Klipsch r-625fa/Denon X4700H

[Genchic]

My current set up is Klipsch R-625FA and 2 Klipsch R-12SW, from Costco, and Denon X4700H
No matter how I set up the speakers, with Audissey, manually, cannot get these speakers to sound good. Not enough high frequencies, the mid range sounds boxy, or like in a barrel. I used to have a pair of Onkyo speakers. They were 3 way with 12" woofer, I loved the sound. Unfortunately, I lost them in a storage fire.
I listened Focal Aria 926, really liked them. Hopefully when I get them home they will sound as good as they did in a store. I'm thinking after getting the Focal, to return the klipsch speakers, keep the Subwoofers.
I just wander if anybody else experienced trouble setting up the Klipsch R-625FA speakers.
G.

 

[lovinthehd]

Perhaps you simply don't like the Klipsch speakers, Klipsch doesn't do it for everyone (I wouldn't consider them particularly myself....fwiw the RP series seem to have better performance from several reports, tho). Didn't know Costco sold these speakers/subs. Focal speakers could well be an improvement, but your room will have a great influence on the sound (as well as speaker/sub placement in the room) so could be different experience than in a store.

Onkyo isn't particularly known for speakers, do you know which particular model they were?

FWIW you can do much better than those Klipsch subs, too....I would consider returning them.

 

[CajunLB]

Did you remove the binding post metal straps to try some kind of bi/amp bi/wre experiment? Your tweeters seem to be off if your are finding those particular Klipsch are dull .

 

[Genchic]

Thanks "Lovinthehd" for your reply. This is what I thought to begin with, it is just hard to imagine that so highly praised speakers by reviewers, don't perform well.
My Onkyo was my birthday present in 1997. We bought it at Circuit City as a rack system with 2 Cassette Dec, tuner, amp and 6 cd changer. The whole thing cost around $1000.00. Somebody else probably manufactured those speakers for them, but they were really good sounding floor standing speakers. I came to this forum to get your take on the problem I experienced with the klipsch, to make sure I'm not missing anything. I think tried everything to get them to sound good, they just don't, at list not to my and my wife's taste.

There are only 2 terminals on the back of those Klipschs, a pair for the tower and the pair for the Atmos.
I hate to say it, but may be "Made in China" has so.ething to do with it.

My Focals are coming in a few days, I will do the comparison run befor saying good by to Klipschs. Will let you know how it goes.

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[lovinthehd]

What reviewers? Quality of the recommendations of many subjective reviewers these days...meh. I searched for reviews on this speaker and didn't find any worth looking at particularly, but didn't see much either.

Personally I'd stay away from the bouncy Atmos speakers myself and just concentrate on better mains. Speakers are somewhat personal taste, so might be a good thing if you can get out and listen to some more, there's a lot of choices out there. I was just at Costco and sure enough they had the Klipsch sub you got, pretty sure it wasn't there the last time. Didn't see the speakers but didn't really look.

Interesting they left off the silly bi-wiring/bi-amping terminals most of their speakers have. As to being made in China, you get what you pay for (you can get a full range of possibilities there, they can build with the worst or best of them)....and the design by Klipsch and their choice of components is key rather than who builds it particularly in any case.

 

[Genchic]

Costco speakers are available on line for $899.00 a set of 5: left, right, center and 2 surround. Regular price for those speakers about $700 - $850 each floor speakers, without center and surround. I thought I was getting a good deal... You got that right, you get what you pay for.
There a a few reviews on YouTube I found for that particular Costco set, and everybody says that this is a steal.
I listened many different speakers: Martin Logan, B&W, Definitive Technology, Klipsch RP-8000, even Klipsch Heritage Heresy IV, before choosing the Focal Aria. They have the most natural sound out of all I listened in their price range. They are a little week in bass, this is why I'm keeping the subwoofers.
My approach to home stereo is very simple, it has to be pleasant to my ears, has to give me clear high frequency sound, mid and low. Everything else can be tweaked with proper placing, towing tilting etc. Unfortunately, the Klipsch happened to be not my "cup of tea"

