Martin Logan 60XTi, what to power these with?

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TaroTaro

Enthusiast
Just got a great deal on these locally! Paid $1800 for a pair in mint condition!

So now I have these speakers, but no idea what to power these with. Eventually I'll be doing a 3.2 (maybe 5.2) setup. I'm assuming I'll need a receiver and an amp since these are power hungry. But there's so many options and conflicting viewpoints that I don't know what to purchase.

My room is 35x15x9ft, and I listen to my tv/music medium/loud.

As far as budget goes I just want something that's good, and will allow me to enjoy these properly. I'm not too interested in spending $500 extra for them to sound 1% better, but also don't want to cheap out if something nicer will make a noticeable difference.

Thanks in advance for the advice!
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Well your avr would need pre-outs, and that generally gets you a pretty complete feature set. Hard to know what features you want, tho. Some of those same avrs won't have significantly different power for those two speakers from 200wpc amps, tho. Nice for an amp to have lower impedance capabilities and more watts, but you're a good candidate in a room so large, especially if your listening distances are long. Might even not be enough speaker.

ps You might want to play around with your numbers with something like this http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html
 
T

TaroTaro

Enthusiast
Well your avr would need pre-outs, and that generally gets you a pretty complete feature set. Hard to know what features you want, tho. Some of those same avrs won't have significantly different power for those two speakers from 200wpc amps, tho. Nice for an amp to have lower impedance capabilities and more watts, but you're a good candidate in a room so large, especially if your listening distances are long. Might even not be enough speaker.

ps You might want to play around with your numbers with something like this http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html
Thanks, so using that calculator, with the Model 2220 amps, sitting 11ft away (my main listening position), it will get up to 109.5 dB SPL, which is uncomfortably loud. And even from my kitchen, 30 feet away, it can get to 100.8 dB SPL, which is still uncomfortably loud.

So that would make me think I don't need a 200 watt amp.

I meant to mention that I'll be getting the 50XTi for my center channel, so I'll probably need a 3rd amp correct?

Also for the receiver, I just need it to support 3 amps, HDMI eARC/CEC, and 2 subwoofers.

Thank you both for the input so far this is so helpful!
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Thanks, so using that calculator, with the Model 2220 amps, sitting 11ft away (my main listening position), it will get up to 109.5 dB SPL, which is uncomfortably loud. And even from my kitchen, 30 feet away, it can get to 100.8 dB SPL, which is still uncomfortably loud.

So that would make me think I don't need a 200 watt amp.

I meant to mention that I'll be getting the 50XTi for my center channel, so I'll probably need a 3rd amp correct?

Also for the receiver, I just need it to support 3 amps, HDMI eARC/CEC, and 2 subwoofers.

Thank you both for the input so far this is so helpful!
You might as well just use an AVR. Many midrange AVRs can pump out over 100 watts over two channels at 8 ohms. Look at AVRs in the $1000 to $1500 range, they should have plenty of power for the front stage of an ML XTi system. One thing to keep in mind about these SPL calculators is that the loudspeaker sensitivities are many times inflated by a bit.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Well you also want some fudge factor built in when using a calculator, your speakers sensitivity isn't necessarily representative of the full range or even on same basis (like Klipsch uses an "in-room" equivalent instead of anechoic) and likewise having a sub take some of the lower end power duties away helps otoh. Some that prefer 2.0 for their main listening wouldn't worry about the center, and the center would have a bit extra available to it with the avr offloaded from L/R duties to an extent, others consider 3 power amps across the front better. A little extra headroom isn't a bad thing in any case.

eARC is because you will source lossless audio from a tv? I don't even use ARC, I don't source audio from a tv whatsoever, it's just a display in my use.

I'd start with an avr alone, one with pre-outs is my preference for flexibility, tho. The better amp sections are likely in those same avrs with a full set of pre-outs, too. Also generally a better room EQ software if you want that.
 
T

TaroTaro

Enthusiast
You might as well just use an AVR. Many midrange AVRs can pump out over 100 watts over two channels at 8 ohms. Look at AVRs in the $1000 to $1500 range, they should have plenty of power for the front stage of an ML XTi system. One thing to keep in mind about these SPL calculators is that the loudspeaker sensitivities are many times inflated by a bit.
Ok, well I found this on Crutchfield, it does 100 watts at 8 ohms. However the 60XTi's have an impedance of 4 ohms, does that not matter too much?

