My new carry piece

[jaxvon]

oh I hate shooting (even with ear guards, it's too loud for me)
I've been around Beretta 92Fs (we have four of these scattered around home and work) all my life - me and my dad have had so many close calls with it. my dad's trash can can attest to that. when I was a kid, I hit my nose with the guns recoil (stupid me holding it too close to my face)

so yes, I need a 9mm pistol ... because it's free ammunition for me.
I need an automatic ... because I can't shoot for sh*t
I WILL get a revolver for my wife as well. (good point on the .357 shooting .38s)

hee hee. i've been dilly dallying joining a gun forum - forgot how many of you guys are packin.

I don't know how strong your wife is, but for most women, a .38 Special is about the upper limit of the recoil they can safely and effectively handle (this is from personal experience). Also remember that a heavier and/or longer gun will reduce recoil. While this is not optimal in a concealed setting, it's fine for home defense, again provided that the gun is not too heavy for your wife to operate. I'm not trying to be sexist here.

If you have issues with accuracy, you might consider the Sig P226R. It has an integrated Crimson Trace laser dot.
http://www.sigarms.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=7&productid=79

With regards to the issue of noise, try doubling up. Use earplugs then the headphone-style noise reduction muffs over that.

I notice that a lot of people are recommending the shotgun. I would agree (again). Just try to find a gun that isn't too long. My Remington 870 Express Super Magnum is an awesome gun, but the barrel is really too big to use for a home defense weapon. Look for a tactical-style shotgun.

 

[jaxvon]

carrying a concealed weapon "right/privilege" here has been suspended indefinitely (unless with special permit by a judge)

ownership by an ordinary citizen:
one shotgun and one pistol I think.

ownership by a citizen that is a member of a gun club
more shotguns and more pistols.

regarding rifles however, no automatic weapons ... mostly limited to shotguns.
regarding pistols, civilians ARE NOT allowed .45 pistols - 9mm and below is ok. I'm trying to confirm .357 and .40, but it might also not be allowed.

since most houses here are concrete, penetration through walls shouldn't be a problem.

shotguns are hard to hide (from kids, from the household help) unless I get a gun rack ... which I have no place for. though, the shotgun brand I see here is Benelli - is that a good brand? (the other brands are locally made)

anybody here have experience with the James Bond Walther (P99?) ?

oh, regarding the comment on why I want guns ... over here, if you surprise a burglar in the act, they might take your life. although it is wrong, if I do get a chance to "surprise a burglar" even if he's not packin', I might not give him a chance to prey on somebody else just on principle.

I don't have any experience with the Walther, but I do know they make high quality arms. As for shotguns, yes, Benelli makes excellent shotguns. They are more expensive than Remington, but definitely a great choice.

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

when I was a kid, I hit my nose with the guns recoil (stupid me holding it too close to my face)

LOL..... that gave me a flashback of the first time I qualified with a M-16 rifle at boot camp. I put my face soooo far forward, that I split my nose open on the charging handle when firing.

HEH.... I qualified as "sharpshooter", and got a bloody nose in the process.

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

Mike...what are the general laws governing firearm ownership and concealed carry in the Philippines?

Over here the states and municipalities have differing laws. It's good to live in Oregon where one can still defend one's family. I don't know if you heard, but the Second Amendment was just defended by a (District) Supreme Court decision regarding the right to private gun ownership in the District of Columbia. (This is/was a big deal because of the stated definition of the Second Amendment by the court..that "the people" really means everyone and not some National Guard militia.) The draconian laws banning ownership in DC were found unconstitutional. Ironically, those places with the strictest gun control laws are usually those places with the highest gun murder rates...DC amongst the highest. The dissenting, minority decision disagreed with the majority court decision on the basis that residents of DC WERE NOT COVERED BY THE FEDERAL LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES!!! (and therefore the U.S. Constitution). Now isn't that silliness of the highest order?! Incidentally, there is a town in Georgia (can't remember the name...maybe someone will chime in with it), that has the lowest firearm murder rate in the nation (for a town of its size)...where it is municipal law that EVERY household must have a firearm. How about that?!

