Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
I assume, stratman, that you were referring to me. If so, is it really dumb to admit to not understanding the mentality of someone very different from me? Sorry then. obscbyclouds, I only wanted someone to explain it to me.

obscbyclouds and Buckeye_Nut -- thanks for the terrifying responses. Shutting up now . . .
Supervij, Stratman's post had nothing to do with yours. Someone made a very careless post in regards to school shootings, given what had just happened at Virginia Tech in the states.:( No one is out to get you.:)
 
obscbyclouds

obscbyclouds

Senior Audioholic
Supervij, Stratman's post had nothing to do with yours. Someone made a very careless post in regards to school shootings, given what had just happened at Virginia Tech in the states.:( No one is out to get you.:)
yes, neither did mine.
 
supervij

supervij

Audioholic General
Supervij, Stratman's post had nothing to do with yours. Someone made a very careless post in regards to school shootings, given what had just happened at Virginia Tech in the states.:( No one is out to get you.:)
Whew!

cheers,
supervij
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
Supervij,

The freedoms that you in Canada and we in the United States enjoy haven't been visited upon us because of our good looks. They were earned on the blood of many fathers and brothers (and mothers and sisters, too) who were willing to defend our rights and freedoms with their lives.
This cannot be repeated enough. Still, there are too many that don't understand or don't care.

Sure, guns are scary. The willingness to use them is an awesome thing. But if you take the right to own a gun away from one person, do you take it away from two? Three? Five thousand? One million? An entire nation? Where do you stop? Can you show me a nation of people who have lived free without weapons of defense? Switzerland, the ultimate politically neutral country in the world REQUIRES gun ownership in every home in the nation!
Yes, and the Nazi's never invaded neutral Switzerland like they did neutral Belgium, even after they controlled nearly all of Europe.

Do you think it's possible for a nation to have a military which can have firearms and a civilian population which can't? That's usually called a totalitarian society or dictatorship.

Freedom isn't free, Supervij. Our (the United States) founding fathers ensured their offspring wouldn't suffer from further repressive governance by forever granting the right to bear arms vis a vis the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
Most people defend the right to bear arms by arguing that it is needed for self defense against criminals, when in fact that right is granted in order for citizens to protect themselves against there own government. The founding fathers expected their newly formed government to get oppressive and corrupt, given enough time and contempt for the citizenry.

"A little revolution now and then is a good thing; the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson (1787)

As a Canadian that understands the wisdom of the right to bear arms, let me say that we unarmed Canadians will be in a world of hurt if we ever get a truly malicious government intent on depriving us of what freedoms we haven't already lost on the slippery slope of liberalism. Read our constitution. It will not protect us if any truly evil person takes power. The Prime Minister's ability to appoint the governor-general, senators, cabinet, supreme court judges, the heads of all crown corporations, as well as the RCMP chief and the military leadership is an unprecedented concentration of power in a single individual in a democracy. Dictators have killed to gain this concentration of power in their command. Combine this with an unarmed citizenry that has no electoral right to remove politicians and a constitution with an open door such as the notwithstanding clause and the war measures act, our government could, in theory, deprive us of every right overnight leaving us impotent and helpless, writing letters to the editor. It will not likely happen in my lifetime, but the infrastructure is already in place for very, very bad things to happen.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
When someone is stealing from people in the United States they go after the ones that are non-threatening, i.e. not armed, not a big burly man, not a kung fu master, ...etc.
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
When someone is stealing from people in the United States they go after the ones that are non-threatening, i.e. not armed, not a big burly man, not a kung fu master, ...etc.
A friend of mine had an interesting idea about gun ownership. He suggested that in the phone books of every community there be a little icon (maybe a bullet) next to the name/number/address of all gun owners. There would be no such icon next to non-gun owners. (We could all make a nice little political statement by doing that, couldn't we?!) Guess which homes would be more frequently broken into! ;)

You needn't speculate too long. That little town in Georgia I referred to earlier (where all families MUST own firearms), has the lowest home burglary rate in the nation.
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
A friend of mine had an interesting idea about gun ownership. He suggested that in the phone books of every community there be a little icon (maybe a bullet) next to the name/number/address of all gun owners. There would be no such icon next to non-gun owners. (We could all make a nice little political statement by doing that, couldn't we?!) Guess which homes would be more frequently broken into! ;)

You needn't speculate too long. That little town in Georgia I referred to earlier (where all families MUST own firearms), has the lowest home burglary rate in the nation.
I posted this picture before, but it's still quite relevant:

 
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Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
Great map, Jax.

After seeing that and reading our replies....I wonder if Supervij now understands a bit more, or even is a bit more agreeable regarding our firearm attitudes.

Supervij, what do you think of this map and what it portrays?
 
jeffsg4mac

jeffsg4mac

Republican Poster Boy
That's a great map, and it pretty much sums it all up. The gun control people have lost and they know it.
 