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[lovinthehd]

Yes, compared to list the Costco set price is great (as long as you like the speakers ). Klipsch can usually be found with a fairly deep discount eventually, tho. There are few speakers that are truly full range, so subs are something I'd use with most speakers; subs get you better flexibility for placement and dealing with the effects a typical room in a home has at lower bass frequencies (try this article https://www.soundandvision.com/content/schroeder-frequency-show-and-tell-part-1). Then again I'm a bassoholic and just want better subs than the Klipsch (my only Klipsch sub, an older FW12d, died recently, but for the $300 I paid it was okay at the time, think its retail was 600, maybe 700, at the time); for the $250 I saw at Costco today for the Klipsch R12-SWs may be okay, but I'd still prefer a lower price for what they are or just get better subs to begin with. Good luck with your Focals!

 

[Genchic]

I live in a condo, cannot go too crazy on bass, 2 klipsch subs do the job. My issue is not enough hights. I blamed Klipsch speakers at 1st. After comparing them to Focals, I got them yesterday, they don't sound too bad. Focal are better speakers, but still not enough high frequencies. I started blaming my hearing for that, however, I don't have problems hearing high frequency sound in my car stereo. For example: "Remember the Times" by M. Jackson, in my car's Mark Levinson sounds way better than my home sound system. May be I am missing something in setting in Denon X4700H. I want to contact Denon tech support on Monday. See what they say. My old Denon, that I lost in a storage fire didn't have that issue.
I would appreciate any suggestions here as well.


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[lovinthehd]

Does your car stereo have some equalization boosting the highs? Does the car system have a lack of lows to contrast such with? What Audyssey settings are you using? Hard to know what your preferences are, but many find Klipsch speakers a bit bright....

 

[Genchic]

My car stereo does have an equalizer. I always boost hights. No lows deficiency. All the sound range, from lows, like a punch to a stomach all the way to high frequencies. If in a song uses a braking glass, it sounds like it is being broken inside of my car. At home it seems there is no depth in the sound. It seems like the hights are not loud enough.
At home I use manual settings as well. I boosted the hights all the way, but it is missing the high frequency volume, I would say. I tried to use Audessy with Klipsch, I didn't like it. It sounds even duller.

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[lovinthehd]

Comparing a car environment to a typical in-home room environment experience can be quite different. I think you probably like the high end a whole hell of a lot more than I do in any case! You at least using Audyssey Flat settings so as to not roll off the highs?

ps I don't have problems with cymbals or other high frequency sounds particularly.....

 

[Genchic]

When I'm back home this afternoon, I'll try to run the Audessy setup with the new speakers, see if it helps. Will let you know.


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[Genchic]

I'm back with results. It is a big learning curve for me. My last AVR before this one didn't have all the complications like the X4700H has. My previous system didn't have subwoofers either. 12" built-in drivers did the job. I ran the Audyssey several times. I got into a problem of cross phasing my speakers, according to Audyssey. After talking to Focal, the Illinois based ABT store sells person, and research on the internet, it happened to be normal for three-way floor standing speakers. Finally, I got the sound to where I have good high frequency response, and good lows. However, I still have a lot of learning to do about my new receiver and Audyssey to perfect the sound.

Thank you Lovinthehd and CajunLB for your help.
I wish you all the best.
Be safe.
G.L.

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[lovinthehd]

Yeah there's definitely a lot of possibilities with a modern avr for setup. I know rtfm is boring but can be really helpful, too.

The phase error with a room correction program sometimes will point out a polarity/phase error, sometimes it's just acoustics/specific speakers that trick it and the warning can be safely ignored. There's a way you can test phase easily with many setup discs (and quite a few dvd/blurays have a thx setup section that can provide that, too). That phase thing was the source of lack of highs/clarity I take it? I remember the last time I got one of those phase errors was on a rear surround, and was almost ready to ignore it but had just rerouted speaker cables for it and even tho I thought I had been careful, when I checked I had connected the speaker incorrectly. Only time it turned out to be correct, altho I didn't get the error from Audyssey much, got it all the time with my Pioneer's MCACC room eq/setup routine.

