Monoprice Monolith 7-Channel Amplifier Review

[Glenv6]

To each their own, but seems a bit out of place in a discussion of amplifier architecture.
This is the first time I have read that balanced amplifier technology negatively impacts pace and rhythm.

- Rich

I read it as more of a discussion on whether or not the technology was a marketing ploy.

Perhaps back in that day some of those implementations, borrowed from commercial sound equipment, truly weren't up to the toe tapping standards of their single-ended counterparts....

 

[gene]

See my answers in red text below by expanding your post quote.

I know, and have read the linked article more than once. I actually meant for example you didn't always measure IMD, and I found the SNR section could be made a little clearer, so people (like me) don't have to assume things.

Example:







So it seems you measured the RR2150 at the power amp output and the Denons at the pre-outs? If so, then I have the following questions:
I usually measure preouts of AV receivers to make sure they are clean and able to drive at least 2Vrms to best mate with externala amplification. In the case of the RR2150, nobody would be using that as a preamp only so I likely reasoned to just measure from input to speaker output.

- For AVRs, did you always measure in Direct mode at the minimum, and with DSP only in some cases? Yes usually direct mode and then with DSP engaged to measure bass management circuits.

- Did you always use 100 mV in, or whatever it needs to obtain 1 Vrms at the pre-out?
Typically yes unless otherwise noted.

- In addition to measuring SN or the prepro section, why wouldn't you measure the overall SNR of AVRs from input to speaker output as well, so we can compare SNRs of AVRs (when used as prepro only) to prepros, and also AVR to prepro/power amp combos.
I do. When you see my 1watt SNR measurement that goes from preamp (100mV) to speaker output (8 ohms, 2.83V).

It will be great if, for AVR, receivers and integrated amps, we can see the SNR values for:

- Preamp input to preamp output (e.g. 100 mV in, 1 Vrms out).
- Preamp input to speaker output (e.g. 10mVin, 1 W out, 100mVin, 100 W, or rated output)
I usually do exactly what you're saying unless I'm using an HDMI input which I will set either to -10dBFs or 0dBFS depending if I'm testing bass management. My test conditions should be noted in most cases however if I differ.

Sorry about asking so many questions, I do appreciate the fact that the AH test lab has already gone way over and above anyone else in the business, in providing so much valuable information and making it publicly available, for free. Thanks again for the great work!

No problem and I appreciate your suggestions. I'm always looking to improve my testing procedure for accuracy and consistency.

 

[PENG]

See my answers in red text below by expanding your post quote.

Many thanks for the informative response, but specifically in your most recent review on the X3300W, the information on SN provided were:

A graph titled:
Denon AVR-X3300W Signal to Noise Ratio (1Vrms) - Pure Direct

and the remarks:
The AVR-X3300W preamp output exhibited a low noise floor (90dB) unweighted with 100mV input drive.

So was the 90 dB unweighted measured from input (presumably analog, e.g CD) to speaker output, at about 1 watt (based on approx. 29 dB gain)?

In your experience, did you find much difference between the figures measured at the preout and speaker output?

Other than that, it will be great if you can measure the IMD in your next review, hopefully either the AVR-X8500H, SR8012 or the AV8805. I know that would be a tall order, but with you influence on, and probably relation with D&M, I think there is a chance that they will loan you a unit or two, if asked.

 

[gene]

Many thanks for the informative response, but specifically in your most recent review on the X3300W, the information on SN provided were:

A graph titled:
Denon AVR-X3300W Signal to Noise Ratio (1Vrms) - Pure Direct

and the remarks:
The AVR-X3300W preamp output exhibited a low noise floor (90dB) unweighted with 100mV input drive.

So was the 90 dB unweighted measured from input (presumably analog, e.g CD) to speaker output, at about 1 watt (based on approx. 29 dB gain)?

In your experience, did you find much difference between the figures measured at the preout and speaker output?

Other than that, it will be great if you can measure the IMD in your next review, hopefully either the AVR-X8500H, SR8012 or the AV8805. I know that would be a tall order, but with you influence on, and probably relation with D&M, I think there is a chance that they will loan you a unit or two, if asked.

