Martin Logan 60XTi, what to power these with?

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Any of those should do fine. I might steer clear of Onkyo and Pioneer at the moment, they may not be all that serviceable in the future.
Altho realistically perhaps not any better than SoundUnited can do down the line...
 
T

TaroTaro

Enthusiast
Where are you? Seems high prices for most of those....
usaudiomart.com

Based on shadyJ and lovinthehd, apparently Onkyo and Pioneer should be avoided, along with SoundUnited which owns Marantz and Denon... so that leaves the Yamaha Aventage RX-A3070.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
usaudiomart.com

Based on shadyJ and lovinthehd, apparently Onkyo and Pioneer should be avoided, along with SoundUnited which owns Marantz and Denon... so that leaves the Yamaha Aventage RX-A3070.
LOL Yamaha has their own issues. Sound United we'll see. Yamaha does own their own facilities and has a somewhat obscure industry survey that puts them at the top of reliability, altho believe the same comments had Onkyo/Pioneer as well as Denon coming up on that list....
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Personally I like Denon, have two of theirs as well as previous experience, just good units altho menus/manuals with older units might need help from the likes of batpig
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
Following tests which were reported to have been done at the NRC in Ottawa for Sound Stage Network, this ML Motion 60XTi loudspeaker shows an impedance curve that goes down below 3 ohms between 80 and 400 Hz and with lowest values of 2 ohms at 100 Hz and at around 350 Hz. In addition, the phase angle response is really demanding with a -65° at 80 Hz. In my opinion, no AVR can handle that speaker and solid external amplification is required. The driving amplifier is actually seeing a 3 ohm speaker.


Possibly the Outlaw Monoblock would be able to handle that hard to drive speaker, but I'm not so sure. Perhaps @PENG could answer this. However, some pro audio amps such as the two channel QSC DCA 1222 definitely would, as it is specifically designed to drive in cinemas, with each channel, four 8 ohm speakers in parallel. It isn't cheap but it is reliable and you can't kill it. I'm actually using three of them in my HT:

 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Still a consideration if you feed that speaker as much as possible that it still won't be satisfactory....higher spl performance can be demanding outside these speakers' capabilities.
 
M

MDK210

Junior Audioholic
You could always try a quality receiver first then decide if you want an amp later it just depends on you. No need to have separates unless you want them so don't feel bad if you don't. The Denon X3700H tested really well on Audioscience so that's a good start but just because something has more watts definitely doesn't make it better it just depends on your lifestyle. Start small, find proper speaker placement, calibrate them and if you need more power go for it. Placement is key IMO. I think you'll be surprised by what you can get away with these days.
 
Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic General
You could always try a quality receiver first then decide if you want an amp later it just depends on you. No need to have separates unless you want them so don't feel bad if you don't. The Denon X3700H tested really well on Audioscience so that's a good start but just because something has more watts definitely doesn't make it better it just depends on your lifestyle. Start small, find proper speaker placement, calibrate them and if you need more power go for it. Placement is key IMO. I think you'll be surprised by what you can get away with these days.
Denon X3700H is nice
I’ve never used close to full wattage with my old onkyo818 . Depends what speakers and how loud he uses then .
Highest I went was thx mode which new amps don’t have or Need.
 
T

TaroTaro

Enthusiast
Ok so I think I have a good idea on what to buy.

I'm going to start with a Denon receiver (X3600H, X3700H, X4700H, etc), whatever I find the best deal on.

Then if I determine the receiver isn't enough, I'll invest in some Outlaw monoblocks.

In the meantime I'm thinking while I search for a deal on a receiver, I'll just use my old crappy Harman Kardon AVR 1510S. I won't break the speakers by using this for a few weeks will I? Don't care much if I break the receiver: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015OF18HY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Thanks, so using that calculator, with the Model 2220 amps, sitting 11ft away (my main listening position), it will get up to 109.5 dB SPL, which is uncomfortably loud. And even from my kitchen, 30 feet away, it can get to 100.8 dB SPL, which is still uncomfortably loud.

So that would make me think I don't need a 200 watt amp.

I meant to mention that I'll be getting the 50XTi for my center channel, so I'll probably need a 3rd amp correct?

Also for the receiver, I just need it to support 3 amps, HDMI eARC/CEC, and 2 subwoofers.

Thank you both for the input so far this is so helpful!
You will get about 104 dB SPL from 11 ft with 1 speaker assuming no room gain, or 107 dB if you assume 3 dB room gain that can usually be expected in the bass range. The calculator HD linked calculates based on 8 ohm nominal load. Using my own calculator, I can enter any impedance value so I entered 3 Ohm, and 300 W for the M2220 based on its 4 Ohm rating.

104 to 107 dB is of course still very loud but I agree with HD so I think the M2220 is a good match because it is good to have few dB extra power reserve on hand, even if you don't ever tap into it.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Ok so I think I have a good idea on what to buy.

I'm going to start with a Denon receiver (X3600H, X3700H, X4700H, etc), whatever I find the best deal on.