Some of the audyssey setup threads out there can be helpful in running it/understanding its nuances....are you using the Audyssey Editor App or just the avr?

 

[Genchic]

As of now I'm using avr, but planning on buying the Audyssey Managment app. If I knew it gets so complicated, I'd probably just bought a peamp and an amp to KISS the system, LOL! I miss all good days when we had low, mid and high pots on the front of an amp, and everything was adjusted by ear. All musical instruments were tuned by ear, with an "A" sound as a reference point. Even today I refuse to use electronic tuners to tune my guitars, I use a fork "A" tuner.

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[lovinthehd]

As of now I'm using avr, but planning on buying the Audyssey Managment app. If I knew it gets so complicated, I'd probably just bought a peamp and an amp to KISS the system, LOL! I miss all good days when we had low, mid and high pots on the front of an amp, and everything was adjusted by ear. All musical instruments were tuned by ear, with an "A" sound as a reference point. Even today I refuse to use electronic tuners to tune my guitars, I use a fork "A" tuner.

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Well you could skip Audyssey (but I'd try the app for sure) and just use the graphic eq in the avr, but with a remote and a tv.....but you can't use the graphic eq and Audyssey simultaneously.

 

[Andon]

As far as I see you are using X4700, I think the reviser have a EQ that you can ajust just lake in you car. My X3100 have it. If I remember correctly the Audyssey should be off in order for you to access and adjust the eq

 

[Pandaman617]

To add my two cents in regards to Klipsch subs, one of my weekend shooting buddies got a pair of Klipsch SPL-120’s and he knows I’m an A/V nerd so he was super excited to show them off to me. He paid a little over $1700 for the pair shipped. They sounded absolutely horrible to me with a ton of cabinet rattle jank. We used REW to place them optimally in his room and regardless of the numerous placement options the response wasn’t worth $1000 let alone $1700. Just for fun I brought my pair of SVS SB1000 Pro’s over and measured them in the exact same spots using the same methods and hardware and the the SVS’s blew the Klipsch’s out of the water. I have plenty of friends who like their speakers and subs and I can understand the draw to the horn tweeter, however their products, even their higher end ones, have never delivered the quality I would expect at that price point.

 

[Genchic]

For some reason the manual EQ doesn't boost enough bass. I get wider frequency response with Audyssey on. I still need to study all the settings in this avr. Unfortunately, it takes a lot of time and I only have 2 days a week that I can realy spend playing with my system. I appreciate all of your input. I will keep you up to date with my findings and progress, if you're interested. As far as my subs go, Because I'm using two of them, they are doing a dissent job. They are not being overwhelmed, and give me just enough clean additional base to compensate the Focals. Focals have good bass on their own as well.
I'm done with Klipsch floor speakers. We listened a few different models at ABT Electronics in Illinois, (one of the best stores for electronics in my experience) including RF-7 and Heresy. Focal Aria sounded much better.

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[lovinthehd]

For some reason the manual EQ doesn't boost enough bass. I get wider frequency response with Audyssey on. I still need to study all the settings in this avr. Unfortunately, it takes a lot of time and I only have 2 days a week that I can realy spend playing with my system. I appreciate all of your input. I will keep you up to date with my findings and progress, if you're interested. As far as my subs go, Because I'm using two of them, they are doing a dissent job. They are not being overwhelmed, and give me just enough clean additional base to compensate the Focals. Focals have good bass on their own as well.
I'm done with Klipsch floor speakers. We listened a few different models at ABT Electronics in Illinois, (one of the best stores for electronics in my experience) including RF-7 and Heresy. Focal Aria sounded much better.

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What are you doing with Audyssey's DynamicEQ and Dynamic Volume?