Yea the AVR-X3300W was a quick review so I didn't do a full battery of tests like I normally do. My cousin bought it and lent it to me for a few hours to test. The 90dB SNR was the analog preouts at 1Vrms with 100mV input drive. Usually the speaker outs will measure 2-3dB lower at 1 watt than what you see from the preouts at 1Vrms from my experience.

 

[TheAVInsider]

I would like my first post to add some value to the community in some way.

The Monolith7X with XLR Inputs was available for purchase for the very first time ever on 4/26/2018.

I have purchased the last of the first 25 available to mate with my Denon AVR-X6200W . More are on the way. Once I receive the unit I would like to determine the actual single ended/fully balanced/semi balanced amplifier design within the 7X. Quite a lot of debate out there on whether this product is similar in nature to the amplifier design used in the Outlaw 7700, or possibly even the now discontinued ATI 2007. I hope @gene can guide us through this Monolith7X design feature in a new amplifier thread. I really know nothing about it. I simply wanted the option for future potential, so I held out for the new model. For now, I will do my best to help out here. I am not an electrical engineer or designer, as should be apparent in my profile ID.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14566

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would like my first post to add some value to the community in some way.

The Monolith7X with XLR Inputs was available for purchase for the very first time ever on 4/26/2018.

I have purchased the last of the first 25 available to mate with my Denon AVR-X6200W . More are on the way. Once I receive the unit I would like to determine the actual single ended/fully balanced/semi balanced amplifier design within the 7X. Quite a lot of debate out there on whether this product is similar in nature to the amplifier design used in the Outlaw 7700, or possibly even the now discontinued ATI 2007. I hope @gene can guide us through this Monolith7X design feature in a new amplifier thread. I really know nothing about it. I simply wanted the option for future potential, so I held out for the new model. For now, I will do my best to help out here. I am not an electrical engineer or designer, as should be apparent in my profile ID.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14566

The question is definitely whether this Monolith XLR is fully balanced from input to output.

 

[gene]

The question is definitely whether this Monolith XLR is fully balanced from input to output.

It's likely not! All they probably did was use a phase splitter on the inputs or at best a differential input opamp. The output stage is still single ended like most "budget" amplifier designs.

 

[TheAVInsider]

I have a follow up.

"XLR input to a single amplifier for each channel."

Very cool. I am so happy to hear our concerns being addressed. Monoprice has listened and added XLR, which was one of very few complaints heard in most of the reviews of the original Monolith 7/5/3/2.

So there you have it folks. Now does that mean I lost out and should return this new amplifier version and continue shopping for another that balanced amp that is $$$ more. I Don't believe that for a minute. I still win here, just not the grand prize.

Hopefully there is something we can all learn from this. What is the benefit to having an "XLR input to a single amplifier for each channel." in an otherwise single ended amplifer design. I would hope for more than simple cable related benefits that have nothing to do with the amplifer itself.

BTW they are backordered another month again, but the entire order was 250 units, so 225 are still coming. The first 25 lasted 1 day. Glad I could help.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I have a follow up. I cannot disclose my source, because it is within a private email. An insider at the ATI factory just gave me this answer to our question. Fully balanced; differential; 2 amplifiers per channel?

"XLR input to a single amplifier for each channel."

Very cool. I am so happy to hear our concerns being addressed. Monoprice has listened and added XLR, which was one of very few complaints heard in most of the reviews of the original Monolith 7/5/3/2.

So there you have it folks. Now does that mean I lost out and should return this new amplifier version and continue shopping for another that balanced amp that is $$$ more. I Don't believe that for a minute. I still win here, just not the grand prize.

Hopefully there is something we can all learn from this. What is the benefit to having an "XLR input to a single amplifier for each channel." in an otherwise single ended amplifer design. I would hope for more than simple cable related benefits that have nothing to do with the amplifer itself.

BTW they are backordered another month again, but the entire order was 250 units, so 225 are still coming. The first 25 lasted 1 day. Glad I could help.