As expected: "politicians exempt"

Just like with every other law they make... applies to the "common man, but not to them.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
That little town in Georgia I referred to earlier (where all families MUST own firearms), has the lowest home burglary rate in the nation.
Of course, no one wants to risk getting shot just to steal a really nice stereo rig.:D
 
supervij

supervij

Audioholic General
Tomorrow, it is interesting, and I see where some of you are coming from: having handy access to guns means that since everyone has them, there's likely to be less violence and crime. (But that doesn't explain why Canadian cities have far less crime AND far less guns than American ones.) And of course, there's the protection aspect of it too -- wanting to make sure that one and one's family is protected. Not that those are the only factors in individuals wanting to own guns. There are other, more frightening reasons why some want to get their hands on firearms. And THAT scares the crap out of me.

Personally, I think if gun control were taken to another level, then it might work. Like, if people had to take psych tests before they were allowed to own a gun. Y'know, to make sure that they're not homicidal maniacs or have a criminal-like disposition or something. That would make me feel immeasureably safer. Not that the people would stand for such tests, but still.

At any rate, I'm content to be thought of as a peacenik pacifist or something around here. But . . . if I ever ask for home theatre-related help, you guys'll still lend a hand without calling me a sissy, right? ;)

Anyway, I never meant to steer this thread away from its topic. Sorry all.

cheers,
supervij
 
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stratman

stratman

Audioholic Ninja
Supervij,

You're not a sissy, but I'll point this out again for people that don't live in the US, our culture was basically directed by gun owners, our founding fathers. If you count how many guns there are in the US and compare how many ACCIDENTAL shootings we have, its negligible. Now if you throw into the mix how many people stop robberies, rapes, home invasions, business hold ups, etc (which doesn't get reported in our biased press) the numbers get even smaller. I'm a gun owner, have been for many years, we have strict gun controls, this nightmare at VT could have been stopped if ther COURTS would have released the info on the perp to the gun store owner. Untill they stop the politically correct and insane practice of protecting the loonies in this society we will continue to have these problems. And I'll be frank, even at the point of being called a synic, we have to see the courts hand in the matter.
 
S

soniceuphoria

Audioholic
It's been a while, but I stopped by and saw a thread on guns and just couldn't help myself. My recomendation for a daily carry personal protection firearm (my daily carry gun) is the Star PD 45. It has an aluminum frame which makes it very light weight and a perfect choice for personal defense. They are arround 20 to 30 years old, so finding a clean example is a must. Many law enforcement officers carried (some still do) this gun as a backup and/or for off duty use. I would steer clear of glock for a daily carry weapon for one big reason, they only have a trigger safety. This means that if you pull down on the trigger the gun will fire. There are over 160 reported cases of accidental death in 10 years for glock firearms alone (most being well trained police officers). And those are just the ones that have been reported. I value my balls and I value a round chambered for quick response, and with glock those two are not always a guarantee.

Gun control DOES NOT work.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The only thing that gun control does is it takes guns from proper citizens and leaves them defenseless to the criminal element. Do you really think that bubba from the local joint is going to go to the local gun store to purchase his next weapon. I highly doubt it. It's like the clinton ban in 94' that banned the sale of assault style weapons and mags bigger than 10 rounds from being produced or imported. The fact is that less than .75% of all gun crimes involve weapons that fell under those classifications. Most deaths by guns in america have been with revolvers.

Most of the people who are aginst guns have never fired one in their life. The can't understand why people love their guns so much. And until they stand face to face with a home intruder or robber, or have the pleasure of owning and firing a gun they won't change their mind. I value my life, I value my property, and anyone who threatens either will not live to tell their story.

Protect your stereo and prorect yourself. Keep packing.
 
Rob Babcock

Rob Babcock

Moderator
I had a Star PD for years and liked it very much. I would say it wasn't a real fun gun to plink with however. It was alloy framed and very light; besides the recoil, the torque of the bullet travelling down the barrel actually caused the pistol to roll in the hand.:eek:
 
W

whitestone

Audioholic Intern
You know what, I'm from the Toronto area also. I have been hunting for many years. But this home defence thing I'm not sure about it.Don't get me wrong but my guns are stored in a safe in the basement with my ammo in a locked toobox upstairs. Some of it is the law here.
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
Tomorrow, it is interesting, and I see where some of you are coming from: having handy access to guns means that since everyone has them, there's likely to be less violence and crime. (But that doesn't explain why Canadian cities have far less crime AND far less guns than American ones.)

Personally, I think if gun control were taken to another level, then it might work. Like, if people had to take psych tests before they were allowed to own a gun. Y'know, to make sure that they're not homicidal maniacs or have a criminal-like disposition or something. That would make me feel immeasureably safer. Not that the people would stand for such tests, but still.
Supervij,

There are MANY gun laws that prohibit the 'wrong' kind of individual from owning guns here in the U.S. (Not that they work all the time. Cho is a worst case example.)

I believe you're incorrect. There is just as much crime in Canada as there is in the U.S....but not as many gun related deaths. (Remember, gun death counts in the U.S. INCLUDE suicides (the most common gun death) and cop/defense shootings.

