Logitech dropping support for the older Harmony remotes

panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
The older Harmony remotes were fine. I wasn't a fan, but had many friends and customers that loved them.

The hub based remotes have been nothing but excellent for me. I had one die on me, but the other three have been going strong for almost a decade.

I've got backups for all of them if they die, so I should be covered as long as Logitech keeps up their end and doesn't kill their servers so we can program them.

Time will tell.
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
The older Harmony remotes were fine. I wasn't a fan, but had many friends and customers that loved them.

The hub based remotes have been nothing but excellent for me. I had one die on me, but the other three have been going strong for almost a decade.

I've got backups for all of them if they die, so I should be covered as long as Logitech keeps up their end and doesn't kill their servers so we can program them.

Time will tell.
I still have the Pro 2400 they sent while I was a tester, in case en Elite remote fails or I find someone who wants/needs the base- it does more than the smaller hub and it has an ethernet port, so connectivity is no problem. It also has SMA antenna, so that can be located where it's needed, by using an extension cable.

I would like to see someone by the servers and rights to the software, but one of the comments the Mgr made, which I had posted, was that app-based control is very popular. I don't see switching between apps as a good way to control a system, but I assume this is for mass consumption, not custom integration.
 
D

dolynick

Full Audioholic
I bought a Harmony 890 back when they were getting popular. I gather it's not on the unsupported list just published but I gave up on it a while back already. It was alright, but after many years it started to get really touchy about actually charging on the base. No amount of cleaning of the contacts, etc seemed to help and it was perpetually dead when you actually needed it.

I set up a newer Ultimate One for my folks many years later. It was a nice device but I can't say I was a huge fan of the online programming they had at that point. I get why they went that way, but it just felt like yet another service/account I have to remember and manage. And one prone to forgetting because how often do you really need to reprogram a remote?

Then the shut down happened. I refuse to consider them any longer as I have little faith the service will remain available despite what the company claims. At some point, they'll just cut it off with financial justifications or something.

I have two URC MX-980 remotes that I setup and program myself. Dealing with the company to get access to the software was a pain, but they seem to have given in on that more nowadays. You definitely need to have more of an idea of what you're doing with these, but in the end, it's more flexible and I like that you can set things up with more freedom of detail on behavior.

I also picked up an Unfolded Circle Remote Two to try. It's a beautiful remote. Unfortunately, it works quite differently than the others and I couldn't get it to work in the way I wanted at the time (they had just started shipping). I didn't have time to fight with it and go through the learning curve at the time, plus I had a working MX-980 in that system already so it went back into the box for revisiting at a later date. I haven't gotten back to it yet.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
I still have the Pro 2400 they sent while I was a tester, in case en Elite remote fails or I find someone who wants/needs the base- it does more than the smaller hub and it has an ethernet port, so connectivity is no problem. It also has SMA antenna, so that can be located where it's needed, by using an extension cable.

I would like to see someone by the servers and rights to the software, but one of the comments the Mgr made, which I had posted, was that app-based control is very popular. I don't see switching between apps as a good way to control a system, but I assume this is for mass consumption, not custom integration.
Having to switch apps to control a system is terrible. They make some remote apps that attempt to replicate a true "universal remote" but I haven't used one that was very good.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
I want good old fashioned buttons on the remote.
Same. That's why I bought backups. I've heard nothing but good things about URC, but I haven't found a remote model that's "simple" enough. I need very few buttons on the remote to control things.

I don't like using touch screen remotes. I don't want to have to look down at the remote to figure out what I'm doing.

EDIT: I looked at the newer URC options and there are a few models that would work for me very well, but holy hell are they expensive.
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I bought a Harmony 890 back when they were getting popular. I gather it's not on the unsupported list just published but I gave up on it a while back already. It was alright, but after many years it started to get really touchy about actually charging on the base. No amount of cleaning of the contacts, etc seemed to help and it was perpetually dead when you actually needed it.

I set up a newer Ultimate One for my folks many years later. It was a nice device but I can't say I was a huge fan of the online programming they had at that point. I get why they went that way, but it just felt like yet another service/account I have to remember and manage. And one prone to forgetting because how often do you really need to reprogram a remote?

