My Rythmik FV18 is Broken. Next steps?

[TLS Guy]

Yeah it will be interesting. I assumed it is the servo board from the instructions, because it is tied directly to the speaker wires. No way to take it off without cutting the wires. As well as the paper work and instructions eluded to it being the servo board. But I could be wrong.

Staggering what some designers do. Who designs in a way a board can't be removed without cutting wires? That is just bad practice. Years ago I had an retired Africana math teacher. When we were doing our work he would come up behind you, and if we had made a "howler" he would put one finger on the howler as he tweaked the hairs in the back of your neck, and pronounce " Say your wretched". he he keep going until you said, "I'm wretched sir, I'm wretched sir!" We all thought it a hoot and frequently imitating him. Anyhow those designers need to be made to "say they are wretched!"

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Staggering what some designers do. Who designs in a way a board can't be removed without cutting wires? That is just bad practice.

Yeah well just buy externally powered subs and never have to worry or complain about it.

 

[lovinthehd]

Is Brian Ding a member here?

 

[TLS Guy]

Yeah well just buy externally powered subs and never have to worry or complain about it.

That will work for ported subs, but not sealed ones or servo subs like the OPs. Sealed subs need Eq below F3, and then a high pass filter to stop driver over excursion. Basically that is what I do, although my long main lines are a sub plus and each requires two power amps as the two drivers do not receive the same signal.
I do understand the convenience of a sub plus amp. It reduces clutter, and also allows for phasing and volume trim and issues like that.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That will work for ported subs, but not sealed ones or servo subs

It works perfectly with both ported and sealed. For example, the RBH 1212N-MS/R, Unrivaled-12NS, Unrivaled-21, and Unrivaled-221 subs are sealed passive subs.

Just no passive for “servo”, which is a gimmick to me. I used to own dual servo subs.

I’ve been using both sealed and ported passive subs for years. Never had one issue with drivers or external amps.

 

[everettT]

They make passive subs for both ported and sealed. For example, the RBH SI-1212 and Unrivaled-21 subs are sealed passive subs.

Just not passive for “servo”, which is a gimmick to me. I used to own dual servo subs.

Servo isn't a gimmick and not it's only used for subwoofer applications, FWIW. I believe what @TLS Guy was saying is , and could be mistaken, that amplification for sealed subs has to have the ability, whether DSP or fixed options, to taylor sound correctly, including extension, meaning you can't just plug in any amp and achieve the desired results. That can happen with ported subs...

 

[TLS Guy]

It works perfectly with both ported and sealed. For example, the RBH 1212N-MS/R, Unrivaled-12NS, Unrivaled-21, and Unrivaled-221 subs are sealed passive subs.

Just no passive for “servo”, which is a gimmick to me. I used to own dual servo subs.

I’ve been using both sealed and ported passive subs for years. Never had one issue with drivers or external amps.

Unless a sealed sub is sold with an active equalizer it will not work well at all.

The F3 of a sealed sub is in the neighborhood of twice the Fs of the driver. So, say we have an really good driver with an fs of 20 Hz, and that is pretty low, then the native F3 of the sub will be around 40 Hz. So sealed subs require an Eq of 12 db per octave below Fs of the driver. The usually there is a high pass limiter at the xmax of the driver to prevent damage.

So selling a passive sub is just nonsense without the correct Eq and likely a high pass.

 

[lovinthehd]

Never considered using my passive diy subs without external amps and eq. Depends on what you want rather than standing on limited definitions

 

[jinjuku]

Just get amps that have DSP built in. Plenty of them out there from the sound reinforcement market (Crown, QSC, Peavey, Behringer, Lab Gruppen etc.).

 

[lovinthehd]

Just get amps that have DSP built in. Plenty of them out there from the sound reinforcement market (Crown, QSC, Peavey, Behringer, Lab Gruppen etc.).

General dsp and servo dsp aren't quite the same thing. are they?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So selling a passive sub is just nonsense without the correct Eq and likely a high pass.

