New bookself speakers dont play good enouph

[killbill13]

Hello. https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/İs-my-subwoofer-faulty.115849/. My setup is this, check out info. And audyssey settings.
The left speaker is has 29cm distance from back wall, the right 27. The center something like this.

My sources are netflix(ultra hd) for movies and apple music(paid account) for music.

1) netflix doesnt play loud at all. My volume is at 83-86 out of 98 i think. I am pushing the volume to its limits almost. Is this correct to raise it so loud?

2)apple music plays some louder, something like 75/98 i think. But still the result at high volume is some “muddy” i think.
Any help plz?

 

[Pogre]

How high off the ground are those speakers? The tweeters should be about ear height. Did you run a proper setup? You have Audyssey, right? A good subwoofer might help things too, allowing your speakers to play more cleanly at louder volumes. What kind of a crossover are you using? How far away do you sit?

 

[Pogre]

A throw rug in front of your setup might go a long way too. Is there a doorway to the right? I'd want my speakers spread a little further apart and up higher too. You might even consider moving some stuff around and relocating your setup. Also try a higher crossover.

 

[killbill13]

The tweeters are not on my ear height, they are 30-50cm lower, depends how i seat. What am i gonna do now buy bases? Or different tower speakers and put to the ground?
Audyssey multEQ XT., yes. Need help for the 4 5 6 position, it says 60cm max away from 1st postion? So that makes them preety close? Well this isnt the issue, i got same values with 3 positions too.

My crossover is set to max on the subwoofer(is this the lpf filter?) and at 80hz at the application on the 3 speakers (left right and center) i dont have surround speakers.
Subwoofer mode LFE , LPF for LFE 120hz on the menu of the amp , i couldnt find on the audyssey app.
The distances are on the link 1#post, i have picture from audyssey. Genrerally 2.7- 2.8 meters from speakers.

What is this throw rug tour are talking? Can you show with picture? My english not that good. I cant spread them more, i can place the right speaker, 3meters away from tv, and it will go away on the other corner of them room, with a 10meter cable.

Yes dooorway to the right and in front of the left speaker another one. Check out the second picture you can see it.

Higher crossover than 80hz? Both center and 2 speakers are the same setting.

 

[Pogre]

Higher crossover than 80hz? Both center and 2 speakers are the same setting.

Yes, higher than 80 hz. Yes, I'd recommend stands for your speakers so the tweeters are at ear height. That's going to make a pretty big difference, imo. Here's what I mean by a throw rug.

That will help absorb early reflections that you're getting from that tile floor. Might help clean things up. The rug, a higher crossover and raising your speakers up should help quite a bit.

 

[killbill13]

They are very ugly. Bases are going the the tile or to the furniture?
This speakers are front ported, do i need this to avoid walls? The first post i say the distance from wall.
Crossover from 80 to 100? Both center and the L R speakers? From audyssey app?

 

[Pogre]

They are very ugly. Bases are going the the tile or to the furniture?
This speakers are front ported, do i need this to avoid walls? The first post i say the distance from wall.
Crossover from 80 to 100? Both center and the L R speakers? From audyssey app?

Well, you don't have to get those exact stands. I just posted the first image I found to give you an idea of what's available. Front ported speakers will tend to behave a little better than rear ported when closer to a wall. Almost any speaker is going to perform better the further from the wall you can get. Not everyone has the room tho, I wish I could pull mine out a little more too, but we work with what we have sometimes.

You have a hard tile floor. The sound from your speakers is bouncing off your floor and walls as well as coming directly from your speakers before reaching you. This can muddy up the sound because it changes how it reaches your ear. A throw rug in from of your speakers will absorb that and prevent some of that bounciness from happening. If you have a thick blanket or something you can experiment by spreading it out on the floor and see if it helps. Maybe fold the blanket in half or something.

 

[ryanosaur]

Pogre is on it... you do want the Tweeters to be as close to (or just below) ear level as possible. The soundwaves from the Tweeters are much more directional than lower frequencies from Woofers or Subs.

In terms of clarty of sound, it is common to recommend the Crossover (XO) to start at 80HZ, but important to know is that you also want to consider the lower frequency of your speakers. Example: if your little speakers are rated at 60Hz on the low end, you should consider 100, 110, or 120Hz for the actual XO.

LPF for LFE @120Hz is perfect, no need to change that.

Now the mouse in the room (not an elephant!)... Those speakers are TINY! In a small room with moderate listening distance and SPL (volume), they may be fine, but you will likely have a very difficult time pushing those to Reference level with good quality sound. I hope I am wrong! But is would be worth exploring in the long run, how you can upgrade because my instinct tells me you undersized yourself.

One last note is diffraction. Pogre suggested not just raising the height, but also changing distance between the speakers. IF POSSIBLE, this is a very good idea and will help eliminate the soundwaves diffracting off the TV Screen which may also help you attain better Sound Quality. Also, a Rug or Carpeting on the floor between your Listening Position and the Speakers!

Cheers!

 

[shadyJ]

Guys, it sounds to me like he has a problem with the way gain is being set with certain applications. That is a software problem. He needs to look at what is going on with his source players.

 

[ryanosaur]

Ha, great timing Shady!
I was just looking for more info on his speakers:

Looking at you speakers, @killbill13 , they have decent reported sensitivity at 89 and 91dB for the standmounts and center respectively. I can't help but wonder if there is something else at play in the way you have your gear set up. You should look closely at your sources and make certain you have no volume limitations, or that all cables are attached correctly.
Are you streaming Netflix through your TV or other source?
For apple music, make certain your volumes are turned up... for example, from my computer, connected via ethernet, I always have to adjust apple music volume to make certain it is up higher before it correctly syncs with my AVR. Same again with Tidal, in their App, I have it turned up to 95%, and that is separate from the Computer volume control.
Do you use a BluRay player or and other plug in component like a CD player? How does that perform in comparison?

