of the bass hump and dropout.

Jim Salk replied in a general sense with Songtower. But it was without any specifics regarding the room.

I would love it if the Song towers were the answer. Eliminates the subwoofer. Smashing looking speakers. And if I move them out to the main part of the house they will carry their weight.

Window shopping is such great fun though. Where else can you get someone to recommend nano-sanctification as a needed feature? Only in a place where buzzwords fly like the wind.

 

[MrBoat]

There have been demonstrations where people have comparatively listened to sets of speakers that look nice but had mediocre performance and speakers that looked mediocre but had good performance that were both hidden and then seen. When the speakers were seen, the listeners preferred the sound of the sound of the nice looking speakers, but when hidden, they preferred the sound of the more accurate sounding speakers. I do think this shows something more profound than just blithe assumptions. I think the case may be that our combined senses go through a stage of brain processing (involving knowledge and experience that forms expectation) which alters our perception. So when the speakers were seen, it wasn't just that the listeners somehow mistakenly thought that the nice looking speakers sounded better, but that in the experience of the listeners, those speakers did sound better. It's like a vivid hallucination; just because what you experience is not there in objective reality does not mean that the experience itself is somehow not real.

To the contrary, I listened to my DIY speakers first, before deciding on the finish. I have decided they should get (actually they're already clad, waiting on topcoats as I type this) dressed in cherry, which is nice, yet not too extravagant for my humble abode.

 

[MrBoat]

SWERD:
I did DIY back in the day. I bought some plans for a transmission line design and spent a summer with my grandfather in his woodshop building them. We finished them in a walnut veneer and they looked awesome. Because I invested an entire summer in building them, they sounded awesome too. In retrospect, and having listened to a lot of other systems, my transmission lines actually weren't that great. Their downfall was Radio Shack components inside. But for the time I owned them, I was high and mighty. A friend of mine was so enamored with them he bought them from me at a time I needed some cash. That cash helped me move to what would become my future so it was a fair trade.

I have done a fair bit of DIY, and the component offerings of the time were affordably, novel at best. Things have come a long way since affordable CNC and mainstream computerization came about. Now we can buy professional quality components at a relatively fair price, without having inside connections in the industry. I admit being hesitant at first, because where I left off with audio back in the day, Radio Shack was about all there was for people like us, or some other J.C. Whitney type equivalent that sort of looks like the real thing but isn't.

Now we have access to almost the same/similar components that the top names do. And now with the internet, we share the same channels as many of the rock stars of technology do, who often share the things that keep them up at night, just because we will talk to them about it, with interest.

 

[Swerd]

The room in question has the Klipsch speakers in it we have been measuring and discussing in this thread. A pair of RB 61s and a Klipsch sub.

Yes, that was the original thread topic which got derailed some time ago. If I remember, I helped with that .

What do they lack? I have had them for a long time. Probably 8 years. So for one thing, I have just lost that lovin feeling. After auditioning some over the top Linns and Wilson Audio, I know I can do a lot better. But, I cant spend Wilson Audio or even Linn cash.

Few of us can… or should .

I would like more even performance. Less intense at the high end and a smoother midrange. Better bass management. Larger stereo sweetspot. Most of the issues don't show in the REW data with the exception of the bass hump and dropout.

I'm confident in saying the SongTower will easily do all that.

Jim Salk replied in a general sense with Songtower. But it was without any specifics regarding the room.

I would love it if the Song towers were the answer. Eliminates the subwoofer. Smashing looking speakers. And if I move them out to the main part of the house they will carry their weight.

Window shopping is such great fun though. Where else can you get someone to recommend nano-sanctification as a needed feature? Only in a place where buzzwords fly like the wind.

Jim Salk recommending the SongTower is easy to believe and to predict. Their footprint is small and they won't physically or acoustically overwhelm your room.

When I first heard them, sometime in the spring of 2007, it took me about 10 seconds to realize I had to have them. I hadn't known I was shopping for new speakers at the time – they had such an affect on me .

You should order a pair. You'll thank me later.

I'm in Maryland, not far from Washington, DC. If you're at all nearby and want to hear some Salk stuff, including the SongTowers, just ask.

 

[MrBoat]

Yes, that was the original thread topic which got derailed some time ago. If I remember, I helped with that

The best topics end up being the derailed ones, just for the bump value alone.

 

[Bucknekked]

So far on this most excellent discussion, derailed or sidetracked or not, I am close to getting what I originally sought : opinions on whether bookshelves, bookshelves + a sub, or should be the next speakers be towers and screw the subs.

Bookshelves or towers was my original query. Along the way we've talked about what I have installed now, what the room is like, and what some of the problems I'm trying to solve are. I couldn't have asked for a better discussion along the way. Truly informative and for the most part, largely as objective as any discussion about audio can be.

So far, I have a solid recommendation for bookshelves + sub in an SVS solution. One of our members is a solid and satisfied SVS owner and gives this two thumbs up. Audioholics has reviewed these products favorably. That's a solution that fits the problem very neatly.

Additionally, I have a solid recommendation for a set of towers. Also from someone that's owns the specific Salk tower products and can give them two thumbs up. Audioholics has also reviewed the Salk favorably. That's a solution that fits the problem as well.

I also have a couple of honorable mentions from KEF LS 50 owners, although none that had the fervor of the SVS and Salk solutions. What I am most surprised at I guess is no votes or love for the Legacy HD. Some folks mentioned them, but nobody came out of the closet as an owner with their thumbs raised.