Then the shut down happened. I refuse to consider them any longer as I have little faith the service will remain available despite what the company claims. At some point, they'll just cut it off with financial justifications or something.

I have two URC MX-980 remotes that I setup and program myself. Dealing with the company to get access to the software was a pain, but they seem to have given in on that more nowadays. You definitely need to have more of an idea of what you're doing with these, but in the end, it's more flexible and I like that you can set things up with more freedom of detail on behavior.

I also picked up an Unfolded Circle Remote Two to try. It's a beautiful remote. Unfortunately, it works quite differently than the others and I couldn't get it to work in the way I wanted at the time (they had just started shipping). I didn't have time to fight with it and go through the learning curve at the time, plus I had a working MX-980 in that system already so it went back into the box for revisiting at a later date. I haven't gotten back to it yet.
The programming was online to make it easy to create a large database of commands- the thing they did that makes them unique is the maintenance- they would fix codes while someone was on the phone with a tech support question unless it was after hours and they had some ong hours, for a long time.

Where did you buy the Unfolded remote? Did they point you to training videos for programming?
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I want good old fashioned buttons on the remote.
And definitely no swipe function on the touchscreen. It's easy to remember where the buttons are located- I don't know why remote manufacturers try to force some 'features' on everyone.
 
Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic Samurai
Wonder how long they will support the harmony-ultimate one . I can’t find my programming cable for my other remote. One without a digital screen on it. My avr remote volume broke so I use this one. Real shame they quit making new ones.
IMG_6476.jpeg
 
D

dolynick

Full Audioholic
The programming was online to make it easy to create a large database of commands- the thing they did that makes them unique is the maintenance- they would fix codes while someone was on the phone with a tech support question unless it was after hours and they had some ong hours, for a long time.

Where did you buy the Unfolded remote? Did they point you to training videos for programming?
I understood why they set it up that way. They were obviously evolving the platform over time as the software for my 890 was a stand alone app when I got it.

The Unfolded Circle Remote Two can be found here:

I pre-ordered it during the kickstarter phase. It's out of stock now. I'm not sure if it will come back into stock or not as it looks like they're preparing a new remote for release.

They do have support stuff set up for their Unfolded OS. It was all just very new when I got mine and it felt like I was going to have to do a lot of digging to figure it out at the time. The room it was going to be used in needs some slightly non-standard behaviors set up and it was too much of a chore at the time when I already had a working URC configured and had other more pressing concerns to deal with. Some day I should dig it out and revisit it. The Remote Two was generally well received when it came out but I expect the software platform took a while to catch up. It's probably fine now.
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I understood why they set it up that way. They were obviously evolving the platform over time as the software for my 890 was a stand alone app when I got it.

The Unfolded Circle Remote Two can be found here:

I pre-ordered it during the kickstarter phase. It's out of stock now. I'm not sure if it will come back into stock or not as it looks like they're preparing a new remote for release.

They do have support stuff set up for their Unfolded OS. It was all just very new when I got mine and it felt like I was going to have to do a lot of digging to figure it out at the time. The room it was going to be used in needs some slightly non-standard behaviors set up and it was too much of a chore at the time when I already had a working URC configured and had other more pressing concerns to deal with. Some day I should dig it out and revisit it. The Remote Two was generally well received when it came out but I expect the software platform took a while to catch up. It's probably fine now.
Looks like they spent a lot of money for a small number of really great-looking remotes. I bet they were hoping someone would come along and buy the company- I signed up for notifications, but may contact them if I get nothing in a few days. It looks familiar, but I may have decided "I don't want to be on teh bleeding edge again" and let it go.

I'm always leery of remotes that have significant weight and are made of metal and glass- dropping can't be good for it and at 165 gms (5.8 oz), it's not light.
 
D

dolynick

Full Audioholic
Looks like they spent a lot of money for a small number of really great-looking remotes. I bet they were hoping someone would come along and buy the company- I signed up for notifications, but may contact them if I get nothing in a few days. It looks familiar, but I may have decided "I don't want to be on teh bleeding edge again" and let it go.