Because of this one idiot Cho, and general news media and public over-reaction, we'll certainly see the hue and cry re-raised by the gun control folks in the legislature. If Hillary is elected Queen, there is one constitutional right that is in great jeopardy, IMHO.

:golf clap:

Very well said...

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

It's not my habit to post in the Steam Vent, but man oh man, you Americans really do love your guns. As a Canadian, it's not something I can really understand.

Matt, you're right -- mouettus' comment wasn't funny. But to a lot of Canadians, just knowing that a particular individual owns -- or even wants -- a gun . . . it makes us a little uneasy. We sorta think, "Why would you need one? Are you looking to hurt or kill someone? Holy crap, is this guy stable?" It's really unnerving to know that someone wants the ability to kill people. I'm not trying to start a debate, but with all the gun-related deaths (accidental or not), I'd prefer a world that didn't include guns. (Typical Canadian, eh?)

I'm not trying to be preachy, honestly, so please don't flame me. I just honestly don't understand the mentality of wanting to own/use a gun. It scares the hell out of me.

cheers,
supervij

We want you to feel uneasy........

So the next time you visit the USA, you had better be well behaved, because you'll never know who's packing.

If a potential intruder is roaming my street at 2am...... he should be very afraid indeed if he's thinking about entering my home. I dont even own a firearm, but the deterrent of 'potentially' being shot dead in his tracks is still very real.

 

[mike c]

I don't know how strong your wife is, but for most women, a .38 Special is about the upper limit of the recoil they can safely and effectively handle (this is from personal experience). Also remember that a heavier and/or longer gun will reduce recoil. While this is not optimal in a concealed setting, it's fine for home defense, again provided that the gun is not too heavy for your wife to operate. I'm not trying to be sexist here.

If you have issues with accuracy, you might consider the Sig P226R. It has an integrated Crimson Trace laser dot.
http://www.sigarms.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=7&productid=79

With regards to the issue of noise, try doubling up. Use earplugs then the headphone-style noise reduction muffs over that.

I notice that a lot of people are recommending the shotgun. I would agree (again). Just try to find a gun that isn't too long. My Remington 870 Express Super Magnum is an awesome gun, but the barrel is really too big to use for a home defense weapon. Look for a tactical-style shotgun.

the wife hates guns. never shot a gun. and is pretty small. I'll look for a .25 for her

those squishy reshapeable earplugs don't fit my ear. hmm, come to think of it, maybe I can't hear the difference between speakers is because I have small earholes

I forgot to mention that sig was one of the pistols I'm looking at... which model will have the silver/SS top and black grip? was there a P228 model years back? (I've been delaying buying a gun for so long)

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

The leftist anti-gun media rarely report positive stories that are the result of firearms, which is why I was shocked to find this story linked on my my.yahoo.com front page this very morning!!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070421/ap_on_re_us/brave_beauty_queen_1

Wow...what amazing timing considering the current discussion in this thread. Staring down at the 'business end' of a firearm can have an amazing effect on an intruder and/or potential attacker.

How might this intruder have responded to being 'discovered' by the elderly beauty queen had he not been staring down the barrel of a gun? Luckily for this elderly woman......... she'll didn't have to find out.

 

[majorloser]

the wife hates guns. never shot a gun. and is pretty small. I'll look for a .25 for her

those squishy reshapeable earplugs don't fit my ear. hmm, come to think of it, maybe I can't hear the difference between speakers is because I have small earholes

I forgot to mention that sig was one of the pistols I'm looking at... which model will have the silver/SS top and black grip? was there a P228 model years back? (I've been delaying buying a gun for so long)

Think about a .380 for the wife. My wife carries a .380 Berretta. It's just a shorter 9mm.

BTW- .357 is 9mm. If that means anything with the law there. .40 cal would be over the 9mm size limit.

Jaxvon- Most women can handle a hell of lot larger guns then you give them credit. I've seen many women at the range shooting Desert Eagles and loving every minute. The only real issue for a women is the size of the grip and comfort in the hand. A .38 Special has some of the worst stopping power.

 

[jaxvon]

Think about a .380 for the wife. My wife carries a .380 Berretta. It's just a shorter 9mm.

