monkish54

monkish54

Audioholic General
Thanks for the link. To add to you very last sentence from it, you also can't achieve that without listening.
How do you figure that?


I did do it without listening. :p


Fortunately you know Dennis would have taken back the speakers had you hated them. Considering who made them, though, that same "risk" is something a lot of people would have been willing to make. Let's be honest here, Dennis knows his stuff. :)
I'm sure he would have. To be honest, that thought never crossed my mind. I never wondered if I could return them. The only thing I was wondering was "Phils or LSR6332...hmmm". I couldn't decide if I wanted to take a chance with Phils for Salon 2 sound...or just go with the LSR. I made the right choice. :D Although, I will own the LSR one day! :D

I had never heard (or seen a full suite of measurements for) any of Dennis' speakers. It was as much of a risk as buying any other speaker "blind".

Funny. From my perspective, it's the listeners that are buying blind. ;)

Measurements won't tell you whether you'll connect with the music while listening to a speaker; not one bit. Just sayin'
All I need to connect with my music is a neutral speaker and some good music. The former is objective and can be proven via measurement, the latter is completely subjective.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Of course its okay - it's their decision. Did I tell them is was a smart idea? No, because it probably isn't. But that is for them to decide. You obviously have issues with me that you still need to resolve. Until then perhaps you shouldn't engage in conversation with me. Work out your issues dude - I did nothing to provoke you.
Another example. Morik thought about buying SS8.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1425237/speaker-recommendations/90#post_22436083

To which I said:
Have you auditioned the SS8?
$8 - $10K plus shipping for speakers is a lot of money. Better be 100% sure no matter what speakers you buy.
Just because it's Salk doesn't guarantee you will like them - same with Revel, KEF, B&W or any brand.
To which you replied:
Way to rain on the parade...
With that said, I am sure he's aware of this.
So it's okay if they blindly spend $10K because it's their decision?

And here I thought we're here to help other members make well informed wise decisions? No?
 
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N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
All I need to connect with my music is a neutral speaker and some good music. The former is objective and can be proven via measurement, the latter is completely subjective.
But the latter is what it's all about. :) Even Sean Olive and Floyd Toole performed numerous listening tests in order to confirm the objective side of things. Measurements won't tell you whatever everyone's preferences are, or what the speakers will sound like in their room.
 
N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
Another example. Morik thought about buying SS8.

Speaker recommendations?

To which I said:


To which you replied:
Telling you not to rain on his parade is not the same as telling him it is a smart idea to buy speakers unheard. I'd also like to add that he already decided to buy the speakers, hence my comment to you. You were literally trying to change his mind. You really have issues don't you? Are you done now?
 
monkish54

monkish54

Audioholic General
But the latter is what it's all about. :)
Yes it is. :)

Even Sean Olive and Floyd Toole performed numerous listening tests in order to confirm the objective side of things.
Yes they did, and I thank them for it. Now I don't have to. Because of Toole and Olive, I know what measurement correlates with what audible experience of a loudspeaker. For instance...Toole's big one..Off-axis. Thanks to him I now know what allows my speaker to throw an image and have an immersive soundstage. Measurements are only good if they tell me something. Thanks to Olive and Toole, the measurements now tell me something.

Measurements won't tell you whatever everyone's preferences are, or what the speakers will sound like in their room.
I don't need to know what someone's preference is. This "philosophy" works for me and those who share the same goal--complete neutrality. True High fidelity. :D

Before I recommend a loudspeaker, I always ask the OP if he is looking for complete neutrality, or a speaker that has a sound he will like. :D If he says the latter, I always recommend he listen. How else would you find what sound..sounds good to you? :D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Telling you not to rain on his parade is not the same as telling him it is a smart idea to buy speakers unheard. I'd also like to add that he already decided to buy the speakers, hence my comment to you. You were literally trying to change his mind. You really have issues don't you? Are you done now?
I was recommending that he should slow down, audition first before spending ~ $10K.

Well, I was talking about KEF and kidding around with Jared about the KEF Blade and measurements. It's our money. Don't rain on our parade if we like to spend $30K on speakers based on measurements (BTW Jared has auditioned the Blade a few times).

Just like people buying $10K-$20K Salk based on fanboy talk. It's their money.

And then you posted. Next thing I know I was doing this..... :eek:

Before that I was having Mexican for lunch with my friends; food was brought in by our drug rep. Delicious. :)
 
monkish54

monkish54

Audioholic General
Before that I was having Mexican for lunch with my friends; food was brought in by our drug rep. Delicious. :)
My mother caters to drug reps. Big money in that. You guys must sample the product and get hungry, huh? ;)
 
N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
Yes they did, and I thank them for it. Now I don't have to. Because of Toole and Olive, I know what measurement correlates with what audible experience of a loudspeaker. For instance...Toole's big one..Off-axis. Thanks to him I now know what allows my speaker to throw an image and have an immersive soundstage. Measurements are only good if they tell me something. Thanks to Olive and Toole, the measurements now tell me something.
Indeed. Those two are the rock starts of this industry...at least lately. :)

I don't need to know what someone's preference is. This "philosophy" works for me and those who share the same goal--complete neutrality. True High fidelity. :D
So you're saying you'll know exactly how a speaker will sound in your room by looking at the measurements alone?

