Looking for Opinions on Setup using 4 Sealed Mach 5 FTW 21" Sub Woofers

[lovinthehd]

The only ported subs I have seen , were commercial, store bought ones and they sounded ok, but just not the sound I wanted. The issue I would run into using a ported box is I dont have the room for 4 ported refridgerator size boxs lol So I am just going to do sealed and see where this takes me.

Did you look at the SPL modelling graphs for the 4 subs I posted?

How does it look to you?


Its my first attempt at sub moddeling and, It seems like a tonne of output right from 10 HZ right up to my crossover at 80hz.

This will definitley have more output than my 2 paradigm x12's

Thought you just posted a single box sub with four drivers....how different from four boxes am not sure otoh. What do you plan to do for eq to flatten response?

 

[lovinthehd]

I have not modeled the room, but It sounds like I had better learn to figure that one out too lol

I do have REW on the laptop and was going to get a umik 1 microphone as I believe I need to use REW to setup the MINI DSP Flex HTx with it.

After that is setup, I will be using the ARC room correction on my Anthem reciever to dial the room in.

I will likely set it up the way I desrcibed first and see how it sounds before I play with it and start moving the subs around.

The room modeling is just a feature of REW, doesn't require a mic.

 

[lovinthehd]

The only ported subs I have seen , were commercial, store bought ones and they sounded ok, but just not the sound I wanted. The issue I would run into using a ported box is I dont have the room for 4 ported refridgerator size boxs lol So I am just going to do sealed and see where this takes me.

Did you look at the SPL modelling graphs for the 4 subs I posted?

How does it look to you?


Its my first attempt at sub moddeling and, It seems like a tonne of output right from 10 HZ right up to my crossover at 80hz.

This will definitley have more output than my 2 paradigm x12's

Not familiar with the Paradigm X12s in any case otoh

 

[TLS Guy]

So let me ask you a different way.

You do seem knowlegable on this stuff.

Lets say, hypothetically I havent purchased any subs.

What would your reccomendation be for subs , boxes to do 4 sealed boxes in my listening area?

I have no issue learning a few things or taking advice either. Just didnt expect to have this idea completley trashed, when its a big hit elsewhere

I have no idea yet, until I do some serious calcula

Here is my first attempt at WIN ISD. I put as much information as I had and set the imput at 600 watts, half of what the sub is capable of. I went with a 6.2 cubic foot sealed box. This is a really nice SPL graph on this sub and this is exactly how I was told the sub would perform.

94 DB at 10 HZ
104 DB at 20 HZ

I am not 100% certain I did this properly but I did my best to get it as accurate as I could

That looks very much like my very rough calculation. I anticipated a 3db point just below 50 Hz, and it is. As it should for a sealed enclosure it is rolling off at 12 db. per octave. So, I have to congratulate you on your first model. You are showing definite promise as a speaker designer.

So what we need to see is how much LF boost can be applied before the driver runs out of xmax. I have had a long day. My wife did not get into the operating room until this afternoon. As usual after surgery she is pretty miserable this evening. I hope to bring her home tomorrow, but will be very much preoccupied. I will model ported and sealed enclosures for you, but please be patient at this time. It will be a day or two before I can devote serious time to this. Ported enclosures properly designed are NOT boomy. I have not had that complaint from members I have done designs for over the years.

 

[lovinthehd]

I have no idea yet, until I do some serious calcula


That looks very much like my very rough calculation. I anticipated a 3db point just below 50 Hz, and it is. As it should for a sealed enclosure it is rolling off at 12 db. per octave. So, I have to congratulate you on your first model. You are showing definite promise as a speaker designer.

So what we need to see is how much LF boost can be applied before the driver runs out of xmax. I have had a long day. My wife did not get into the operating room until this afternoon. As usual after surgery she is pretty miserable this evening. I hope to bring her home tomorrow, but will be very much preoccupied. I will model ported and sealed enclosures for you, but please be patient at this time. It will be a day or two before I can devote serious time to this. Ported enclosures properly designed are NOT boomy. I have not had that complaint from members I have done designs for over the years.

Keep in mind that the general rules of amplification apply,, to raise spl by 3dB requires a doubling of power.....