 

[Pogre]

Now the mouse in the room (not an elephant!)... Those speakers are TINY! In a small room with moderate listening distance and SPL (volume),they may be fine, but you will likely have a very difficult time pushing those to Reference level with good quality sound. I hope I am wrong! But is would be worth exploring in the long run, how you can upgrade because my instinct tells me you undersized yourself.

Yeah, that's also why I recommended a higher crossover. Iirc those are 5" drivers. Based on his comments here and the other thread I'm thinking small and inconspicuous (as opposed to "ugly") is the goal here.

@killbill13, It's tough to have both. If you want louder speakers and better bass you need bigger boxes and better placement. Designers can pull off a couple of tricks here and there that can help, but physics is firmly in charge and physics says louder and deeper means bigger. You might need to rethink what you consider "ugly" and if it's worth the trade for your sound quality. The things we mentioned will help tho, so give them a try. It might even be enough to make you happy.

 

[killbill13]

My speakers under, they dont have any hole. Just rubber legs. How the base will hold? With any earthquake they will fall down.
Can i turn my speakers upside down?
Can i try them on papers boxes before i buy the bases? If i ever buy....

For the position now. I can move just the right speaker. But it will go 1,5 meter away and it will go to different heighness. Like 40cm more up.
So i will have right and center speaker low and right speaker high.

 

[ryanosaur]

I don't think I saw any information about the type of XO used in your speakers... if it was a L-R 4th order, I would say yes, you could turn them upside down with no change. However, the type of XO built into the speaker, which manages the transition between individual drivers can also have a "tilt" to the sound radiation pattern... in your case, with the tweeter on the bottom, there may be an upwards tilt that the designers are attempting to compensate for by putting the tweeter at the bottom of the cabinet. This is a bit more complex than my skill level, so I cannot give you a very definitive answer. My instinct is that no, you should not turn these speakers upside down.

If you want to experiment with changing the height, you can use books or boxes to do so. It is important to keep the front side of the speaker sticking out a little in front of whatever is below it. This is true for your center channel, too. Push those guys forward so they are just sticking out a little bit. Also, push your TV back a little. With you TV in front of your speaker the way you show it above, that may contribute to some of the problem.

I would urge you to keep your Left/Right speakers on the same level.

 

[Pogre]

Guys, it sounds to me like he has a problem with the way gain is being set with certain applications. That is a software problem. He needs to look at what is going on with his source players.

I still think he can see some pretty significant improvements tho. I find myself having to turn Netflix up usually too, like -10 and I'm at -25 or -30 for tv and youtube so I guess I didn't think much of it. Plus there's the "muddy sound" issue at higher volumes.

Did you see his other thread about his subwoofer?

 

[lovinthehd]

Hard to know what you mean by loud, but at the numbers you cited if calibrated should be pretty loud! To share with us you'd need to measure spl somehow (even a phone app would be better than nothing). In your avr you can raise source level (setup menu-inputs-source level) to get it louder with a lower number on the avr's master volume. I suspect your speakers are limiting, too. The stands with large hollow tubes can be filled with sand for stability, and use something like blu-tac or museum putty to stick the speaker to the top of the stand....

 

[Pogre]

My speakers under, they dont have any hole. Just rubber legs. How the base will hold? With any earthquake they will fall down.

They make them like a pedestal so you can set your speaker right on them, and as HD said you can fill the hollow ones with sand or shot so they're heavier if need be.

I'm also with Ryan on keeping your speakers all the same level. Mismatching the heights and distances will just make a whole new mess, lol. Rule of thumb is to make an equilateral triangle out of you and your speakers, with the tweeters at ear height for best results.

There's some room for error in there and it doesn't have to be PERFECT, but the closer you can get the better.

 

[killbill13]

Hard to know what you mean by loud, but at the numbers you cited if calibrated should be pretty loud! To share with us you'd need to measure spl somehow (even a phone app would be better than nothing). In your avr you can raise source level (setup menu-inputs-source level) to get it louder with a lower number on the avr's master volume. I suspect your speakers are limiting, too. The stands with large hollow tubes can be filled with sand for stability, and use something like blu-tac or museum putty to stick the speaker to the top of the stand....

Why audyssey set -3.5 -4 and -5.5 if my speakers are silent? I have pics on the subwoofer thread check the link up.
When i put the sound at 85 at netflix, its loud enouph for cinema effects. But after 85 the sound becomes crappy.
I saw a western https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4943998/ with Dolby Digital some minutes ago, from sattelite tv, volume at 75 because its night. It was good, i didnt notice muddy sound.
Actually i see this in music, i dont have clarity.
I should take polk audio S15e singature speakers i could have better fate.

 

[lovinthehd]

Kind of odd for a 3.1 setup for Audyssey to set each of the speakers to those levels....have you tried re-running Audyssey at least once? What are the sensitivity ratings of your speakers?

 

[Pogre]

Why audyssey set -3.5 -4 and -5.5 if my speakers are silent? I have pics on the subwoofer thread check the link up.
When i put the sound at 85 at netflix, its loud enouph for cinema effects. But after 85 the sound becomes crappy.
I saw a westrern with Dolby Digital some minutes ago, from sattelite tv, volume at 75 because its night. It was good, i didnt notice muddy sound.
Actually i see this in music, i dont have clarity.
I should take polk audio S15e singature speakers i could have better fate.

I think you replacing that subwoofer and positioning your speakers better will give you more clarity with music.

 

[lovinthehd]

Also keep in mind that various sources may have various levels so differences between Netflix and Apple music wouldn't be all that unusual. Plus, over 85 on the absolute volume scale is quite loud and you could easily be reaching the limits of your speakers.