Monitor Audio

[Sounds Simple]

Those Lovan Jazz 600 look like they might work. I'll have a better idea of the need for stands after I audition the S6s next week.

Bob

 

[Sounds Simple]

And a good dealer can bring a lot of value if he or she really knows their stuff.

I was involved in a rather heated debate at another forum a while back regarding B&Ms v. online retailers. My personal preference is to do business with a local dealer since it keeps the money in my community. Large chains like Ultimate Electronics and Tweeter remove some of that benefit since their headquarters (for most people) are somewhere else. But they, at least, provide local jobs. The online dealers lose on both these counts.

When you remove the ability to do a reasonable in-store audition of components, you have eliminated the primary pre-sales advantage that B&Ms have. What you have left is after-sales support and I'd be suspect of the quality of support if the store can't be bothered to put any effort into selling product.

That said, I feel the manufacturers are propping up an outdated distribution scheme that encourages some dealers to not act in either the manufacturer's or customer's best interest. Healthy competition between dealers (both B&Ms and online) raises the bar for all dealers and allows for different shopping experiences to meet the various needs of the different buyers. I doubt that a salesman would be so rude if he knew I could go a few miles away to buy the product from a different dealer.

Bob

 

[Rob Babcock]

Yes, that's a problem with protected areas/territories. If the dealer for your area is a jerk, you'll have trouble finding another dealer.

The old B&M model has been under assault by the internet vendor in recent years. But for all the advantages of buying online, some people will always prefer to deal with a person face to face and buy something only after he/she has had some hands-on time with it. I've purchased online and thru B&M: for me both have worked. I bought my subs & amp from Hsu research, to the tune of just over $1800 and I've been happy with them for years. My DVD-2200 I bought locally, since Denon won't honor warranties from most etailers.

I definately wouldn't have spent $1800 on a web product without having done copious research first, and it helped that they have a great guarentee. Plus they give great service before & after purchase. In the case of the Denon, I could've saved over $100 online, but I'd rather have the warrenty than the hundred bucks!

 

[Sounds Simple]

I spoke with the sales manager today and we are setup to let me do a comparo between the S2s and S6s on Tuesday. He (and the store manager) have no problem with me getting a little hands-on. I will let the sales manager know the specifics of what was said on Tuesday since I feel remarks like those made a very detrimental to B&Ms in general and this store in particular. The other salesman was very friendly when we walked in today so maybe he was just having a bad day.

I listened to the Celestial speakers again today. The speakers I am interested in are the Cygnus. These little mini-monitors are quite good for their size. Listening to some Tori Amos, I could hear her breathing during quiet passages and strings and piano sounded great. I am pretty sure that I will be using these at least for a two-channel setup.

I also listened to these guys. Listening to some bowed string bass you could hear the bow as it drew across the strings and you could hear the finger picks on a close-miked dobro.

Both the owners of this business are great guys who have as much pride in the speakers as they would in a child. The cabinets are beautiful - my favorite is Palo Ferre (Bolivian Rosewood) with an automotive gloss finish. The custom finishes are expensive but add visual component that matches the sonic quality.

Bob

 

[Rob Babcock]

Pretty speakers. What do they cost, ballpark?

 

[Sounds Simple]

Pretty speakers. What do they cost, ballpark?

The Cygnus are $1000 before custom finishes. The Sirius is $4500 and the Altair we listened to is $6900. They are redesigning the Altair with better drivers a the new capacitor-less crossover and the price is going up.

The rear speakers are also very good. They have an angular shape with a concentric tweeter/woofer on the slope. These speakers enveloped you in sound. Watching Master and Commander they provided great subtlety during the initial fly-in shot to the ship with its creaking and the sound of the ocean and responded with tremendous impact as we watched the initial battle scene.

I really encourage anyone who loves music or movies to visit these guys when in Phoenix.

Bob

 

[Sounds Simple]

Did several hours of comparison between the MA S2s and S6s today. The S6s were a clear preference: the mids are more open and the the upper midrange has better detail, the imaging and depth of of stage was pretty impressive and the added bass extension is an advantage that will allow me to defer a sub purchase for a few months (well, it could!!! ).

I think the S6s are the sweet spot in the Silver series unless you have a large room. The cost of the S6s is most likely less than the S2s plus any stands that I'd like.