Before I recommend a loudspeaker, I always ask the OP if he is looking for complete neutrality, or a speaker that has a sound he will like. :D If he says the latter, I always recommend he listen. How else would you find what sound..sounds good to you? :D
By listening. :)

My mother caters to drug reps. Big money in that. You guys must sample the product and get hungry, huh? ;)
That would explain...well, a lot. :D Aww man, why did you have to set me up for that one? :D How could I resist that? You did that on purpose, didn't you? LOL! :D:p
 
monkish54

monkish54

Audioholic General
You're a collector, so you're, apparently, looking for some diversity. Most of us make singular decisions.
I too am a collector. My second pair of speakers will arrive to me sometime in 2013 when they get finished. Ironically (and foolishly..), I am not looking for diversity. I enjoy loudspeaker engineering very much. Almost more so then I do listening to speakers! Due to this fact, I want to own every well engineered speaker I can find. In practical terms this pretty much means I want many different versions of the same speaker. :)
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Yes it is. :)



Yes they did, and I thank them for it. Now I don't have to. Because of Toole and Olive, I know what measurement correlates with what audible experience of a loudspeaker. For instance...Toole's big one..Off-axis. Thanks to him I now know what allows my speaker to throw an image and have an immersive soundstage. Measurements are only good if they tell me something. Thanks to Olive and Toole, the measurements now tell me something.



I don't need to know what someone's preference is. This "philosophy" works for me and those who share the same goal--complete neutrality. True High fidelity. :D

Before I recommend a loudspeaker, I always ask the OP if he is looking for complete neutrality, or a speaker that has a sound he will like. :D If he says the latter, I always recommend he listen. How else would you find what sound..sounds good to you? :D
Sounds purdy good to me.

See, you need to say you want to buy the SS12 blindly. See if he tries to make the same comment like he did about buying KEF or other speakers based on measurements and reviews. ;)
 
N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
How do you figure that?


I did do it without listening. :p
No, you didn't. You took a guess and guessed right. You didn't "know" for sure until you listened.

Sounds purdy good to me.

See, you need to say you want to buy the SS12 blindly. See if he tries to make the same comment like he did about buying KEF or other speakers based on measurements and reviews. ;)
Here, I'll say it right now: listen first! Boom - owned. You done? I can prove you wrong all day. :cool:

By the way, right now I'm not taking you seriously at all. By that I mean I'm not upset at you, nor do I dislike you. Your behavior towards me is quite shocking, though, and I don't quite understand your hatred for me, but I assure you it isn't two-sided. I'm simply engaging in a silly game...something I probably shouldn't bother doing. But hey, you're flat out lying about me, and I will not let that slide.
 
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monkish54

monkish54

Audioholic General
So you're saying you'll know exactly how a speaker will sound in your room by looking at the measurements alone?
No. I am saying I don't need to know what it will sound like in my room. I only need to know if the speaker is neutral. If my room presents a problem and screws up my neutrality, I will take further action to restore it. :)

If you guys REALLY cared about how it sounds in your room...you'd get speakers with active crossovers. (Obviously not everyone can afford them..i am only talking about those who can.)

By listening. :)
Wont hear any argument from me. That was my point. :p

How could I resist that?
That was pretty funny, I will give you that! Nothing wrong with a little toking on the job. :p
 
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lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
I too am a collector. My second pair of speakers will arrive to me sometime in 2013 when they get finished.
I'm not sure I can finish them by then. :D Laziness sets in and takes control. I really need to get the rear baffles on tonight. It would be nice to actually finish my speakers.

Who's doing them?
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I too am a collector. My second pair of speakers will arrive to me sometime in 2013 when they get finished. Ironically (and foolishly..), I am not looking for diversity. I enjoy loudspeaker engineering very much. Almost more so then I do listening to speakers! Due to this fact, I want to own every well engineered speaker I can find. In practical terms this pretty much means I want many different versions of the same speaker. :)
I didn't realize "ADTG syndrome" was contagious. I'll have to watch out for this.
 
N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
No. I am saying I don't need to know what it will sound like in my room. I only need to know if the speaker is neutral. If my room presents a problem and screws up my neutrality, I will take further action to restore it. :)



Wont hear any argument from me. That was my point. :p



That was pretty funny, I will give you that! Nothing wrong with a little toking on the job. :p
There we go - now we're getting somewhere.

So you don't need to know how a speaker will sound in your room? Why listen to them there then? Lol - come on man, you set me up again! :D
 
monkish54

monkish54

Audioholic General
I'm not sure I can finish them by then. :D Laziness sets in and takes control. I really need to get the rear baffles on tonight. It would be nice to actually finish my speakers.
This confused the sh*t out of me. What? LOL

Who's doing them?
A friend helped choose the drivers (long ago before I knew what I was doing), and Dennis Murphy is designing the passive crossover for me. :D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I didn't realize "ADTG syndrome" was contagious. I'll have to watch out for this.
You almost bought Phil3 without audition. Maybe. :D

PENG seriously thought about adding Phil3 to his collection without audition. :D

Addicted to audio. Speakers & amps. :D
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
This confused the sh*t out of me. What? LOL



A friend helped choose the drivers (long ago before I knew what I was doing), and Dennis Murphy is designing the passive crossover for me. :D
The ploy worked. I'm currently building bipolar 3-way speakers for my 3 fronts using active crossovers, chipamps and CLD damping. Of course I've been on the project for like 3 years.
 
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