 

[Eppie]

Welcome to the forums @Allen Vos.

@TLS Guy : I assume you got the parameters from https://www.mach5audio.com/product/ftw-21/

It says that the sub is optimized for sealed enclosures so I'm curious to see whether your calculations confirm that. I didn't know that we had a subwoofer manufacture in Winnipeg, Manitoba, of all places. I knew about Funk Audio in Alberta but it's nice to see some home grown manufacturing.

P.S. Hope the missus is doing ok.

 

[TLS Guy]

Welcome to the forums @Allen Vos.

@TLS Guy : I assume you got the parameters from https://www.mach5audio.com/product/ftw-21/

It says that the sub is optimized for sealed enclosures so I'm curious to see whether your calculations confirm that. I didn't know that we had a subwoofer manufacture in Winnipeg, Manitoba, of all places. I knew about Funk Audio in Alberta but it's nice to see some home grown manufacturing.

P.S. Hope the missus is doing ok.

Actually that was pretty obvious from the T/S parameters, as it is a high Qts driver.

 

[Allen Vos]

I have no idea yet, until I do some serious calcula


That looks very much like my very rough calculation. I anticipated a 3db point just below 50 Hz, and it is. As it should for a sealed enclosure it is rolling off at 12 db. per octave. So, I have to congratulate you on your first model. You are showing definite promise as a speaker designer.

So what we need to see is how much LF boost can be applied before the driver runs out of xmax. I have had a long day. My wife did not get into the operating room until this afternoon. As usual after surgery she is pretty miserable this evening. I hope to bring her home tomorrow, but will be very much preoccupied. I will model ported and sealed enclosures for you, but please be patient at this time. It will be a day or two before I can devote serious time to this. Ported enclosures properly designed are NOT boomy. I have not had that complaint from members I have done designs for over the years.

Ha Ha , It wasnt that hard. I had already seen the modeling in winisd for the Mach 5 audios SEN-18 Subwoofer so it was just a matter of plugging in the correct numbers and setting the SPL graphs up.

I am a 25 year licenced automotive mechanic with extensive experinence in electrial and have been trained on EV's as well, so I do understand the basics with audio stuff, but I am not at a level where you are, but I am absolutley keen to learn.

WIth regards to ported stuff, I understand the size of the box for the FTW-21 drivers would be the size of a refridgerator so I just dont have the space for it. I have heard 4 of them in a sealed application and it literally blew away my 2 paradigm x12's, and I really like the way the sealed subs sound with 4 of them , despite having to feed them a lot of power.

I was going to mention the CVR D-1004 amp I will be using will be wired directly to my hydro panel with a 220 volt 30 amp feed, so should never have to worry about loss of power lol

If youi are willing to model them for me in ported and sealed, I think it would be neat to see that, and very much appreciated.

I hope your wife is recovering nicely and by all means thats where your focus should be. I will be here whenever you are ready

 

[Allen Vos]

Thought you just posted a single box sub with four drivers....how different from four boxes am not sure otoh. What do you plan to do for eq to flatten response?

So the way WIN ISD works, is if you switch to 4 drivers, you have to take the box's size of 6.3 cubic feet for one and multipy it by the number of drivers, in my case 4, and that will give you an accurate SPL graph.

If you look at the output for the 4 subs vs the one, its roughly a 6 DB increase in output.

I will be using a MINI DSP Flex HTx to get all the subs synced, timed so they all work as one sub, then I will be using the Anthem ARC room correction to flatten out any curves that need to be.

As far as I know this is the correct way to do this?

If im wrong here, I am defintley open to suggestions.

 

[Allen Vos]

Welcome to the forums @Allen Vos.

@TLS Guy : I assume you got the parameters from https://www.mach5audio.com/product/ftw-21/

It says that the sub is optimized for sealed enclosures so I'm curious to see whether your calculations confirm that. I didn't know that we had a subwoofer manufacture in Winnipeg, Manitoba, of all places. I knew about Funk Audio in Alberta but it's nice to see some home grown manufacturing.

P.S. Hope the missus is doing ok.

I was happy to see a Canadian Manufacturer that made sub woofers. As you know with the USA starting a trade war with us and all the Tarrrifs donny dum dum threw on us, I think its important to support our own country whenever possible.