I will leave the thread open for anyone who wants to toss in opinions. I think the lead time on ordering Salk equipment is 40 days or so until they will be received. I think the SVS stuff is available immediately. I am not in a hurry. I will enjoy the actual deciding. No knee jerk reaction or impulse purchase this time around.

Short of someone coming in with a dynamic and impressive recommendation other than KEF, Salk or SVS, I shall noodle between my recommended choices and after the turn of the year, place an order.
Thanks to the community for making this choosing an enjoyable and informative experience.

 

[lovinthehd]

I think you should also check out the offerings of Ascend Acoustics (and they can bundle packages with Rythmik subs). The Sierra-1 and Sierra-2 are very good speakers (even the 170SE is a very good speaker). The Sierra Towers are very nice, too. I've had nothing but great experiences with Ascend and their products. Just another option for you to consider.

So far on this most excellent discussion, derailed or sidetracked or not, I am close to getting what I originally sought : opinions on whether bookshelves, bookshelves + a sub, or should be the next speakers be towers and screw the subs.

Bookshelves or towers was my original query. Along the way we've talked about what I have installed now, what the room is like, and what some of the problems I'm trying to solve are. I couldn't have asked for a better discussion along the way. Truly informative and for the most part, largely as objective as any discussion about audio can be.

So far, I have a solid recommendation for bookshelves + sub in an SVS solution. One of our members is a solid and satisfied SVS owner and gives this two thumbs up. Audioholics has reviewed these products favorably. That's a solution that fits the problem very neatly.

Additionally, I have a solid recommendation for a set of towers. Also from someone that's owns the specific Salk tower products and can give them two thumbs up. Audioholics has also reviewed the Salk favorably. That's a solution that fits the problem as well.

I also have a couple of honorable mentions from KEF LS 50 owners, although none that had the fervor of the SVS and Salk solutions. What I am most surprised at I guess is no votes or love for the Legacy HD. Some folks mentioned them, but nobody came out of the closet as an owner with their thumbs raised.

I will leave the thread open for anyone who wants to toss in opinions. I think the lead time on ordering Salk equipment is 40 days or so until they will be received. I think the SVS stuff is available immediately. I am not in a hurry. I will enjoy the actual deciding. No knee jerk reaction or impulse purchase this time around.

Short of someone coming in with a dynamic and impressive recommendation other than KEF, Salk or SVS, I shall noodle between my recommended choices and after the turn of the year, place an order.
Thanks to the community for making this choosing an enjoyable and informative experience.

 

[MrBoat]

At least you've already tried smaller speakers in that space. That was the perplexing part for me was being afraid of being caught with not enough. I did get to try bookshelf speakers and even desktop pc speakers as well.

I have a set of Harman Kardon soundstick2 desktop speakers which are tiny, comparatively, and I was amazed at how much sound they filled this room with and how much bass the tiny sub provided for music. The JBL's are ridiculous in just about every way, but I still end up using it because it's there. Same with the Tempests. Pure, unadulterated, overkill. And still, I can be caught all hours of the night throttling them up to where when people stop by, I have no idea they were ever at the door until I get an angry text the next day.

In this roughly 12x22 space (8ft ceiling) I reside in, I know I could have done well with healthy bookshelf sized speakers and subs, and probably arrived at perfection most efficiently with some extra top end performance to boot. Actually, I'm pretty sure that even quality bookshelf speakers could be overkill here, with so much about modern audio having surprised me thus far.

Just last night, I was listening (still with the JBL full range, which are rated down to 35hz) to a cut by keyboardist Jimmy McGriff, and it had bass notes so low, that it was rattling the DRYWALL and attic access cover in my hallway and not turned up very loud and the drywall is not loose in there. I'm actually considering adding weather strip to the bedroom doors and attic access, so that they don't vibrate in their openings, if that is to be a byproduct of larger sealed (12") subwoofers I am planning on adding.

Finally, I have discovered, with my short time on this forum, that I am completely unqualified to offer anything of 'practical' value with regard to audio these days. Other than I tend to choose loud speakers with healthy midrange punch, that don't distort even to the extremes of humane levels. That after 40 years of being a seeker of good sounding music, that this is all I got. lol

 

[ski2xblack]

Starting with the room of cubic dimensions, let's talk bass. Common dimensions will unfortunately excite the same modal frequencies, which makes cubic rooms a tough nut to crack. The small room will also exhibit significant reinforcement in the lower octaves, typically following a 12 db upward slope below 40 hz or so.

Salk SongTowers/SongBirds are low Q, non-resonant bass alignments. They have very tight, dry, resolved sound character. Their gentle roll off and useful output down low should combine with your room's reinforcement to provide excellent bass extension, but the modes will be an issue. Perhaps some corner bass traps would help tame things in the modal frequencies. (A small, cube shaped room is probably the only situation where I would suggest treatments such as bass traps. You can test this out right now, with the speakers you have, by simply stuffing comforters and pillows in the corners and taking some measurement sweeps to compare the results.)

If you went with smaller speakers and subs, then you should seriously consider at least a pair of subs for the sake of modal smoothing. They would not have to be heavy hitters by any means, given the small room. A simple sealed 12" sub of the Dayton variety starts to roll off at about 35 hz, at 12 db/oct, which, given the cabin reinforcement, a pair should yield flat output down to the mid to low 20's.

If you go the sub/sat route, I personally would choose the KEFs or Salk Surrounds. (I haven't heard the others, so this comment isn't to disparage them, but I have heard Salks and KEF ls50, and could easily live with either.)

The KEF's sport very good polars, which is important since your situation will necessarily involve local acoustics to a high degree. None of the speakers are bad, but the coaxial design of the KEFs has a leg up in this department.