Looking for some sound advice

[OUTCAST]

I'm new to the Audioholics forum. I'm looking for some opinions and advice. I especially would appreciate hearing anyone's experience with the RX-A2070 or 2080.

I can't say that I am pleased with the sound I'm getting out of my setup. I think it might have to do with the cross-over setup. 80Hz isn't working well IMO. If I set it lower for the Front Speakers, will that send less signal to the sub? I want a bit fuller sound stage. My front speakers are pretty wide apart, and the drivers are relatively high (you can see the doorway next to my sub). Any suggestions on configuring/tweaking?

My living room has terrible acoustics—hardwood floors and an off-centered vaulted ceiling that goes from 8-feet to about 15-feet. One sidewall (right) is almost all glass, and the other wall opens up into a significant entryway. Besides a rather large sofa in the center of the room and a nice size area rug on the floor, I don't have much to absorb or cancel reflective sound. My AV receiver is a few years old, it's a Yamaha RX-A2070, and I am using it to power a 5.1 speaker setup. The front speakers are Klipsch RF-82 ii's that I have bi-amped. The center channel is output through two Klipsch RC-62's, and the left and right surround speakers are in the ceiling behind my sofa. They're Klipsch CDT-5800-Cii's. I have an SVS SB16-Ultra sub.

 

[Mark E. Long]

Those mains look to be pretty high up to me that could be a concern to the soundstage as you really want the tweeters to Be on the same plane as the center at ear level .and I’d think running two centers side by side could cause some problems aswell . Iam sure others will jump in on this with more ideas than me .

 

[Eppie]

Those mains look to be pretty high up to me that could be a concern to the soundstage as you really want the tweeters to Be on the same plane as the center at ear level .and I’d think running two centers side by side could cause some problems as well . I am sure others will jump in on this with more ideas than me .

Yes, those are the first things that come to mind. A more typically setup would have been good bookshelf speakers for mains to get them ear level, and a single matching center channel. Those things should not be too difficult to test: placing the mains on the floor and running a single center speaker, but any room correction will have to be run again. The two centers like that will likely cause interference. The downside on moving the towers to the floor is the op might loose some room gain by moving the speakers away from the wall, which might be the opposite of what the op wants if the sound is lacking in the bottom end.

The question is what frequencies are lacking? Is it the mid bass from the towers or the lower frequencies? Hard to know without measurements. How does the bass response change as you walk around the room? Trying the sub in different locations might change things, or increasing the crossover instead of lowering it if the sub is capable (which the SUB-16 is). If the bass lacks in some areas but is boomy in others, another sub might be needed to even out the response within the room. If things improve with the towers on the floor, but the op can't leave them there, some other changes may be in order.

As to bi-amping, have a look at this video:

 

[lovinthehd]

Or just read the article if like me and find that better than watching a video https://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring

Yes, if you lower the crossover you'll get "less" sub. Might try raising it, too.

Like the others said on speaker height....I suppose you can't place them on the floor out in the room some?

ps missed the double center thing altogether, thought it was just a long one Yeah I'd maybe try one below and one above the screen, but not side by side....

 

[shadyJ]

The double Klipsch center speaker setup is disastrous. That is likely to be a comb-filtering nightmare. The Klipsch centers are not very good on their own, and two side-by-side is extremely problematic. The towers are mounted way too high. It's possible the ground bounce cancellation you could be getting in mid-bass would be severe. You may also be seated in an angle where the crossover cancellation leaves a big gap in the response.

You are right that the acoustics of that room are not optimal. Unless you can deploy treatments, you will just have to live with that. "Room Correction" equalization such as Audyssey or YPAO will not be able to help you there.

The AVR is fine. The subwoofer and crossover frequency should be OK. The problem is the room and the speaker setup. First things first, get rid of one of those center speakers. Second, get left and right speakers which have a level height with your ears, in other words, get bookshelf speakers or set the towers on the floor where they belong. Those two things should help. Adding a 2nd sub elsewhere in the room may also be a big help. If you are not able to make big changes to the room, however, it's a doomed enterprise. You can make the sound better, but without improving the acoustics, it will never be great.

 

[Mark E. Long]

I don’t even think the op could tilt them towers down enough to improve this situation. With the looks of his ceiling be a peak in the middle of the soundstage man that’s a lot of area to fill like that too . My ceiling is similar but mines turned the opposite way which is tuff but more doable. Not digging the sub by what looks to be a doorway either .

 

[Trebdp83]

Hello and welcome. Built-In cabinets can spell doom for proper placement of, well, everything. Get rid of the built-in cabinets or sell the house, you pick. Congratulations on your lovely family. Hope all are healthy and happy.

 

[Verdinut]

The looks would be kind of awkward, but you would get somehow an immediate audible improvement just by installing the left and right speakers upside down. That would put all the horn tweeters at about the same horizontal level.

 

[OUTCAST]

Thanks to everyone for the comments. I decided to keep the house and the built-in cabinets. LOL. I will go to a single-center channel for sure. As I read everyone's comments about the center speakers, I realized that by running the two centers (8-ohms) in parallel, I essentially created a 4-ohm center channel speaker, not sure that's such a good idea either.

