Looking for Subwoofer Suggestions for HT Room (WiP)

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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I'd say the improvements are still fairly minor in terms of comparing in general....don't focus too much on minute detail/overthinking it.
The improvements are major, not minor, over both models. The present 15" driver that Hsu is far better. Those older subs were very good but they couldn't get close to 117dB at any point in CEA-2010 testing. The difference is very real in testing and real-world use.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
The improvements are major, not minor, over both models. The present 15" driver that Hsu is far better. Those older subs were very good but they couldn't get close to 117dB at any point in CEA-2010 testing. The difference is very real in testing and real-world use.
Can you elaborate? I was thinking more in terms of comparisons of the models relative to each other than specifric performance points, but is there a graph to compare the particular differences?
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Btw the data sheet thread from 2014, doesn't seem to have been updated for the newer subs, correct?

And is there any data for HSU subs @ 12.5 Hz for VTF 15H MK2 & VTF 3 MK5? @shadyJ
And it seems these 2 subs never got a full review, there is a preview article but no full review, unless I missed it.
I have a lot of data for the VTF-15h mk2, but I never published it. Now that I think about it, I should add it to the bassaholics spreadsheet. We never ran a full review on the VTF-3 mk5 or the VTF-15h mk2. I wasn't a writer for Audioholics at that point in time.
I complied some data together, and I wish I had the 12.5Hz or 14Hz extension readings. The Red is the highest output followed by Orange and Yellow. The VTF3 is a really good value at its price point. At 15H the Monoprice seems better when its on sale.

View attachment 44012
One thing that isn't quite reflected in that sheet is just how smoothly the Monolith 15" handles deep bass. It handles deep bass more smoothly at its limits than the Hsu or SVS subs. You can hear that the Hsu and SVS subs are a bit more stressed when pushed hard at the low end, even for the same SPL.

I think the numbers from the Hsu subs are taken from Hsu's website. Hsu actually tends to be a tad conservative in their reportage of CEA-2010. I think I was able to get a bit more out of the VTF-15h mk2 that I tested, but not a whole lot more. I would have to go back to look at my data. It wouldn't change the overall story told by your numbers very much. The story is that the PB-3000 and VTF-15h mk2 are pretty much even at 30Hz and above. The VTF15h and Monolith 15" have a bit more extension and can dig down to 16Hz whereas the PB-3000 is not that happy at 16Hz. When pushed hard, the Monolith 15" has more finesse at 25Hz and below.

One thing to consider is how easy it is to handle these subs. The Monolith 15" is a major pain to try to move around, another world compared to the VTF-15h and PB-3000. You have to take the logistics of moving it seriously. It is pretty difficult to handle, even with two people lifting. If you are moving it up or down a flight of stairs, you need a dolly that can handle that- you are not going to be able to handle that without a dolly or shoulder strap, even with two people. The PB-3000 is a total piece of cake to move around for a sub of its performance. I can carry it up and down the stairs by myself, and I am hardly a powerlifter. The VTF-15h mk2 is kind of in between. You will need two people to lift it since it's big, but it's not a chore to do that when you do have two people, it's pretty easy. When you have it in room, it's easy to walk into place.
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Can you elaborate? I was thinking more in terms of comparisons of the models relative to each other than specifric performance points, but is there a graph to compare the particular differences?
Relative to each other, the original VTF-15h would have had a fair bit more output at 25Hz and above compared to the VTF-3 mk3. That isn't true for the VTF-3 mk5/VTF-15h mk2 comparison. I don't think there is a graph that you can compare these. I have a VTF-3 mk3, but I never had a chance to test it. I should, one of these days. Hsu might have that data for the VTF-3 mk3, they might be willing to share it if you ask, maybe.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Relative to each other, the original VTF-15h would have had a fair bit more output at 25Hz and above compared to the VTF-3 mk3. That isn't true for the VTF-3 mk5/VTF-15h mk2 comparison. I don't think there is a graph that you can compare these. I have a VTF-3 mk3, but I never had a chance to test it. I should, one of these days. Hsu might have that data for the VTF-3 mk3, they might be willing to share it if you ask, maybe.
But how significant are the differences between "Mk"s with Hsu.....should they simply have different model designations with changes in amp/driver/box?
 