Then if I determine the receiver isn't enough, I'll invest in some Outlaw monoblocks.

In the meantime I'm thinking while I search for a deal on a receiver, I'll just use my old crappy Harman Kardon AVR 1510S. I won't break the speakers by using this for a few weeks will I? Don't care much if I break the receiver: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015OF18HY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I think you picked the right group. Of those you initially listed, the Yamaha RX-A3070 would likely be most powerful under two channel driven condition. My concern with Yamaha is that they might be a little aggressive in their protection circuitry so when the Motion 60 XTi dips below 3 Ohm, if for a little too long, the protective circuit may just trip even if it doesn't need to. Denon's seem to be more forgiving in that sense even though the X4700H may be 1 to 1.5 dB less powerful.

As Verdinut had cautioned (his comments that no avrs can drive those things may seem a little pessimistic but quite valid as a general cautionary note imo), it may still activate the protection circuit occasionally but you won't know until you try. So I would suggest you go easy on the volume initially, say keep it below -20 to begin with for a few days before venturing into the -18 and above, while check the temperature on top of the enclosure. I would also think that at least one 120 mm Infinity fan on top would be warranted.
 
T

TaroTaro

Enthusiast
Thanks! Ok I'm going to purchase two of those infinity fans, as well as a decibel meter for using my crappy receiver to make sure I don't get too loud. And I won't break my speakers by using it, but I may trip on "protection mode" on my current receiver if I go too high.

Then when I find a proper Denon receiver I'll still use those infinity fans, and stay below -20 to start.

And from there I should have enough info to decide if I want to buy some amps to go along with the receiver.

Whew.....so I'm ready to tackle these speakers now! Thanks a ton everyone for all the friendly help I've learned quite a bit in a short time!
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
I think you picked the right group. Of those you initially listed, the Yamaha RX-A3070 would likely be most powerful under two channel driven condition. My concern with Yamaha is that they might be a little aggressive in their protection circuitry so when the Motion 60 XTi dips below 3 Ohm, if for a little too long, the protective circuit may just trip even if it doesn't need to. Denon's seem to be more forgiving in that sense even though the X4700H may be 1 to 1.5 dB less powerful.

As Verdinut had cautioned (his comments that no avrs can drive those things may seem a little pessimistic but quite valid as a general cautionary note imo), it may still activate the protection circuit occasionally but you won't know until you try. So I would suggest you go easy on the volume initially, say keep it below -20 to begin with for a few days before venturing into the -18 and above, while check the temperature on top of the enclosure. I would also think that at least one 120 mm Infinity fan on top would be warranted.
In my previous post, I was questioning whether an Outlaw Monoblock amp would be at ease to handle for all practical purposes that 3 ohm speaker. Would you share your opinion?
Also, wouldn't it be a good idea to suggest to Amir to test amplifiers for their handling of 2 ohm loads as well, for a short period of time, let's say 30 seconds or so? That would clarify the situation as to which amps have the better power supplies.
 
T

TheTallOne89

Audioholic Intern
I have these speakers in a 5.2.2 setup with a Denon 3700. I have not had any trouble with headroom. My room is weirdly shaped and the listening space is not as big, but still. I would try an AVR first, I bet it is all you need.
 
T

TaroTaro

Enthusiast
I have these speakers in a 5.2.2 setup with a Denon 3700. I have not had any trouble with headroom. My room is weirdly shaped and the listening space is not as big, but still. I would try an AVR first, I bet it is all you need.
Thanks, that's good to hear, I'm thinking of eventually doing a 5.2.4 setup, but that's a ways away, glad to hear another pov.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
In my previous post, I was questioning whether an Outlaw Monoblock amp would be at ease to handle for all practical purposes that 3 ohm speaker. Would you share your opinion?
Also, wouldn't it be a good idea to suggest to Amir to test amplifiers for their handling of 2 ohm loads as well, for a short period of time, let's say 30 seconds or so? That would clarify the situation as to which amps have the better power supplies.
I did share my opinion on the M2220, said it could be a good match for the OP, but it always depend..
Yes we can of course suggest Amir to test for 2 Ohm load but that would be for real power amps rated for 4 Ohms. I would suggest it to be done to AVRs and integrated amps because it wouldn't be fair to whoever send him the devices. 30 second would likely be too long for the lesser amps, so properly start with 5 to 10 seconds and see what happens first.:D
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I have these speakers in a 5.2.2 setup with a Denon 3700. I have not had any trouble with headroom. My room is weirdly shaped and the listening space is not as big, but still. I would try an AVR first, I bet it is all you need.
How far do you sit, and the spl you mostly listen to if you don't mind sharing? Thank you.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
I did share my opinion on the M2220, said it could be a good match for the OP, but it always depend..
Yes we can of course suggest Amir to test for 2 Ohm load but that would be for real power amps rated for 4 Ohms. I would suggest it to be done to AVRs and integrated amps because it wouldn't be fair to whoever send him the devices. 30 second would likely be too long for the lesser amps, so properly start with 5 to 10 seconds and see what happens first.:D
Are you willing to contact him in that regard?
 

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