Well you also want some fudge factor built in when using a calculator, your speakers sensitivity isn't necessarily representative of the full range or even on same basis (like Klipsch uses an "in-room" equivalent instead of anechoic) and likewise having a sub take some of the lower end power duties away helps otoh. Some that prefer 2.0 for their main listening wouldn't worry about the center, and the center would have a bit extra available to it with the avr offloaded from L/R duties to an extent, others consider 3 power amps across the front better. A little extra headroom isn't a bad thing in any case.

eARC is because you will source lossless audio from a tv? I don't even use ARC, I don't source audio from a tv whatsoever, it's just a display in my use.

I'd start with an avr alone, one with pre-outs is my preference for flexibility, tho. The better amp sections are likely in those same avrs with a full set of pre-outs, too. Also generally a better room EQ software if you want that.
Ok, so you're saying I should get an AVR with the ability to add amps in the future, just in case I buy the amp and realize, "dang I need more power"?

And no, my audio comes from my devices (NVIDIA Shield, PS5, etc), so I guess I don't need eARC.

Makes me wonder if I can just find an older used AVR, with 100 watts, support for 3 amps, 2 subs.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Ok, well I found this on Crutchfield, it does 100 watts at 8 ohms. However the 60XTi's have an impedance of 4 ohms, does that not matter too much?



Ok, so you're saying I should get an AVR with the ability to add amps in the future, just in case I buy the amp and realize, "dang I need more power"?

And no, my audio comes from my devices (NVIDIA Shield, PS5, etc), so I guess I don't need eARC.

Makes me wonder if I can just find an older used AVR, with 100 watts, support for 3 amps, 2 subs.
Marantz and Denon avrs may not be 4 ohm monsters, but they can handle the load generally (better in the upper level models). Look at my Denon 4520's bench test for an idea https://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-4520ci-av-receiver-test-bench

A used avr may well be a good idea, people are always getting rid of perfectly good ones while they upgrade for a codec/video thing.
 
T

TaroTaro

Enthusiast
Marantz and Denon avrs may not be 4 ohm monsters, but they can handle the load generally (better in the upper level models). Look at my Denon 4520's bench test for an idea https://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-4520ci-av-receiver-test-bench

A used avr may well be a good idea, people are always getting rid of perfectly good ones while they upgrade for a codec/video thing.
If I'm understanding your article (thanks for sharing btw). Your showing that your Denon AVR, with a 4ohm speaker, needs to get up to 237.5 watts before it hits a 0.1% distortion. So in order for me to ever experience that, I'll need to have a amp that does 200+ watts.

So in conclusion, if I get that Marantz SR 5014 AVR, which does 100 watts, I shouldn't notice any distortion at 4 ohms. But if I were to decide that I need more power and buy some amps, say a 300 watt amp. Above 237.5 watts I may regret buying that AVR, because I'll start to notice distortion.

Did I understand that correctly?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
If I'm understanding your article (thanks for sharing btw). Your showing that your Denon AVR, with a 4ohm speaker, needs to get up to 237.5 watts before it hits a 0.1% distortion. So in order for me to ever experience that, I'll need to have a amp that does 200+ watts.

So in conclusion, if I get that Marantz SR 5014 AVR, which does 100 watts, I shouldn't notice any distortion at 4 ohms. But if I were to decide that I need more power and buy some amps, say a 300 watt amp. Above 237.5 watts I may regret buying that AVR, because I'll start to notice distortion.

Did I understand that correctly?
Not really. Distortion and power level are on a curve unique to each amp. Quoted distortion levels are just a point on the curve suitable for advertisement. Some amps can introduce a lot more power and distortion if you ask it to. Will you need that much power is more the question? It is dependent on spl level, sensitivity of speakers, distance from speakers, room.

ps Audibility of .1% thd is extremely doubtful. Use the spl calculator I linked to get a better idea of just basic power relationships to distance/speaker sensitivity.
 
