Need some tips for a new setup of home theater for great room

[russel]

Heyooo!

I have a new house and want to purchase some AV equipment for my great room. The room has prewired ceiling speakers, there's 7 locations, Front R/L, Center, Side R/L and Rear R/L. Previously I used a sound bar, so I'm a bit confused about all the different setups. Since the room has stairs on the right and a sliding door on the left, and the rear part of the room opens to the kitchen, I didn't want to place any speakers on the sides/rear that are on the floor. It's not a theater room or anything, just a great setup for my space. In the front I was planning R/L floor speakers, a center channel and a subwoofer. But I'm not sure what to do with the ceiling speakers.

Can I use ceiling speakers for rear surround?

For the front/side locations, does it make sense to use those for Atmos height, or just have side surround speakers in the ceiling?

 

[shadyJ]

In-ceiling is OK for surrounds, but, as you say, you really want to stay away from them for front left, right, and center. I wouldn't use in-ceiling for both Atmos and regular surrounds though. If you are going for Atmos, some in-walls or wall-mounted speakers for the side and rear surrounds. Else, just stick with 7.1 if you do not want to wall-mount or install in-walls for the side and rear surrounds.

 

[russel]

Ok, thanks for the info. So if I was only going with in ceiling speakers (other than in the front) you'd skip the Atmos and put side and rear channels in the ceiling?

There's no place on the walls to the sides or rear to place speakers, I would have to use stands. For the rear stands might work, behind the couch, but on the sides I feel like they'd be in the way.

 

[shadyJ]

Ok, thanks for the info. So if I was only going with in ceiling speakers (other than in the front) you'd skip the Atmos and put side and rear channels in the ceiling?

There's no place on the walls to the sides or rear to place speakers, I would have to use stands. For the rear stands might work, behind the couch, but on the sides I feel like they'd be in the way.

Correct, it would be best to stay away from both Atmos and bed channel surrounds as an all in-ceiling system. If all you have to work with for surround channels is in-ceilings, make them just side surrounds and rear surrounds and skip Atmos. Don't consider this a big loss, since the front stage is like >90% of the sound of your system. Just try not to compromise on the front stage too much and you can have a killer system.

 

[russel]

Ok, got it. What about speakers? I was thinking of getting these Polk Audio speakers:
Right/Left: SIGNATURE ELITE ES55 ($399/each)
Center: SIGNATURE ELITE ES35 ($349)
Sub: DSWPRO 660wi ($399)

Are those good choices, is these something better for the same price?

Also what receiver is good, I was looking at the Denon AVR-X3700H ($1599), is that too much receiver? Should I go with something cheaper?

 

[Wardog555]

Absolutely never use in ceiling as base layer speakers. There is misinformation from previous posters about this.

The whole purpose of 5.1 etc is to have the surrounds near ear level as the director and sound mixers intended.

Dolby atmos and dts x is the exclusive use for ceiling speakers.

https://www.dolby.com/siteassets/technologies/dolby-atmos/atmos-installation-guidelines-121318_r3.1.pdf

Also don't get the es35. Go for the es30 for two larger drivers over the smaller ones which can and often sound worse.

 

[shadyJ]

Ok, got it. What about speakers? I was thinking of getting these Polk Audio speakers:
Right/Left: SIGNATURE ELITE ES55 ($399/each)
Center: SIGNATURE ELITE ES35 ($349)
Sub: DSWPRO 660wi ($399)

Are those good choices, is these something better for the same price?

Also what receiver is good, I was looking at the Denon AVR-X3700H ($1599), is that too much receiver? Should I go with something cheaper?

I couldn't say much about the Polk Signature series. I love Polk's Reserve and Legend series, but it looks to me like the Signature series has more in common with the Monitor series which I was not a big fan of. In that price range I would be looking at the Monoprice Encore T6 towers if you are after floor-standing speakers. The Polk subwoofer would not be my first choice, or second, or third for that matter. A Monoprice Monolith 10" THX Ultra doesn't cost a whole lot more and will stomp it.

One thing you might try that could make things simpler for you and potentially sound better is just go with a really good full-range front left and right, and skip the sub and center speakers. A pair of Polk Reserve R700s would sound better than a 3.1 front stage setup composed of cheaper individual components. They will have better bass than a cheap sub, and you won't miss the center channel speaker if you are seated in the sweet spot or are seated far enough back. It will be a lot easier to set up as well.

The Denon X3700H is a very good receiver. It would be overkill for something like Polk Signatures however.

 

[shadyJ]

Absolutely never use in ceiling as base layer speakers. There is misinformation from previous posters about this.

The whole purpose of 5.1 etc is to have the surrounds near ear level as the director and sound mixers intended.