BTW- .357 is 9mm. If that means anything with the law there. .40 cal would be over the 9mm size limit.

Jaxvon- Most women can handle a hell of lot larger guns then you give them credit. I've seen many women at the range shooting Desert Eagles and loving every minute. The only real issue for a women is the size of the grip and comfort in the hand. A .38 Special has some of the worst stopping power.

Perhaps it's just that most women I've seen shooting have a fear of guns that affects their ability to shoot. I know many are physically strong enough.

As for the effectiveness of a .38 special, I'm surprised. Does it not offer very good penetration?

And on the subject of the .380, I think it would be a good choice. I love my 1908 Pocket Hammerless.

It's one of the few handguns I've fired that just fits when I grab it.

 

[Matt34]

My wife has fired my XD .45 very effectively before. She feared guns for the longest time until I was able to talk here into coming to the range with me.

 

[dem beats]

My best friends father sells weapons as a legal dealer.

I can tell you this from every bit of information out there. Unless you are in all out war penetration is worthless. Especialy against a cracked out spank shooting freak breaking into your home.

#1 I would recoment a shot gun. You said you're not a cracker jack shot, so here you don't have to aim. When youre adrenalin is through the roof if you are nto used to those situations you may shake. Most people freeze or react, but even those that react still shake unless verry verry comfortable in those situations.

I can't stress enough the fact a shotgun is much much better for "home defence".

#2 I would recomend a shotgun. With a smaller shot it has less likely hood to go through doors. I doubt doors are concrete and if your wife or personal posetions are on the other side of a door you want to minimize damage. You should only be shooting at what you have a clear shot at.

#3 OK OK if you must get a pistol I can see no other choice but the m1911. Perhaps the XD .45. I have no experience with the XD. With a 45 it sill penitrate and stop. If your lucky won't even go through. Use a safety round. Hollowpoint etc. The m1911 is reliable, springfield armory makes a verry reasonable price on some great firearms. IMHO. You can also take it apart with no tools once you have been trained. I admit I cannot alone, yet, but I have done it with help.

Something you can learn from millitary use is that we found against an enimy who was rushing towards or one that was on PCP angel dust, whatever the drug was the 9mm will just penitrate through, and the enemy will still have clarity of mind because the pain isn't a factor. You may have to wait untill they bleed to death.

Even the tried and true "aim at the center body of mass and squeeze(remember don't pull =)) the trigger twice" method will not drop an enraged druged up SOB who breaks into your house to hurt your loved ones.

Without detail or visuals, imagine this... against a huge hulking grizley bear of a man desterate for a fix trying to steal your home audio and jewels woudl you rather have a nice fast fancy raipier to thrust into his soft tissue *** he still continuise to rush you and grapple you down or a 10 pound sledge? The sledge will knock him to the ground everytime and make bones unsuportive, also probably mash organs etc. This makes the opponent unable to use his natural or unnatural weapons. You can be just as acurate wiht a larger gun you just have to know you can't double fist in the movies or rapid fire over and over unles you have 1' thick wrists and forearms.

My friend I take this subject very seriously, I suggest you "demo" the shortest legal tactical shotgun first. Above all try to make this work. Also you can equip those with a wonderfull brighter than bright tactical flashlight and that alone can stun most would be crazy folks not to mention the fear inspiring sound of a shotgun loading as you work the slide.

I come from my point of view based on my friend father where everyoen in the home sleeps within arms reach of a weapon. EVERYONE accept the mother of the house uses a m1911 for home protection there. They also have all had some form or another of tactical training. This is in addition to the several legal fited AK-47's, and shotguns. The ocassional 7mm mag deer hunting rifle etc.

Sound like you have plenty of exposure to firearms but I can tell you nothing works like a shotgun for home protection.

Safety first. good luck

 

[zildjian]

I think several of us here have had tactical firearm training, but unless that's the case or at least someone is very experienced with a particular pistol, a standard 12 gauge pump-action shotgun with a full 9 shell capacity would be the easiest to use & most effective home defense firearm for your average joe/jane. Pump-action models are generally shorter in length than semi-automatic shotguns, less likely to jam, and most can hold a couple more shells (9) than your standard hunting shotgun (7).