 

[Allen Vos]

Not familiar with the Paradigm X12s in any case otoh

They are nothing special, just a 12" ported sub with a down firing port. 650 watts RMS and I think they only go down to 20-25 hz, but musically they have a decent mid bass punch from 40-80hz. Two of these are just not big enough for my 3600 cubic foot rec room. I have to drive them hard to get the bass I like.

 

[TLS Guy]

Ha Ha , It wasnt that hard. I had already seen the modeling in winisd for the Mach 5 audios SEN-18 Subwoofer so it was just a matter of plugging in the correct numbers and setting the SPL graphs up.

I am a 25 year licenced automotive mechanic with extensive experinence in electrial and have been trained on EV's as well, so I do understand the basics with audio stuff, but I am not at a level where you are, but I am absolutley keen to learn.

WIth regards to ported stuff, I understand the size of the box for the FTW-21 drivers would be the size of a refridgerator so I just dont have the space for it. I have heard 4 of them in a sealed application and it literally blew away my 2 paradigm x12's, and I really like the way the sealed subs sound with 4 of them , despite having to feed them a lot of power.

I was going to mention the CVR D-1004 amp I will be using will be wired directly to my hydro panel with a 220 volt 30 amp feed, so should never have to worry about loss of power lol

If youi are willing to model them for me in ported and sealed, I think it would be neat to see that, and very much appreciated.

I hope your wife is recovering nicely and by all means thats where your focus should be. I will be here whenever you are ready

You still have a problem though as those amps are not sub amps. It would be fine if it where not a sealed design. Plate amps that mount in the subs often have a way for you to add the required Eq for sealed subs. So, if you use those amps you are going to need an equalizer ahead of each of those amps.

 

[Allen Vos]

You still have a problem though as those amps are not sub amps. It would be fine if it where not a sealed design. Plate amps that mount in the subs often have a way for you to add the required Eq for sealed subs. So, if you use those amps you are going to need an equalizer ahead of each of those amps.

SO the CVR amp I am looking at , is in fact a "D" class amp for subs. I am going to be using a Mini DSP Flex HTx to set the subs up , then use the Anthem ARC room correction to flatten any curves and I have the cross over's set to 80 HZ for the subs.

Is there anything more I would need?

 

[lovinthehd]

Ha Ha , It wasnt that hard. I had already seen the modeling in winisd for the Mach 5 audios SEN-18 Subwoofer so it was just a matter of plugging in the correct numbers and setting the SPL graphs up.

I am a 25 year licenced automotive mechanic with extensive experinence in electrial and have been trained on EV's as well, so I do understand the basics with audio stuff, but I am not at a level where you are, but I am absolutley keen to learn.

WIth regards to ported stuff, I understand the size of the box for the FTW-21 drivers would be the size of a refridgerator so I just dont have the space for it. I have heard 4 of them in a sealed application and it literally blew away my 2 paradigm x12's, and I really like the way the sealed subs sound with 4 of them , despite having to feed them a lot of power.

I was going to mention the CVR D-1004 amp I will be using will be wired directly to my hydro panel with a 220 volt 30 amp feed, so should never have to worry about loss of power lol

If youi are willing to model them for me in ported and sealed, I think it would be neat to see that, and very much appreciated.

I hope your wife is recovering nicely and by all means thats where your focus should be. I will be here whenever you are ready

Curious, how many of the CVR amps will you use? Specs look massively inflated....

 

[lovinthehd]

So the way WIN ISD works, is if you switch to 4 drivers, you have to take the box's size of 6.3 cubic feet for one and multipy it by the number of drivers, in my case 4, and that will give you an accurate SPL graph.

If you look at the output for the 4 subs vs the one, its roughly a 6 DB increase in output.

I will be using a MINI DSP Flex HTx to get all the subs synced, timed so they all work as one sub, then I will be using the Anthem ARC room correction to flatten out any curves that need to be.

As far as I know this is the correct way to do this?

If im wrong here, I am defintley open to suggestions.

I'd just work with the model as you would use, you're not using a single box. Minidsp might be a good way to go for basic setup/eq, whether Anthem will do anything particular after that, easy enough to test when you get there.