Monoprice Monolith 16” THX Ultra Subwoofer Performance Analysis

K

Kleinst

Senior Audioholic
Well this is kindof the point @lovinthehd is making above. Higher output and numbers don't always tell the whole story

in certain room sizes or use situations you may not need that extra output at all.

You definetly have to take all factors into consideration before you cough up the extra dough
Yeah, I wonder for your room what kind of difference a couple 16s or 13s would make with what you presently have. Well it will be fun to figure that out :) Have you ruled out getting more of the RBH subs or does the economics just not make sense for the back of the room?

Also wonder if they will Discontinue the M-215. I think the output of the 16 is comparable.

Either way, some nice additions for everyone to think about.
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Depends on what you mean. 3dB in spl requires a doubling of power....and distance comes into play as well. Percentages just aren't the right mathematical ways of expressing differences

ps Also consider that generally that perceiving a loudness difference of double is in the range of 6-10 dB spl difference depending whose definition you're using.
In low frequencies, it doesn't take nearly 6dB for a doubling of loudness. "Loudness" is frequency-dependent and lay in the domain of psychoacoustics. "Loudness" complicates things though, so I prefer to stick with acoustic amplitude ratios where +6dB is a doubling of output.
 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Yeah, I wonder for your room what kind of difference a couple 16s or 13s would make with what you presently have. Well it will be fun to figure that out :) Have you ruled out getting more of the RBH subs or does the economics just not make sense for the back of the room?

Also wonder if they will Discontinue the M-215. I think the output of the 16 is comparable.

Either way, some nice additions for everyone to think about.
The problem for me is the RBH subs increased in price and they weren't cheap to begin with

Plus I ran RCA through that front wall and would like to be able to use those connects my other RBH is passive so I can't do that

I plan on having both RBH in nearfield in the back but they are just monsters in output so I needed something in the front that could keep up with them but also have the same port tune and frequency response which these do and boy does it look like they can they keep up with the RBH

Honestly the 2 RBH put out crazy output but my room and it's shape is terrible for bass and I have a problem with a null in the middle of the room and some unevenness in seats no matter where I place them or dial them in

So I feel the best way to combat this is to corner load all 4 corners and then dial them in with a mini dsp to help with any excess from corner loading that sometimes happens to certain frequencies

Its the smoothing of the response at all seats I'm after the extra output will just be a bonus

But these monoprice will be the most cost effective way I can do that

But I'm just waiting for hopefully a piano gloss finish which I here is coming out next year so they can match up with the rest of my RBH gear

If not I may just have to save up extra and go with the RBH
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
In low frequencies, it doesn't take nearly 6dB for a doubling of loudness. "Loudness" is frequency-dependent and lay in the domain of psychoacoustics. "Loudness" complicates things though, so I prefer to stick with acoustic amplitude ratios where +6dB is a doubling of output.
I was thinking in more general terms.....got a particularly good chart/graph to show the differences at subwoofer frequencies?
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
The problem for me is the RBH subs increased in price and they weren't cheap to begin with

Plus I ran RCA through that front wall and would like to be able to use those connects my other RBH is passive so I can't do that

I plan on having both RBH in nearfield in the back but they are just monsters in output so I needed something in the front that could keep up with them but also have the same port tune and frequency response which these do and boy does it look like they can they keep up with the RBH

Honestly the 2 RBH put out crazy output but my room and it's shape is terrible for bass and I have a problem with a null in the middle of the room and some unevenness in seats no matter where I place them or dial them in

So I feel the best way to combat this is to corner load all 4 corners and then dial them in with a mini dsp to help with any excess from corner loading that sometimes happens to certain frequencies

Its the smoothing of the response at all seats I'm after the extra output will just be a bonus

But these monoprice will be the most cost effective way I can do that

But I'm just waiting for hopefully a piano gloss finish which I here is coming out next year so they can match up with the rest of my RBH gear

If not I may just have to save up extra and go with the RBH
Four corners is what's up. I'm very glad I did that. I don't have near the output of your RBH subs, but bass is now nice and smooth in my too square of a room. I need to finish dialing the extra two subs in when I have time.

However, this 16" monoprice has me almost wishing I had set things up for active subs too. This thing does everything I'd want it to. I'd have to carry it upstairs though, and I do not want to do that. Couldn't be heavier than my riser though, that wasn't fun at all.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I was thinking in more general terms.....got a particularly good chart/graph to show the differences at subwoofer frequencies?
Here is the key chart that illustrates this:

This is a chunk of the equal loudness contours which focus on low frequencies. So the far right side of the graph extends to 1000kHz which is the reference frequency for determining loudness. A "phone" is a psychoacoustic unit of loudness. At 1kHz, a 10 phon increase is heard as a doubling of loudness. Now note how the lines bunch up as they approach deeper frequencies. This tells us that human hearing is much more sensitive to changes in SPL at low frequencies, at least once the threshold for audibility is surpassed. Some research points to hearing at low frequencies to be even more sensitive than what is shown here, where a 3dB increase is perceived as a doubling of loudness.
 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
If you are in Norway, DITTO .p
Dude I would love to visit sometime I love to travel and I've never been thank you once this pandemic calms down I'm for sure going to travel man got the travel bug just itching
 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Four corners is what's up. I'm very glad I did that. I don't have near the output of your RBH subs, but bass is now nice and smooth in my too square of a room. I need to finish dialing the extra two subs in when I have time.