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

One could always arm themselves with a .577 Nitro for home protection. Check out these idiots trying to fire one. At $20 a shot, I'll opt for the 12ga. instead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ged4lz_Fw2Y&mode=related&search=
YouTube - More Iraqis can ' t shoot + one European who shows.

 

[Nick250]

I remember reading that most hand gun deaths were from family members. I googled it but could not find the reference. Anyone know if this is true?

Nick

 

[supervij]

stratman said: That was a dumb comment.

obscbyclouds said: He's obviously looking for these responses from you guys.

I assume, stratman, that you were referring to me. If so, is it really dumb to admit to not understanding the mentality of someone very different from me? Sorry then. obscbyclouds, I only wanted someone to explain it to me.

obscbyclouds and Buckeye_Nut -- thanks for the terrifying responses. Shutting up now . . .

 

[Tomorrow]

I remember reading that most hand gun deaths were from family members. I googled it but could not find the reference. Anyone know if this is true?

Nick

Hey Nick...you and the missus not getting along so well?!

LOL...J/K.

No, it's not true. In fact, when the news media gives you gun death "data", suicides are generally included. Suicides account for the majority of deaths by firearms. So if you consider yourself 'family'...well then.......

 

[jeffsg4mac]

In case anyone is interested, I believe the testing that was done on goats some years back showed that a .357 with a 125 gr.JHP loaded to 1500+ FPS had the best one shot kill. Something like 98.9 percent. I think one of the .45 loadings came in a close second. It won't matter how jacked up on crack or some other drug a person is, he will drop with one of those loads and he will drop quick.

I carry either a GLOCK in a .45 or a Taurus .357 depending on my mood

 

[Matt34]

I assume, stratman, that you were referring to me. If so, is it really dumb to admit to not understanding the mentality of someone very different from me? Sorry then. obscbyclouds, I only wanted someone to explain it to me.

obscbyclouds and Buckeye_Nut -- thanks for the terrifying responses. Shutting up now . . .

I think stratman's comment was for a post that was deleted supervij.

I have been around guns my entire life, it's part of my job and it's a hobby for me as much as A/V is to most of us here. Just because I choose to own and carry a weapon does not mean I ever want to use it on another human being. I hope and pray I never have to but that does not change the fact that I may be put in a situation where my life or the lives of others may depend on the same tool used by the aggressor.

Supervij, I have lived and visited many other countries so I know how this "fascination" America has with firearms seems absurd to you, I really do. Until we find a way to keep guns out of criminal's hand I will keep a weapon by my side.

The Nug said it best IMO.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/19/commentary.nugent/index.html

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Here is some of the data, look at the lower chart for stopping percent. http://webplaza.pt.lu/smat/database/News/StoppingPower/Power.htm

Matt, Right on, amen brother. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by six I always say.

 

[Tomorrow]

I assume, stratman, that you were referring to me. If so, is it really dumb to admit to not understanding the mentality of someone very different from me? Sorry then. obscbyclouds, I only wanted someone to explain it to me.

obscbyclouds and Buckeye_Nut -- thanks for the terrifying responses. Shutting up now . . .

Supervij,

The freedoms that you in Canada and we in the United States enjoy haven't been visited upon us because of our good looks. They were earned on the blood of many fathers and brothers (and mothers and sisters, too) who were willing to defend our rights and freedoms with their lives.

Sure, guns are scary. The willingness to use them is an awesome thing. But if you take the right to own a gun away from one person, do you take it away from two? Three? Five thousand? One million? An entire nation? Where do you stop? Can you show me a nation of people who have lived free without weapons of defense? Switzerland, the ultimate politically neutral country in the world REQUIRES gun ownership in every home in the nation!

Do you think it's possible for a nation to have a military which can have firearms and a civilian population which can't? That's usually called a totalitarian society or dictatorship.

Freedom isn't free, Supervij. Our (the United States) founding fathers ensured their offspring wouldn't suffer from further repressive governance by forever granting the right to bear arms vis a vis the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.