Dolby atmos and dts x is the exclusive use for ceiling speakers.

https://www.dolby.com/siteassets/technologies/dolby-atmos/atmos-installation-guidelines-121318_r3.1.pdf

Also don't get the es35. Go for the es30 for two larger drivers over the smaller ones which can and often sound worse.

There is a lot wrong here. 5.1 historically wasn't even mixed as an ear level channel. Most dubbing stages never had surround speakers at ear level. That is pretty much a newer thing that came with Atmos. Even still, I don't see ear level speakers in modern dubbing stages. Bed-layer speakers are usually elevated a bit above that point.

The original poster is not able to use bed layer surrounds in a placement level with the ears. That means either he reserves the ceiling speakers for the rare Atmos mix for some occasional height effects without any bed layer sound support whatsoever, or get actual surround sound which absolutely will be in sound mixes for any movie made in the last 25 years. Traditional 5.1 or 7.1 doesn't really need to be very picky about placement, since its usually just ambient noises with a few effects sounds here and there.

Also, the line about larger drivers sounding worse than smaller ones is pure nonsense.

 

[Wardog555]

There is a lot wrong here. 5.1 historically wasn't even mixed as an ear level channel. Most dubbing stages never had surround speakers at ear level. That is pretty much a newer thing that came with Atmos. Even still, I don't see ear level speakers in modern dubbing stages. Bed-layer speakers are usually elevated a bit above that point.

The original poster is not able to use bed layer surrounds in a placement level with the ears. That means either he reserves the ceiling speakers for the rare Atmos mix for some occasional height effects without any bed layer sound support whatsoever, or get actual surround sound which absolutely will be in sound mixes for any movie made in the last 25 years. Traditional 5.1 or 7.1 doesn't really need to be very picky about placement, since its usually just ambient noises with a few effects sounds here and there.

Also, the line about larger drivers sounding worse than smaller ones is pure nonsense.

Dolby themselves specify 1.2 meter high as the average ear level. And allows 1.25 times the height of the front speakers. It's written in the Dolby atmos for home theater guidelines.
This means 1.2 meter to 1.5 meters high is the maxium you should go. If it's too high it sounds off and not where the sound mix is designed.

Also the comment about the speaker driver I meant was smaller drivers sound worse than larger ones.

Speaker stands are the only option if you unwilling to wall mount.

I have a zero tolerance policy towards ceiling speakers for anything not for Dolby atmos and dts x.

This is about the most accurate placement for the speakers and not about personal preferences which often comprises the experience.

I have heard speakers that are way too high and absolutely hated the experience.

Are you completely unaware of the proper placements as per Dolby specifications?

End of discussion.

 

[shadyJ]

Dolby themselves specify 1.2 meter high as the average ear level. And allows 1.25 times the height of the front speakers. It's written in the Dolby atmos for home theater guidelines.
This means 1.2 meter to 1.5 meters high is the maxium you should go. If it's too high it sounds off and not where the sound mix is designed.

Also the comment about the speaker driver I meant was smaller drivers sound worse than larger ones.

Speaker stands are the only option if you unwilling to wall mount.

I have a zero tolerance policy towards ceiling speakers for anything not for Dolby atmos and dts x.

This is about the most accurate placement for the speakers and not about personal preferences which often comprises the experience.

I have heard speakers that are way too high and absolutely hated the experience.

Are you completely unaware of the proper placements as per Dolby specifications?

End of discussion.

You are talking about a Dobly Atmos setup which the OP can not really accommodate. Also, you seem to be placing a great deal of importance on surround channels, but they aren't really that important. The front stage is >90% of the sound. Surround channels just provide a little bit of extra immersion on top of the front stage. They don't really do much relative to the front stage.

 

[Golfx]

Ok, got it. What about speakers? I was thinking of getting these Polk Audio speakers:
Right/Left: SIGNATURE ELITE ES55 ($399/each)
Center: SIGNATURE ELITE ES35 ($349)
Sub: DSWPRO 660wi ($399)

Are those good choices, is these something better for the same price?

Also what receiver is good, I was looking at the Denon AVR-X3700H ($1599), is that too much receiver? Should I go with something cheaper?

Welcome to our hobby. You struck gold in getting @shadyJ to reply on your questions. He is the Audioholics senior speaker reviewer. I would pay very close attention to his answers. Whatever you decide it will sound much better than a sound bar and BTW congratulations on your new house!

Like Shady recommended put the vast majority of your budget into your front three speakers LCR. But don’t get a cheap center or cheap front speakers. As he said go for the polk reserve R700 for your two towers. You will not regret getting high quality speakers instead of cheaper speakers. These speakers will represent where almost all the quality sound originates. As he said you don’t have to get a center or sub right away. When you do want center an excellent option would be the Polk Legend L400 (which he recommended in his Audioholics review.) Good luck in your journey and decisions. You will learn a lot especially when setting all this up. I think that is one of the main advantages of this hobby.