Tomorrow I audiotion a 5.1 setups (S6s, LCR and S1s in the rear) then run over to the Paradigm dealer to listen to the Studio 20s, CC-470 and Atoms in the rear.

I may still give a listen to the Tannoy Sensys DC1s paired with the Sensys DCC and a pair on Sensys 1s in the rear.

Then I get to start seriously looking for electronics that mate well with whatever speakers I choose.

Bob

 

[Sounds Simple]

Spent half the day doing an audition of two 5.1 systems: Monitor Audio Silver 6s with Silver LCR and the Silver 1 bookshelfs pulling rear duty versus Paradigm Studio 20s with CC-470 and Paradigm Atoms in the rear. The Monitor Audios came out on top due to a more open midrange and less bright sound (noticed quite a bit of sibilance on Alanis Morrisette and an absence of any of the throaty voices of a number of female singers.

The dealer only offered me 10 percent off the MAs and suggested that he has less room to move on MAs. Does anyone know if dealer margins are tighter on MA speakers? I expected to see closer to 15% on the speakers and, in fact, will be calling around tomorrow I hate to take my business elsewhere since I've spent my time listening at this store but we're talking about over a $110 to be saved.

Any thoughts if 15% is expecting too much or any useful ideas for negotiating?

Bob

 

[Rob Babcock]

Back when my local deal had them, he couldn't move much on them. But I did get an open box set of FX/i surrounds for 1/3 retail! I think I really rooked their brand new salesman (he'd only been there 4 days). They were tagged $335, and I assumed that was each, but I didn't say so. I nonchalantly asked if that was per pair and he said he was sure it must be. So I bought 'em and nearly ran people over to get out of the store. I came back in a few days later for some ICs, and he admitted he got a bit of a talking to about it!

 

[Sounds Simple]

But I did get an open box set of FX/i surrounds for 1/3 retail!

Nice snag!!!

I haven't heard the Silver surrounds but I noticed they have some a pair of open FX/i marked down too. I did hear the GRFX used with a a Gold setup while comparing receivers - Denon v. Pioneer - and was pretty impressed with them. They seemed to anchor sounds while still creating a sense of a broad, open soundfield. They seemed to do better on music than many of the surround speakers I've heard.

What electronics are you (or your roommates) using to drive the MAs? Any thoughts about the Denon 3805 or 55TXi?

Thanks for any input.

Bob

 

[Rob Babcock]

I'm using a Denon AVR-3802 as a prepro. Monitor Audio 7i's/12i/FX/i's for speakers, 2 x Hsu Research TN-1220's driven by 2 x 500 watt Hsu Model 500 sub amps (fed by a Behringer DSP1100P Feedback Destroyer Pro configured as parametric bass EQ). I spin DVDs, DVD-A's & SACDs in a Denon DVD-2200, connected coaxially with a Zu Firemine cable. At the moment there's a CD player & two other DVD's in the rack, too.

I want to upgrade to a '3805, but I'm keeping a weather eye out as things change pretty fast. I keep hoping Denon will come out with a model roughly equivalent to a 3805 or 4805 but with Tripath digital amps.

I've got a pair of Bronze 3's in my B-room system, powered by a Panasonic SA-AX6. I have a Denon DCM-380 & a Pioneer DV-260S DVD player hooked up to it, and of course my P2 & Xbox. Oh, yeah- also a crappy VCR that eats tapes, but I only use it to tune the cable for my 27" tv.

 

[Sounds Simple]

Very nice systme Rob. You seem to really like the Denon stuff. I do too and think it mates pretty well with the MAs, but I'm struggling to make sense of the product lineup and pricing vis-a-vis the Pioneer offerings.

If I decide to forego the digital multi-channel connection, the options include NAD, Rotel and the Arcam AVR-300 I heard the other day at Celestial.

Bob

 

[Unregistered]

I listened to the Paradigms in in all McIntosh dedicated sound room. Same with the Monitor Audios. THe Paradigm Studio 100's were great with HT, but 2 channel listening they sounded flat, and got very bright at high volumes.

Monitor Audio - sounded good with 2 channel music but needed lots of power to shine. Did not hear them for HT.

Klipsch RF-7's blow them both away. No comparison in either low or high volume, and are great for either HT or 2 channel listening. YOu could also preview the RF-5's. I have them in my HT.