I'm always leery of remotes that have significant weight and are made of metal and glass- dropping can't be good for it and at 165 gms (5.8 oz), it's not light.
As I alluded to in my first mention of it, the fit and finish of the Remote Two is miles ahead of anything else I've seen. I suppose your concern is valid about the weight, but it's not something that I even considered when evaluating the device.

The device itself works differently from other remotes I've used. Harmony and URC devices do IR from the remote itself. The Remote Two is a wifi device and the IR hub is what sends the signals. The remote just connects to the hub or by IP directly for certain devices if supported. As such, it's the only remote I've seen that can actually control an Apple TV box successfully (the only issue was it doesn't have a trackpad so it's not as easy as with the proper Apple remote).

On the software side I suspect most things are fine, particularly if you're looking for something Harmony level in control options. It names things and organizes things a little differently, which is part of where I got hung up. If I were to sit down again and properly apply myself to figuring it out, I'm sure it would be alright. One thing that does apparently seem to still be an issue is devices with power toggles rather than discreet on/off commands. They don't have a provision for that yet. This is where I really appreciate the extra complexity of the URC remotes, as you have a very basic variable and logic system to do handle customized scenarios like that.
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
As I alluded to in my first mention of it, the fit and finish of the Remote Two is miles ahead of anything else I've seen. I suppose your concern is valid about the weight, but it's not something that I even considered when evaluating the device.

The device itself works differently from other remotes I've used. Harmony and URC devices do IR from the remote itself. The Remote Two is a wifi device and the IR hub is what sends the signals. The remote just connects to the hub or by IP directly for certain devices if supported. As such, it's the only remote I've seen that can actually control an Apple TV box successfully (the only issue was it doesn't have a trackpad so it's not as easy as with the proper Apple remote).

On the software side I suspect most things are fine, particularly if you're looking for something Harmony level in control options. It names things and organizes things a little differently, which is part of where I got hung up. If I were to sit down again and properly apply myself to figuring it out, I'm sure it would be alright. One thing that does apparently seem to still be an issue is devices with power toggles rather than discreet on/off commands. They don't have a provision for that yet. This is where I really appreciate the extra complexity of the URC remotes, as you have a very basic variable and logic system to do handle customized scenarios like that.
WRT fit & finish, Control4 has one that looks similar, but mere mortals can't buy their products because we aren't authorized sellers and they don't give out the software, nor do URC or RTi. Either way, it looks great!

With more equipment moving toward IP control, and I saw that the Unfolded can do RS-232, the communication with devices is generally much better, plus two-way communication is possible, so the state of the device can be seen on the remote, which is great. However, I would never try to operate only on WiFi if wired is an option.

The Apple track pad- was that for volume?

HArmony and URC do IR from the remote unless a hub is included and then, Harmony could do IR, IP or BT (which was great for AppleTV and some others), the URC were doing IP and IP, not sure if they do BT because I haven't kept up on their training. The Harmony Companion needs a hub because it doesn't do IR, by itself. It doesn't have a Help button, either- if I need to correct something, I use the app but that's rare.

Toggling commands have been a pebble in the shoe of installers/programmers for at least 25 years- manufcturers have generally gone to discretes (especially for power and inputs), but one of the main reasons they still exist is providers like Time-Warner/Spectrum, Comcast, ATT, etc- if you remember the gold-ish silver Scientific Atlanta cable box called Explorer 8300, they were shipped to the cable providers with discrete power commands and a jack on the back for IR control, but the providers disabled them. The cable boxes used to have a workaround for power On, but even that went away. Now, the Spectrum 101 and 201 boxes use IR or RF from their remote, but they don't give a rat's butt about aftermarket, so we still suffer.

The workaround I used for anything with a toggling command was to add a button on the screen in a convenient place/page.

Mind if I ask how much the Unfolded cost? I seem to remember $299, but I'm not sure if it was that one- I checked out several new ones around the time when Logitech stuck the fork in Harmony. I would like to see someone come out with a successful alternative to Crestron, C4 and a few others that are only sold through larger integration companies- the opening/ongoing order amounts are too much for a small company to bear.
 
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