 

[Wardog555]

Somebody from another forum decided on the svs prime center over the Polk centers. So it might be worth looking into aswell.

One person from another forum site lowered their surrounds from the ceiling and it made a huge difference and now hearing sounds that they never heard before.

Also if your unwilling to have the surrounds down lower to a more appropriate and accurate placement. I will highly suggest you find another room to place your home theater setup for the most accurate experience possible.

Regards.

 

[russel]

Ok, wow! Thanks for all the info!!

If I'm going to blow my whole budget on two R700 speakers, should I just skip surround altogether since it doesn't make sense for my room? Or would some cheaper in ceiling speakers still be worth it?

What receiver do I need if I just have the two R700s?

 

[Mpsafranski]

If you get those Polks I believe the advice would be to not cheap out on the receiver. They don’t have a super benign load and you don’t want a budget receiver. That isn’t to say you need a flagship $4000 receiver but the one you’d mentioned earlier would be a nice choice especially if you consider adding additional speakers.
As for your surrounds, in ceiling isn’t optimal as has been stated, but everyone’s room has different quirks that must be accommodated. And if Shady is giving you the green light on ceiling surrounds, you should feel good about it.

knowing what I’ve learned along my own journey (if you get into this it will be exactly that) is the biggest mistake to make is buy all the speakers at once in the beginning and going cheap. Because let’s face it even going “cheap” ain’t cheap when you’re building a surround system.

from my experience I’d have started with my original budget and gotten two towers and a receiver that would suit future needs. Save up, buy a serious sub such as the monolith shady mentioned although I went SVS. Same some more add the center. Then a second sub. Finally then I’d worry about the surrounds. I wanted it all at once and went with the Elac debut 2.0. It was fantastic and for under a thousand. But within 1.5 years I had more money and was wondering what could make it better hahaha. Ended up going from a $500 front stage to about a $4.5 front stage from Ascend. And now I’m looking at the Revel 228be front stage for my own new house. As I said it’s a journey. Or an illness depending on how you look at it. But better to start with great speakers and add them slowly than buying and replacing everything.

Bottom line just listen to Shady he will steer you right.

 

[shadyJ]

Ok, wow! Thanks for all the info!!

If I'm going to blow my whole budget on two R700 speakers, should I just skip surround altogether since it doesn't make sense for my room? Or would some cheaper in ceiling speakers still be worth it?

What receiver do I need if I just have the two R700s?

If it's not a big project to install the surrounds in your ceiling, it might be worth doing. I wouldn't bother if it would be a huge PIA in your circumstances. As I said, the front stage is so much more important. I would probably just do one pair somewhere behind the listening position, if I were you. As for receiver, as the above poster said, you don't need a super fancy one but at the same time, I would try to do better than an entry-level receiver as well. I would be looking at the AVRs in the $1k range, at the very least. The Denon 3700 that you mentioned is a very good receiver.

If you are leaning in the direction of the R700s, here is a thorough review so you know what you are getting into. It is a really good choice, but it is by no means the only one. Other good alternatives in that price range are the Paradigm Premier 800Fs, pretty much anything from Arendal, Revel Concerto2 series, to name a few off the top of my head.

 

[russel]

Not many stores available locally to buy this stuff. I was looking at Best Buy and they have Bowers & Wilkins 603 S2 tower speakers. They are priced similarly. Are they as good or should I just order the L700s on Amazon?

 

[shadyJ]

Not many stores available locally to buy this stuff. I was looking at Best Buy and they have Bowers & Wilkins 603 S2 tower speakers. They are priced similarly. Are they as good or should I just order the L700s on Amazon?

L700s are the better speaker for sure. The B&Ws will have hotter treble, and some may like that. But you could always just EQ the L700s and boost their treble if you wanted spicy treble. In my opinion, you could order the L700s from Amazon, and there is a good chance you would be happy with them. They are an accurate loudspeaker with not really any shortcomings.

 

[russel]

I found the review of those on this site. Not so great. Guess I’ll buy from Amazon.

 

[Eppie]

Ok, wow! Thanks for all the info!!

If I'm going to blow my whole budget on two R700 speakers, should I just skip surround altogether since it doesn't make sense for my room? Or would some cheaper in ceiling speakers still be worth it?

What receiver do I need if I just have the two R700s?

Some forum members use this ceiling speaker from RSL. At $149 each it doesn't break the bank but performs well. You could run wires for four ceiling speakers and just install two surrounds to start if the budget is tight. You can then add the other two surrounds later.

 

[russel]

I ordered the Polk RC80i ($125/ea), I can return them though if these are significantly better for only $25 more. All of the wires are already run for ceiling speakers so I was planning on doing both rear and side surrounds.