2 channel:
1979 Cornwalls Walnut/ 15 woofer/ 99dbl eficiency/ New B type crossovers
McIntosh Mc240 40 WPC rated-50WPCactual pure power / 6l6GC RCA blackplates and Telefunken 12AX7 smmothplates
Sony SCD-333ES SACD 5 disc player
MMF-7 TT
Preamp/ Blueberry built by Mark Deneen

Watch out

 

[Rob Babcock]

I really didn't much care for the Klipsch's myself; they are much better than their older speakers, but the sound just isn't there. JMOHO, of course. A lot of people really like them. I could live with them for HT. And they look really nice.

Some speakers do need quite a bit of power to really make them sing, and I agree that to some degree MA is like that. They'll work fine with a receiver, but if you can give them a solid 150 Watts they'll be happier.

Different horses for different courses, I guess. As long as you can audition your prospective choices at length there's lots of good speakers out there to choose from.

 

[Sounds Simple]

Some speakers do need quite a bit of power to really make them sing, and I agree that to some degree MA is like that. They'll work fine with a receiver, but if you can give them a solid 150 Watts they'll be happier

This is where I get torn in different directions. I feel the the MAs clearly benefit from more power so I like the idea of going separates = but separates are so much more expensive. So, I figure, I'll start with a receiver knowing that I'll add an amp down the road - but the more power I buy in the receiver, the more money I "waste" as I upgrade. I guess it is still the most sensible way to work towards separates.

I confess to drooling every time I see the Parasound Halo stuff.

Bob

 

[Rob Babcock]

A 3805 should drive the 6S's pretty well. And you could add amps at any time. Going all separates would cost a bit more, but there's some reasonalby priced ones out there (say, under $1,500). I've heard only good things about the HALO line, and if you have the cash I doubt you could go wrong.

 

[Dan]

I will say that I auditioned the silver 9i pretty heavily on two occaisions. Once it was hooked up to a Japanese receiver maybe NAD and once to Parasound separates. They definitely appreciated the extra power especially at the low end where you would expect. It took most of the brightness off the speaker which I felt the first time I heard it. It may also be true that the demos were better broken in the second time around. The bigger Denon should have plenty of punch. Also you could get a 7 channel receiver of lesser power and bi amp in a 5 channel set up. I recall that the silvers (at least the old 9i) have two sets of binding posts.

 

[Sounds Simple]

Thanks Rob and Dan.

So many decisions on how to spend money.

The MAs are going to be in the initial media room in the new house I am building. I plan on using this receiver to provide control (if not amplification) for a second zone in my office. I'm thinking that a good 5 channel amp would allow me to bi-amp the mains plus power the center (or maybe two 3-channel amps so I can bi-amp all the fronts); this would leave the receiver's amps for the surrounds and zone 2.

I also am planning on a nice simple 2-channel setup in the den: full-range speakers, integrated amp with a CD player and a turntable. I am getting more excited about this system every day. This is the system where I would use the speakers from Celestial Audio & Video in either their Figured Anigre, Pao Ferro or Zebrawood finishes.

Finally, there will also be a theater/entertainment system in the great room. I've had an equipment closet built to house the electronics. This is a large room and will require some good speakers and plenty of power so separates are a likely choice here. I also plan to use this pre-pro to control additional zones in the patio and back yard. Basically, this will be the 'public" system used for entertainment. I plan on deferring this system for about a year since the house is still 2 months from final and then I need to build a pool and landscape. The first system should get us by in the meantime.

Bob

 

[Unregistered]

If you are planning a two channel system, at least give tube equipment a try.
Speakers can vary depending on amp power: Maggies, Martin Logan. Klipsch Heritage - OOH, B&W. Although high efficiency speakers are best with tube amps.
I have a B&k REF 50, two Yamaha M80's(250wpc f&r), and a Marrantz MA500(125wpc center) with RF-5's RC3II and RCW5's for HT. Went all tube two channel and music really came to life for me. Every one is different though. Took my friends some real listening to realize and agree that tubes have a great sound.

 

[Kelly Edwards]

Monitor Audio RS8's

I recently listened to these speakers which are priced from $1000-$1300 depending on whyere you buy them. I really liked the mid range and thought that the speakers did an excellent job of seperating the different instruments when I listened to "Money or Nothing" by Dire Straits. Currently I have Definitive Technology BP6 speakers which are decent. I would consider the MA's a decent step up.

Does anyone know someone who owns these speakers and can voice an opinion?