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i_max

Junior Audioholic
But how significant are the differences between "Mk"s with Hsu.....should they simply have different model designations with changes in amp/driver/box?
From what I have read of the reviews (if I remember correctly, I have read a bunch of different reviews) the VTF3 MK5 out paces the VT 15H Mk1, quite easily. So the differences are not subtle, it can be read through in the preview that Audioholics did.

I have a lot of data for the VTF-15h mk2, but I never published it. Now that I think about it, I should add it to the bassaholics spreadsheet. We never ran a full review on the VTF-3 mk5 or the VTF-15h mk2. I wasn't a writer for Audioholics at that point in time.

One thing that isn't quite reflected in that sheet is just how smoothly the Monolith 15" handles deep bass. It handles deep bass more smoothly at its limits than the Hsu or SVS subs. You can hear that the Hsu and SVS subs are a bit more stressed when pushed hard at the low end, even for the same SPL.

I think the numbers from the Hsu subs are taken from Hsu's website. Hsu actually tends to be a tad conservative in their reportage of CEA-2010. I think I was able to get a bit more out of the VTF-15h mk2 that I tested, but not a whole lot more. I would have to go back to look at my data. It wouldn't change the overall story told by your numbers very much. The story is that the PB-3000 and VTF-15h mk2 are pretty much even at 30Hz and above. The VTF15h and Monolith 15" have a bit more extension and can dig down to 16Hz whereas the PB-3000 is not that happy at 16Hz. When pushed hard, the Monolith 15" has more finesse at 25Hz and below.

One thing to consider is how easy it is to handle these subs. The Monolith 15" is a major pain to try to move around, another world compared to the VTF-15h and PB-3000. You have to take the logistics of moving it seriously. It is pretty difficult to handle, even with two people lifting. If you are moving it up or down a flight of stairs, you need a dolly that can handle that- you are not going to be able to handle that without a dolly or shoulder strap, even with two people. The PB-3000 is a total piece of cake to move around for a sub of its performance. I can carry it up and down the stairs by myself, and I am hardly a powerlifter. The VTF-15h mk2 is kind of in between. You will need two people to lift it since it's big, but it's not a chore to do that when you do have two people, it's pretty easy. When you have it in room, it's easy to walk into place.
Yes I believe what I saw is, you guys extrapolated the numbers taken from the HSU @ 1m, I think reducing 9db to compensate for 2m readings.

I feel like, even if the VTF 3 MK5 has some extension in the 12.5Hz range, I'll pull the trigger on that, the room gain and and a 2nd sub will take care of my room really well in most cases I think especially for costing close to ~$1950 for a pair. If I head to the next step ~$1200, I feel the Monolith is the ultimate champ for that price range. Ridiculously good performance. If it had gone on sale the last few days, I'd already pulled the trigger, If I can't settle for the VTF 3, then I'll very likely stick with the Monolith.

I do actually have my in laws dolly, we just moved into this house last month, and I can bring it to my basement from outside with a friends help. Once I do the crawl, I don't know when I'll move it, I guess it will be like a piece of furniture.

The PBS-3000 is such a good sub, but that roll off below 16hz, and the lack of a single closed port option, lets it down in pure performance.