I agree with you. I still think it’s a good benefit at a low cost to have XLR connectors on a single-ended design.

It’s still a great 200WPC ATI-made amp!

 

[PENG]

The question is definitely whether this Monolith XLR is fully balanced from input to output.

If they did, and the price remaining the same then they won't be making money, or making much less. If they can still make the same profit then I won't touch it with a ten foot pole. The salient point is, you don't get something for nothing, typically speaking.

 

[PENG]

I have a follow up. I cannot disclose my source, because it is within a private email. An insider at the ATI factory just gave me this answer to our question. Fully balanced; differential; 2 amplifiers per channel?

"XLR input to a single amplifier for each channel."

Very cool. I am so happy to hear our concerns being addressed. Monoprice has listened and added XLR, which was one of very few complaints heard in most of the reviews of the original Monolith 7/5/3/2.

So there you have it folks. Now does that mean I lost out and should return this new amplifier version and continue shopping for another that balanced amp that is $$$ more. I Don't believe that for a minute. I still win here, just not the grand prize.

Hopefully there is something we can all learn from this. What is the benefit to having an "XLR input to a single amplifier for each channel." in an otherwise single ended amplifer design. I would hope for more than simple cable related benefits that have nothing to do with the amplifer itself.

BTW they are backordered another month again, but the entire order was 250 units, so 225 are still coming. The first 25 lasted 1 day. Glad I could help.

It is not believable if they simply double up the amp stages using the same quality parts, unless they also jack the price up, not double but say 15-20% or so.

 

[TheAVInsider]

I should be having my own Official Unboxing on 5/3/2018

 

[Irvrobinson]

It's likely not! All they probably did was use a phase splitter on the inputs or at best a differential input opamp. The output stage is still single ended like most "budget" amplifier designs.

I'm guessing, Gene that you meant to say that most budget amp output stages are single-differential, not single-ended. I'm aware of few solid state amps that have truly single-ended outputs stages, and they're weird things (sorry, Nelson, but they are) like the First Watt amps.

 

[TheAVInsider]

More updates from Monoprice about the Monolith 7X

We apologize for the delay. We had some delays in manufacturing due to sub-par parts that were received. We are hoping to start shipping again by the end of next month.

and

They came into stock this week and sold out. We should have more in stock next week. Our apologies!

 

[RichB]

More updates from Monoprice about the Monolith 7X

We apologize for the delay. We had some delays in manufacturing due to sub-par parts that were received. We are hoping to start shipping again by the end of next

Are you sure that manufacturing sited sup-par parts? That is highly unusual correspondence.

- Rich

 

[KEW]

Are you sure that manufacturing sited sub-par parts? That is highly unusual correspondence.

- Rich

Yeah, that is way too simple, honest, and to the point!
ATI must not budget much for PR spin!

 

[TheAVInsider]

Double post

 

[TheAVInsider]

Yeah, that is way too simple, honest, and to the point!
ATI must not budget much for PR spin!

Ok, I get that I have just joined, my post count is single digit, and trolls do exist.
However, I can assure you this is true because I can read, and if you can read too, you can see this right on the product page on the Monoprice website under the Monolith 7X pruduct Q&A listed newest first.

 

[lovinthehd]

Ok, I get that I have just joined, my post count is single digit, and trolls do exist.
However, I can assure you this is true because I can read, and if you can read too, you can see this right on the product page on the Monoprice website under the Monolith 7X pruduct Q&A listed newest first.

I think you misread KEW's post....he's saying someone at ATI or Monoprice didn't spin a better story which is the usual corporate way....

 

[KEW]

Ok, I get that I have just joined, my post count is single digit, and trolls do exist.
However, I can assure you this is true because I can read, and if you can read too, you can see this right on the product page on the Monoprice website under the Monolith 7X pruduct Q&A listed newest first.

Welcome!
Sorry, I was being sarcastic.
I do believe ATI or Monoprice may simply tell the truth about having supplier quality problems and certainly have no reason to doubt you!
No offense intended!