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Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic General
Not really. Distortion and power level are on a curve unique to each amp. Quoted distortion levels are just a point on the curve suitable for advertisement. Some amps can introduce a lot more power and distortion if you ask it to. Will you need that much power is more the question? It is dependent on spl level, sensitivity of speakers, distance from speakers, room.
Denon x4500 is good when on sale $1200 or less . If you need more channels add power amplifier, if it allows
It .
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Spartan
FWIW, @4Ohms, the Outlaw Monoblocks will put out a conservative 300w. I have 5 of the last generation, the 2200. Great little Amps. Do I use them in a way that pushes them to their limits? Not even close, in fact I recognize that most of the time I am barely tapping their potential.
...But for those occasional moments when I AM pushing it, watching Godzilla Anime destroy everything... ;)

Dynamic Headroom is an important consideration. For my speakers, I need about 250w to be able to hit Reference level Dynamic Peaks. I may never push it for those last 3 dB, but I got it, which means my speakers are at least getting clean power all the way up.

Now if you consider the Denon and Marantz 70% "rule," they say in multichannel listening, you can expect about 70% of the rated power being available to all channels (5.x, 7.x...).
 
T

TaroTaro

Enthusiast
Ok a lot of good points here, so:

The Marantz SR5014/Denons may be able to handle the load, but I should go for either a more expensive one or a different brand (Sony/Yamaha?) because they handle the load at 4 ohms better (Denon AVR-X3700H maybe?)

Also the Denon x4500 is a good one, I'll add that to my list, seems to be discontinued but I may be able to find a used one.

Also if I do buy a Denon/Marantz, I should only expect 70% of their output, so 70 watts for one marketed as 100 watts.

And again, I should get an AVR that can support 3 amps, because when I turn on Godzilla Anime, I may want more power. But I can decide on this in the future.

Correct?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
From a glance at the specs for the Marantz 5014 vs Denon 3700 the Denon has definite advantages in channel processing, REQ version, ability to handle two subs at different level/delays. Not really comparable. Are they similar in price?

The 70% ACD rating is of extemely limited importance. That you would need simultaneous full output in all channels is limited, altho there is different sensitivity levels between main/surrounds that can come into play somewhat. Generally the surrounds simply don't need as much power in a surround mode, now if you use it in a goofy mode like all channel stereo, or full range for speakers and no subs, could be more important.
 
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Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic General
FWIW, @4Ohms, the Outlaw Monoblocks will put out a conservative 300w. I have 5 of the last generation, the 2200. Great little Amps. Do I use them in a way that pushes them to their limits? Not even close, in fact I recognize that most of the time I am barely tapping their potential.
...But for those occasional moments when I AM pushing it, watching Godzilla Anime destroy everything... ;)

Dynamic Headroom is an important consideration. For my speakers, I need about 250w to be able to hit Reference level Dynamic Peaks. I may never push it for those last 3 dB, but I got it, which means my speakers are at least getting clean power all the way up.

Now if you consider the Denon and Marantz 70% "rule," they say in multichannel listening, you can expect about 70% of the rated power being available to all channels (5.x, 7.x...).
Wish I could afford monoblocks , I don’t have a anything that would need them tho so useless . Klipch icons get ear bleeding loud on no wattage , onkyo 818 isn’t even stressed ....
I need better speakers before receiver/ amplifiers. It’s just they come in huge boxes afraid to ask my mom when I get money...
Next infinity sale I should get center speaker , not sure if I need matching towers tbh ...

what’s the cheapest amp today with outputs for additional amplifier, my onkyo 818 I think has inputs for one .. Ijust have no reason for 9ch no atmos just audysee dsx no room for height .
 
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T

TaroTaro

Enthusiast
So I looked at the used AVR market, and found a couple of used ones in good condition:

Marantz 7011 - $980
Yamaha Aventage RX-A3070 - $1000
Onkyo TX-RZ820 - $800
Pioneer Elite SC-LX701 - $825
Denon AVR-X4500H - $1050

I'm thinking that Marantz is the best deal, but I also half sleep typing this.

Open to suggestions on these used ones I found, will probably buy one tomorrow.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Where are you? Seems high prices for most of those....
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
So I looked at the used AVR market, and found a couple of used ones in good condition:

Marantz 7011 - $980
Yamaha Aventage RX-A3070 - $1000
Onkyo TX-RZ820 - $800
Pioneer Elite SC-LX701 - $825
Denon AVR-X4500H - $1050

I'm thinking that Marantz is the best deal, but I also half sleep typing this.

Open to suggestions on these used ones I found, will probably buy one tomorrow.
Any of those should do fine. I might steer clear of Onkyo and Pioneer at the moment, they may not be all that serviceable in the future.
 

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