I called HSU today and they don't have the numbers below 16hz for any subs. I have tried looking online with no success so far.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
But how significant are the differences between "Mk"s with Hsu.....should they simply have different model designations with changes in amp/driver/box?
The MK range seems to be more about price point with a certain design type. The VTF-3 mk5 was such a huge leap in performance over the previous VTF-3s. Previously they were 12"s that went through iterative changes but the overall design remained the same. The mk5 changed that, but it didn't raise the price dramatically over previous VTF-3s. Same thing with the other VTF subs and also ULS-15.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Yes I believe what I saw is, you guys extrapolated the numbers taken from the HSU @ 1m, I think reducing 9db to compensate for 2m readings.

I feel like, even if the VTF 3 MK5 has some extension in the 12.5Hz range, I'll pull the trigger on that, the room gain and and a 2nd sub will take care of my room really well in most cases I think especially for costing close to ~$1950 for a pair. If I head to the next step ~$1200, I feel the Monolith is the ultimate champ for that price range. Ridiculously good performance. If it had gone on sale the last few days, I'd already pulled the trigger, If I can't settle for the VTF 3, then I'll very likely stick with the Monolith.

I called HSU today and they don't have the numbers below 16hz for any subs. I have tried looking online with no success so far.
12.5Hz is outside of the intended range of operation for all of these subs. I wouldn't expect much output in that range. Even if you had it, you wouldn't know it unless you measured it since it is so difficult to perceive. I don't know about the VTF-3, but I know that the VTF-15h mk2 has some output left in that region, but I wouldn't go chasing after frequencies below the tuning point of any ported sub.
 
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i_max

Junior Audioholic
12.5Hz is outside of the intended range of operation for all of these subs. I wouldn't expect much output in that range. Even if you had it, you wouldn't know it unless you measured it since it is so difficult to perceive. I don't know about the VTF-3, but I know that the VTF-15h mk2 has some output left in that region, but I wouldn't go chasing after frequencies below the tuning point of any ported sub.
I'm sorry a newbie question, what would be the tuning point of these subs - VTF3/15 etc? and what is that. Maybe 14hz would have some readings? I'm just trying to compare to the VTF 15H & Monolith and see how it can compare to these subs.
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I'm sorry a newbie question, what would be the tuning point of these subs - VTF3/15 etc? and what is that. Maybe 14hz would have some readings? I'm just trying to compare to the VTF 15H & Monolith and see how it can compare to these subs.
for the VTF-3 mk5, I believe the tuning points are 18Hz and 25Hz. For the VTF-15h, I think they are 16Hz and 22Hz. For the Monolith 15", I think it is something like 17Hz and 25Hz. For the Monolith, more of the extension is electronically induced rather than mechanically induced, meaning it is done by EQ. The VTF subs rely on their ports more, so the maximum headroom is more affected by the tuning point than the Monolith 15". In the Monolith 15", you can set the extension to whatever ported mode that you want, and run it as hard as you want. It's electronically limited from being over-driven no matter what port configuration you use. In the VTF subs, you need to set the EQ switch to EQ2 if you are going to use the subs with both ports open. That sets the protective limiter from allowing the driver to move too freely since it doesn't have as much back pressure because both ports are open. So the Monolith 15" is a sub you don't have to worry about port configuration very much when you set the EQ, since having only 2 ports open only slightly affects the outcome from having 3 ports open since EQ is doing a lot of the work. But that means it isn't taking advantage of its ports as much as the VTF subs. The VTF subs are wringing more performance out their the ports and enclosures.
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Samurai
Haha which song are you all talking about?
Lass Mich Raus by Noisex. It's got some very deep bass in the 15-20 Hz range. It's what I play for people when they want to see what my sub can do (or they need help with their digestion).
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Samurai
Spotify claims to have it, but when I try to play it I get a message saying "not available". Maybe you need to pay to get it, not sure.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Spotify claims to have it, but when I try to play it I get a message saying "not available". Maybe you need to pay to get it, not sure.
I pay and there's not even a listing for Noisex other than a user.
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Samurai
I pay and there's not even a listing for Noisex other than a user.
weird, a google search for the song brings me to the album page on Spotify. Maybe they used to have it and don't any longer?
 

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