I need to consider some new front speakers and a matching center channel because turning them upside down is not an option. Suggestions? I may have the RF-82 ii's and RC-62 ii's listed soon.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks to everyone for the comments. I decided to keep the house and the built-in cabinets. LOL. I will go to a single-center channel for sure. As I read everyone's comments about the center speakers, I realized that by running the two centers (8-ohms) in parallel, I essentially created a 4-ohm center channel speaker, not sure that's such a good idea either.

I need to consider some new front speakers and a matching center channel because turning them upside down is not an option. Suggestions? I may have the RF-82 ii's and RC-62 ii's listed soon.

Actually besides pushing the impedance thing, the comb filtering is another thing you want to avoid.....

 

[Trebdp83]

If you are up for a modification, taking out the sections on either side of the center section of the cabinet would help. You could leave the floor to ceiling portion. Then, you could put the Front speakers on the floor and add a second subwoofer and place the subs on the insides of the Front speakers. Oh, and lose one of the center channel speakers. Just some suggestions since you are so attached to the house.

 

[Curtdr]

Or just read the article if like me and find that better than watching a video https://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring

Yes, if you lower the crossover you'll get "less" sub. Might try raising it, too.

Like the others said on speaker height....I suppose you can't place them on the floor out in the room some?

ps missed the double center thing altogether, thought it was just a long one Yeah I'd maybe try one below and one above the screen, but not side by side....

Thanks to everyone for the comments. I decided to keep the house and the built-in cabinets. LOL. I will go to a single-center channel for sure. As I read everyone's comments about the center speakers, I realized that by running the two centers (8-ohms) in parallel, I essentially created a 4-ohm center channel speaker, not sure that's such a good idea either.

I need to consider some new front speakers and a matching center channel because turning them upside down is not an option. Suggestions? I may have the RF-82 ii's and RC-62 ii's listed soon.

A single center channel is fine; run with what you have but just use one.

You'd only have to remove the sections of the built-ins that are directly below where your speakers are sitting now. Then just go straight down and put the tall speakers on the floor right below where they are now.... that'd do it; everything would align that way and you'd have a really cool look as well as a really cool system.

 

[OUTCAST]

Thanks again Curtdr, I would love to keep them and "reconfigure" the built-in, but honestly I spent a small fortune removing the top section of that built-in. It used to go up about 8-feet with shelves and a big section for a TV. I removed all of it and then had it refinished. The previous owners were into having a thousand knick-knacks on shelves and the wood was really red-orange color. the base of the built-in I have left is really solid and is truly built-in. the flooring under isn't refinished either. Removing any part of it is just not possible. I need to change the towers out for some speakers that are shorter. Might post a question in the Loud Speakers forum for recommendations.

 

[OUTCAST]

Actually besides pushing the impedance thing, the comb filtering is another thing you want to avoid.....

Exactly right. I only added the second one recently because it picked it up cheap on ebay and thought it looked a lot better under that 85" TV. I told my wife this morning that I was going back to one center channel and she said, "yeah, ever since you added the second center channel I can't understand the dialog." I guess because I always get the sweet spot in the room I didn't notice the issue.

 

[3db]

Before buying anything, bring the towers off the built in and space them evenly apart so the outer edge of the speakers line up with the outer edge of those drawers. Also, please pull that now single channel away from the back wall such that its baffle is over hanging the edge of the cabinet by at least an 1/2 inch, rerun YPAO (single point only..multi point is garbage no matter the RC facility used) and try that to see how it sounds.

Do you have lots of leeway on sub placement?

 

[OUTCAST]

Before buying anything, bring the towers off the built in and space them evenly apart so the outer edge of the speakers line up with the outer edge of those drawers. Also, please pull that now single channel away from the back wall such that its baffle is over hanging the edge of the cabinet by at least an 1/2 inch, rerun YPAO (single point only..multi point is garbage no matter the RC facility used) and try that to see how it sounds.

Do you have lots of leeway on sub placement?

Unfortunately not, but that's a solid pocket door behind the sub that is shut when listening to music or watching movies. Power and inputs limit me to only that position for the SVS16. I'll try your suggestions and let you know. but I think book shelf speakers would provide me the best positioning

 

[DigitalDawn]

I highly recommend Triad Speakers. Triad is a Portland-based company that hand builds speakers in just about every configuration you can imagine. They will even color match the speakers and grills to match the paint on your walls. In addition to InRoom speakers, Triad has In-Wall and angled InCeiling speakers and subwoofers that work amazingly well for spaces in which you have no floor space, or when you wish to hide the speakers from view. The company has speakers in many different price ranges, starting at $300 per speaker.

While not a household name, Triad is a favorite of custom installers and has won numerous industry awards. The company is also a prototype partner for Dolby, helping to design speaker systems for immersive audio. Most recently, Triad Gold Monitor speakers won Best of Show, at the 2019 CEDIA Expo in Denver.

www.TriadSpeakers.com

Regards,
Dawn

 

[mIgaMiGA]

Oh I've heard of Triad Speakers, thanks for the tip

 

[Teetertotter?]

Hear is a guide for BEST TV viewing distances, if interested:
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