However, this 16" monoprice has me almost wishing I had set things up for active subs too. This thing does everything I'd want it to. I'd have to carry it upstairs though, and I do not want to do that. Couldn't be heavier than my riser though, that wasn't fun at all.
Yeah I've tried everything else when I had the 2 PB 4000's plus the RBH 3 was a big improvement over 2 so I'm shooting for 4
 
haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Spartan
Dude I would love to visit sometime I love to travel and I've never been thank you once this pandemic calms down I'm for sure going to travel man got the travel bug just itching
Here is a shot from this morning
 
haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Spartan
Da$#n you @shadyJ ... not only do I have to get new much larger subwoofers but I also have to employ a rugby team to get them into flat o_O:D
 
haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Spartan
I came across this, with the Monolith M-215 subwoofers, I can only say those subwoofers are completely unreally insane ..... I WANT subs like that :cool:
I am looking towards another new year´s resolution for 2022, stereo setup of dual 15" subs :)

IMHO M-215 blows svs pb16 out of the water ....:eek:

 
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Bruce53

Full Audioholic
I came across this, with the Monolith M-215 subwoofers, I can only say those subwoofers are completely unreally insane ..... I WANT subs like that :cool:
I am looking towards another new year´s resolution for 2022, stereo setup of dual 15" subs :)

IMHO M-215 blows svs pb16 out of the water ....:eek:

I have and love the M-215!
 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
I came across this, with the Monolith M-215 subwoofers, I can only say those subwoofers are completely unreally insane ..... I WANT subs like that :cool:
I am looking towards another new year´s resolution for 2022, stereo setup of dual 15" subs :)

IMHO M-215 blows svs pb16 out of the water ....:eek:

What's crazy is the Monolith 16 does too and the 13 holds up against pretty well. So you have 3 great size with different form factors all that can perform at that level for less price. That's super cool!
 
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AudioLover73

Enthusiast
That depends on what you're looking for. According to the CEA-2010 measurements in these reviews, the M-215 is only 1 dB louder than the PB-16 at 16Hz (impressive for SVS since they use half the drivers and 500 watts less power), so it certainly doesn't "blow it out of the water" when it comes to deep bass performance. But the M-215 is louder at higher frequencies.

I also wish Monoprice would make these available in piano gloss black and white finishes. Bluetooth remote control would be nice too because having to crawl behind multiple subs to adjust them is a hassle, and I like to play with the settings while I'm listening to music.

...IMHO M-215 blows svs pb16 out of the water ...
 
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AudioLover73

Enthusiast
How is it possible to keep the group delay out of the port under 1 cycle, even with DSP? Wouldn't the driver have to move BEFORE the actual sound comes from the source?
 
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AudioLover73

Enthusiast
In the review for the 13" it's noted that the driver actually has a frame size of 15 inches, so most people would consider that a 15" driver. Does the 16" in this model have a frame that measures 16 inches? If the difference in diameter is just 1 inch, most of the gains might come from the increase in enclosure size.
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
How is it possible to keep the group delay out of the port under 1 cycle, even with DSP? Wouldn't the driver have to move BEFORE the actual sound comes from the source?
It seems to be some kind of DSP trick. I have seen this in other subs from Monoprice. I have spoken to the engineer of these subs about this, and he isn't giving away the formula to the secret sauce.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
It seems to be some kind of DSP trick. I have seen this in other subs from Monoprice. I have spoken to the engineer of these subs about this, and he isn't giving away the formula to the secret sauce.
According to Floyd Toole and some other experts, group delay is so subtle (Refer to 3rd paragraph and below):

Taken from Floyd Toole's book entitled "Sound Reproduction 3rd Edition" :

"Many investigators over many years attempted to determine whether phase shift mattered to sound quality. In every case it has been shown that, if it is audible, it is a subtle effect, most easily heard through headphones or in an anechoic chamber, using carefully chosen or contrived signals.

There is quite general agreement that with music, reproduced through loudspeakers in normally reflective rooms, phase shift is substantially or completely inaudible. When it has been audible as a difference, when it is switched in and out, it is not clear that listeners had a preference.

Others looked at the audibility of group delay. They found that the detection threshold is in the range of 1.6 to 2 ms, and more in reflective spaces.These numbers are not exceeded by normal domestic and monitor loudspeakers.

Lipschitz et al. (1982) conclude: “All of the effects described can reasonably be classified as subtle. We are not, in our present state of knowledge, advocating that phase linear transducers are a requirement for high-quality sound reproduction.” Greenfield and Hawksford (1990) observe that phase effects in rooms are “very subtle effects indeed,” and seem mostly to be spatial rather than timbral. As to whether phase corrections are needed, without a phase correct recording process, any listener opinions are of personal preference, not the recognition of “accurate” reproduction."
 
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