Companies who sell passive subs also sell matching external sub-amps with DSP/EQ. All the RBH passive subs (ported and sealed) have matching sub-amps w/ EQ/DSP.

The main thing is to separate the electronics from the subs to improve reliability and serviceability.

 

[TLS Guy]

Companies who sell passive subs also sell matching external sub-amps with DSP/EQ. All the RBH passive subs (ported and sealed) have matching sub-amps w/ EQ/DSP.

The main thing is to separate the electronics from the subs to improve reliability and serviceability.

I don't see how that achieves anything. You end up with two boxes and more cables. Clutter is one of the major issues causing resistance to home HT.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't see how that achieves anything. You end up with two boxes and more cables. Clutter is one of the major issues causing resistance to home HT.

So you like ONE BOX, but you preach to everyone to buy an AVP and a bunch of amps, instead of ONE AVR?

That’s called DOUBLE STANDARD.

And what happens when the amps/DSP inside the subs and speakers die and they don’t know what to do because they can’t or don’t know how to replace them? They end up spending more money on new equipment. If the digital electronics were separate, they could just replace the electronics.

And you have preached this a thousand times - putting amps “OUTSIDE the box” reduces heat and improves reliability. Or are you suddenly deaf and blind when it comes to this?

 

[everettT]

So you like ONE BOX, but you preach to everyone to buy an AVP and a bunch of amps, instead of ONE AVR?

That’s called DOUBLE STANDARD.

And what happens when the amps/DSP inside the subs and speakers die and they don’t know what to do because they can’t or don’t know how to replace them? They end up spending more money on new equipment. If the digital electronics were separate, they could just replace the electronics.

And you have preached this a thousand times - putting amps “OUTSIDE the box” reduces heat and improves reliability. Or are you suddenly deaf and blind when it comes to this?

What's the difference if the amp channel is attached to the enclosure or it's in a separate box, still the same issue if it fails? I get were you prefer the external amp, thermally speaking, I'm just not sure that is a major issue these days.

I'd rather be down one speaker than 7 or more depending if the amp is multi channel and having the DSP per speaker would (theoretically) likely have more processing power. There is a massive benefit to active speakers, whether the amp is internal or not, but that should have its own thread.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What's the difference if the amp channel is attached to the enclosure or it's in a separate box, still the same issue if it fails?

You’ve never heard people complain about their sub amps die and they can’t replace them and don’t know what to do?

If the sub amps were separate (QSC, Crown, etc.) they could easily replace the amp.

 

[everettT]

You’ve never heard people complain about their sub amps die and they can’t replace them and don’t know what to do?

If the sub amps were separate (QSC, Crown, etc.) they could easily replace the amp.

Well, one sub anp on an Epik Empire failed, and the company was gone. I just used a crown amp to power it and I actually have better performance with my DSP. If I could have found a direct replacement or anything close to fitting, I would have.

 

[everettT]

You’ve never heard people complain about their sub amps die and they can’t replace them and don’t know what to do?

If the sub amps were separate (QSC, Crown, etc.) they could easily replace the amp.

Young people and some of the non-dyi crowd aren't problem solvers. With that sub, and the company no longer in business, I didn't have too many options outside an external replacement, so that's what I did.

Sorry for highjacking the thread.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well, one sub anp on an Epik Empire failed, and the company was gone. I just used a crown amp to power it and I actually have better performance with my DSP. If I could have found a direct replacement or anything close to fitting, I would have.

How did you bypass the sub-amp and connect to the Crown?

Was there a pre-out on the sub amp to allow bypassing the sub amp?

 

[everettT]

How did you bypass the sub-amp and connect to the Crown?

Simple, I pulled the amp and wired the crown through the existing opening to the xlt input, could have done it through the rca but it was easier than the rca input, just easier that way.Just took advantage of what was there.

 

[everettT]

How did you bypass the sub-amp and connect to the Crown?

Was there a pre-out on the sub amp to allow bypassing the sub amp?