Main speaker as center

M

m3incorp

Audioholic Intern
That may be one of the reasons this house is called mine. :) Wife determines what goes in the main home and I determine "mostly" what goes in this one. Many people would pitch a fit about not putting the TV above the fireplace, drilling holes in the wall, etc. Same goes for she buys the car she wants and I buy the one I want. I call it a compromise....so glad that we all have different likes and dislikes, makes for a much more interesting world.

Lookin good! My wife would pitch a fit over the lamp on the subwoofer though lol. Her words “speakers are not tables!”
 
GrimSurfer

GrimSurfer

Senior Audioholic
That’s something I’ve been thinking about for my next upgrade. Towers or bookshelves. If I went with bookshelves I’d potentially have more budget for even better subs. I have my towers crossed at 60hz as it is, so I may better off with higher quality bookshelves anyway.
Here's my take (which not everyone will agree with):

1. Any decent bookshelf will be capable of delivering sound down to 80 Hz without much of a reduction of spl. Any decent sub has the ability to reach 200 Hz, though one may wish to adjust the cut off well below that.

2. A really good tower can get down to about 40 Hz. After that spl drops, so a sub is still required.

3. The cost savings accrued through buying bookshelves can be considerable, leaving enough money for a better sub or more subs.

4. Bass quality improves with two or more subs. This is important because low frequency modes are notoriously difficult (some would say impossible in practical terms) to tame when one sub is used in anything but a free space or anechoic chamber.

6. A low reaching tower can reduce modes, but only up to the point of cut off. 40-50 Hz modes are common for most medium sized listening spaces, so a tower can still work here. But modal reduction at 40-50 Hz means nothing for modes or bass quality at lower frequencies.

6. It makes more sense to have a bookshelf based 2.2 or 3.2 set up rather than a comparably priced tower-based 2.1 or 3.1 set up, assuming that you're operating with a fixed budget.

May have skipped a logic step or two... it's been a long day!
 
M

m3incorp

Audioholic Intern
↑ I agree that in many instances, bookshelf speakers make a heck of a lot of sense. I've gone that route on some occasions and a lot of other people have also. There are some very good quality bookshelves out there. The frequency cut-offs should not be the determining factor, as very inferior speakers can have specs that show frequencies down to the 80 Hz range. I would definitely recommend a good quality bookshelf speaker. Keep in mind, there are many people that prefer a great front soundstage over the low frequency (bass)...and there are those that want the best all around sound to include the low frequency.
 
GrimSurfer

GrimSurfer

Senior Audioholic
I agree. Frequency range is a very rough indicator or performance... one of many. That said, a driver-package's ability to cover off the audible range is a minimum requirement.

Since neither towers nor bookshelf speakers (at normal prices) can cover 20-20kHz with any fidelity, both usually require sub(s).

The trade-offs can be complex, with the potential for success equally applying to both bookshelfs + subs and towers + subs until average prices are factored into the equation.

Either way one goes, I'd be hard pressed saying that one is always better than the other. My sense though is that one is easier than the other once price is fixed.
 
M

m3incorp

Audioholic Intern
I agree....mostly. :) Personal budgets have a big say in the equation...keeping in mind there are some expensive bookshelves and towers.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
It’s also easier to return bookshelves than towers if you are auditioning in your home.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
This might be a dumb question, but is using the same tower speaker as a center speaker bad or ideal?
I use 5 identical speakers for my 5.1.4 system.

Using 5 identical speakers is ideal.

All good, man. All good. :D
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I tend to lean this way but @shadyJ has that article where it shows 100hz bass is creating the chest slam. I’m thinking nice subs with bookshelves crossed over up high like 120hz might be fun too. :)
I set the crossover at 120Hz regardless of the speakers I owned (Salon2, 802D, etc.). :D

The key to me is Dynamics - if your speakers + subs can play as loud as you desire with minimal distortion, it doesn't matter if it's a bookshelf or tower.
 
djembeman

djembeman

Enthusiast
SEF_Makaro, This is exactly as I envision my setup after reading elsewhere on Audioholics about using a sound transparent projector screen. All of this just because we are trying to use the same speaker for left/right/center and a wall mounted TV. 100% what I am about to do. What is the wooden box in the far right corner? And absorption wall treatment above that?

I was wondering for my equipment racks, if it is better to have them wide open for air, or if it's better to have them enclosed with glass fronts so that they prevent dust from getting on the electronics? Need to buy a pair, since I currently have a TV stand I am using. Thanks for sharing your setup.

I will most likely upgrade my towers (eventually) because the Infinity Primus series is discontinued. I was thinking of using my Elac Uni-Fi center placed vertically on a speaker stand, or at least seeing what that sounds like. From what I've read the orientation of a center channel speaker horizontally is what causes problems. I might even be able to fit a regular bookshelf on top of my TV stand instead of the center speaker. When I upgraded to the Elac Center my front sound improved quite a bit. The Infinity Primus PC250 (something-model-number) sounded pretty bad and I always had to turn it up really high to hear dialogue. The Elac is 4 ohm and I don't have to crank it up. The design of the Elac with the tweeter built in to the midrange might be a good design for a horizontal center speaker. Maybe I don't even need to worry about all of this?!?! It sounds good, but I guess that's the problem with home audio. You always want to tweek something.

Edit- this also puts my center channel tweeter closer to the TV.

65" Samsung KS8000
Onkyo TX-RZ830 receiver
Infinity Primus P363 Towers
Elac Uni-Fi C5 Center
HSU VTF-2 MK5 Sub
Infinity Primus P153 Surrounds
Fluance XPBP Bipolar Rear Surrounds
NHT SuperZero 2.1 Satellite front heights
Looking at my equipment in my room I will be able to fit two small racks and a tower in-between my left and right towers. I have 9 feet in between my tweeters and 9 feet to my center seat position. Right now I have a Q Acoustics 3020 sitting on top of my TV stand to test out a regular speaker as my center. It is sounding very clear, like laser focus dialogue! It's only 11 inches tall and fits well! I'll have to test it out more.
 

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William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Looks pretty cool. Just curious, are those height speakers as a plIIz arrangement? Or are those for atmos as front height? If you still have your tool box out, it might be a good time to move them up. They’re really pretty low.
 
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