We don't hold your pacifist leanings against you, at all. It's just that, as I said earlier, no pacifist country, no unarmed country has ever endured in history. EVER. We'll help protect your safety and freedom NOT to own firearms, Supervij. :)
 
Tarub

Tarub

Senior Audioholic
Another anti right to bear arms lunatic.

_____________________________________________________

Originally Posted by Tom Plate
LOS ANGELES (CNN) -- Most days, it is not at all hard to feel proud to be an American. But on days such as this, it is very difficult.

The pain that the parents of the slain students feel hits deep into everyone's hearts. At the University of California, Los Angeles, students are talking about little else. It is not that they feel especially vulnerable because they are students at a major university, as is Virginia Tech, but because they are (to be blunt) citizens of High Noon America.

"High Noon" is a famous film. The 1952 Western told the story of a town marshal (played by the superstar actor Gary Cooper) who is forced to eliminate a gang of killers by himself. They are eventually gunned down.

The use of guns is often the American technique of choice for all kinds of conflict resolution. Our famous Constitution, about which many of us are generally so proud, enshrines -- along with the right to freedom of speech, press, religion and assembly -- the right to own guns. That's an apples and oranges list if there ever was one.

Not all of us are so proud and triumphant about the gun-guarantee clause. The right to free speech, press, religion and assembly and so on seem to be working well, but the gun part, not so much.

Let me explain. Some misguided people will focus on the fact that the 23-year-old student who killed his classmates and others at Virginia Tech was ethnically Korean. This is one of those observations that's 99.99 percent irrelevant. What are we to make of the fact that he is Korean? Ban Ki-moon is also Korean! Our brilliant new United Nations secretary general has not only never fired a gun, it looks like he may have just put together a peace formula for civil war-wracked Sudan -- a formula that escaped his predecessor.

So let's just disregard all the hoopla about the race of the student responsible for the slayings. These students were not killed by a Korean, they were killed by a 9 mm handgun and a .22-caliber handgun.

In the nineties, the Los Angeles Times courageously endorsed an all-but-complete ban on privately owned guns, in an effort to greatly reduce their availability. By the time the series of editorials had concluded, the newspaper had received more angry letters and fiery faxes from the well-armed U.S. gun lobby than on any other issue during my privileged six-year tenure as the newspaper's editorial page editor.

But the paper, by the way, also received more supportive letters than on any other issue about which it editorialized during that era. The common sense of ordinary citizens told them that whatever Americans were and are good for, carrying around guns like costume jewelry was not on our Mature List of Notable Cultural Accomplishments.

"Guns don't kill people," goes the gun lobby's absurd mantra. Far fewer guns in America would logically result in far fewer deaths from people pulling the trigger. The probability of the Virginia Tech gun massacre happening would have been greatly reduced if guns weren't so easily available to ordinary citizens.

Foreigners sometimes believe that celebrities in America are more often the targets of gun violence than the rest of us. Not true. Celebrity shootings just make better news stories, so perhaps they seem common. They're not. All of us are targets because with so many guns swishing around our culture, no one is immune -- not even us non-celebrities.

When the great pop composer and legendary member of the Beatles John Lennon was shot in 1980 in New York, many in the foreign press tabbed it a war on celebrities. Now, some in the media will declare a war on students or some-such. This is all misplaced. The correct target of our concern needs to be guns. America has more than it can possibly handle. How many can our society handle? My opinion is: as close to zero as possible.

Last month, I was robbed at 10 in the evening in the alley behind my home. As I was carrying groceries inside, a man with a gun approached me where my car was parked. The gun he carried featured one of those red-dot laser beams, which he pointed right at my head.

Because I'm anything but a James Bond type, I quickly complied with all of his requests. Perhaps because of my rapid response (it is called surrender), he chose not to shoot me; but he just as easily could have. What was to stop him?

This occurred in Beverly Hills, a low-crime area dotted with upscale boutiques, restaurants and businesses -- a city best known perhaps for its glamour and celebrity sightings.

Oh, and police tell me the armed robber definitely was not Korean. Not that I would have known one way or the other: Basically the only thing I saw or can remember was the gun, with the red dot, pointed right at my head.

A near-death experience does focus the mind. We need to get rid of our guns.

cnn wants your commentary via this link: http://www.cnn.com/exchange/ireports...ommentary.html

but go ahead and send it straight to the author: tplate@ucla.edu

________________________________________

I am not going to get rid of my collection. I 'll point my 6" 44mag colt revolver
to his head and tell him "go ahead make my day."

That's a nice piece there Matt. I think I want one. But still my Colt 9mm Commander luger is my favorite of all my collection. I'll see if I can post a picture later.
 
jeffsg4mac

jeffsg4mac

Republican Poster Boy
I just love this part of that idiots diatribe, "So let's just disregard all the hoopla about the race of the student responsible for the slayings. These students were not killed by a Korean, they were killed by a 9 mm handgun and a .22-caliber handgun".

LOL, I guess the handguns walked into the school and shot people all by themselves. What brand of handgun can do that? what a moron.

Whenever an anti-gun idiot tells me we need more gun laws to stop crime, I always say "Really, do speeding laws stop you from speeding?" that always shuts them up.
 
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