C

cschang

Audioholic Chief
Why don't you post your speakers and all your audio gear?

What speakers do you have?

What speakers do you like?

What speakers have you heard?

What plots do you have?
Yup...when you can't answer a question, ask one...or four. :rolleyes:
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Nice huh... NO they totally are lacking, but got a great Sale price on them. The Classias are really Laid BACK, not frontal at all w/o really any dynamic presence -- use all the words you want, they don't ROCK !!
... you HAVE heard a KEF speaker before....
...
..........right?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Nice huh... NO they totally are lacking, but got a great Sale price on them. The Classias are really Laid BACK, not frontal at all w/o really any dynamic presence -- use all the words you want, they don't ROCK !!

Heck, my Klipsch's knock them way out of the park. Just shows you #'s still can fool you.

Tell ADTG that one -- :D:)
Even all the great studies from Floyd Toole & Sean Olive show that not everyone prefers accurate speakers with great off-axis polar responses; and some folks prefer "inaccurate" speakers with "bad" off-axis polar responses.:D

No biggie; we're all different.:D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
You stay out of this one, you spelled it wrong -- it is Descending. :D

Sorry, you meant to say DESCEND'g.... WHO, never heard of them?

Glad you did not put down my nice Canadian PARADIGM S8's.
I have never auditioned the S6 or S8, but I have auditioned the Studio 100, which I was not impressed with. Of course, that is just me. You may love the sound of the Studio 100.

We're all different.:D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I think when I get the Philharmonic 3, DenPureSound will fly to my house (which is Krypton:D). Then he can audition KEF, Revel, Linkwitz, Philharmonic, plus B&W 800D, Studio 100, PSB Imagine T, and RBH T2/P.

I don't know if there are any Ascend speakers here (members houses). :D
 
C

cschang

Audioholic Chief
I don't know if there are any Ascend speakers here (members houses). :D
I really don't care about that. I am interested in how he equates all the data he believes he's gathering to the actual sound of the speakers.

He demands measurements, but isn't able to correlate anything.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I really don't care about that. I am interested in how he equates all the data he believes he's gathering to the actual sound of the speakers.

He demands measurements, but isn't able to correlate anything.
Well, DenPureSound is searching for his "dream speakers". He is only the first phase, which is searching for the speakers with the best overall measurements.

His next planned step is auditioning the speakers.

He may or may not like the speakers after auditioning them.

But right now, he is just looking for the speakers with the "best" overall measurements in the $3-$4K range.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Nice huh... NO they totally are lacking, but got a great Sale price on them. The Classias are really Laid BACK, not frontal at all w/o really any dynamic presence -- use all the words you want, they don't ROCK !!
You must have a really dead room and/or a wimpy amp. The classias are anything but dead.

Today I was messing around with futons at my first reflection points. My speakers went really dead, really quickly. Futons don't represent a true 4+" absorption panel but they worked for the goal.

I know ADTG doesn't think rooms do anything but I'd say they do a ton. Wide dispersion speakers in particular are really sensitive to room acoustics.

Even if they have smooth power response, it won't cover for uneven room absorption, as I noted today. Basically in this scenario they came to life when I switched from stereo to PLxII Music mode.

I think the only speakers that would be truly immune to room acoustics would be the kind I'm making :D ;)

Though even then due to cost reasons I won't be able to do exactly what I want.
 
DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
Yup...when you can't answer a question, ask one...or four. :rolleyes:
You have NO Answers just like I said before, you only ask Questions, your speakers must be so darn bad (Descends) you don't want anyone to know about any of your equipment.

You must be embarrassed by any questions someone asks of you. Stand up boy and say something meaningful.

Sounds to me like you just collect info. -- yield nothing to others - then run to the hills, with your little billyboopeep. :D
 
DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
You must have a really dead room and/or a wimpy amp. The classias are anything but dead.

Today I was messing around with futons at my first reflection points. My speakers went really dead, really quickly. Futons don't represent a true 4+" absorption panel but they worked for the goal.

I know ADTG doesn't think rooms do anything but I'd say they do a ton. Wide dispersion speakers in particular are really sensitive to room acoustics.

Even if they have smooth power response, it won't cover for uneven room absorption, as I noted today. Basically in this scenario they came to life when I switched from stereo to PLxII Music mode.

I think the only speakers that would be truly immune to room acoustics would be the kind I'm making :D ;)

Though even then due to cost reasons I won't be able to do exactly what I want.
Have you heard the Classias? I think this is the case of you looking at the specs/plots on them, and thinking they sound great. To me, they are just an average speaker at best, and I should of bought the Primus 363's, but ADTG pushed me this direction, LOL.

Believe me, they are very Neutral w/ little dynamic punch, light body/weight, slow speed, small in image and far from open - driving them off the Denon AVR-3311CI ... yes, with no external amp. since they are in such a small room. They are maybe 8" in Width, and have small drivers, 1", 4", 6 1/2". They sale for $900 Each, but glad I only paid <$200 Ea. as that is all they are worth -- period. This must be why Harman dropped the lineup of Classias. And, I know it is not the Denon 3311, as I had that previously driving the Klipsch's with no external amp.

Just for reference, my Klipsch's have dual 8" drivers.

Of course, the speakers your making will be immune to room acoustics, and you also will hit the Lottery Today and you will get No Snow this Winter there, keep praying. ;):cool:

Read this one Grant -- the Dr. will help. :D

http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompany/Technologyleadership/Documents/White%20Papers/LoudspeakersandRoomsPt2.pdf
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I really don't care about that. I am interested in how he equates all the data he believes he's gathering to the actual sound of the speakers.

He demands measurements, but isn't able to correlate anything.
Right now he is not correlating measurements to sound yet.

He is in the Phase 1 - just searching for the speakers with the best anechoic measurements of the on-axis frequency response, smoothest off-axis polar response, least THD+N, least cabinet resonance, etc.

After he finds these speakers, he will then move on to phase 2, which is the actual audition. He will not spend $4,000 on speakers just based on measurements, even if the measurements are the "best".

As GranteedEV pointed out, DenPureSound's Infinity Classia speakers have very good on-axis and off-axis FR, yet DenPureSound is not very satisfied with his Classia.

Thus, measurements alone do not guarantee that he will love the sound.

So right now he is just in Phase 1. No correlation to sound yet.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Have you heard the Classias? I think this is the case of you looking at the specs/plots on them, and thinking they sound great. To me, they are just an average speaker at best, and I should of bought the Primus 363's, but ADTG pushed me this direction, LOL.
I think it may be possible that you do not like the sound of the Harman International speakers.:D

You may or may not like the sound of KEF R900.

The same goes with all speakers out there.

Remember GranteedEV doesn't like the sound of Paradigm speakers, although their measurements seem to be very accurate.

So measurements are clearly not everything. :D

And that is why Dennis Murphy listens to each pair in addition to the speaker measurements.
 
C

cschang

Audioholic Chief
Right now he is not correlating measurements to sound yet.

He is in the Phase 1 - just searching for the speakers with the best anechoic measurements of the on-axis frequency response, smoothest off-axis polar response, least THD+N, least cabinet resonance, etc.

After he finds these speakers, he will then move on to phase 2, which is the actual audition. He will not spend $4,000 on speakers just based on measurements, even if the measurements are the "best".

As GranteedEV pointed out, DenPureSound's Infinity Classia speakers have very good on-axis and off-axis FR, yet DenPureSound is not very satisfied with his Classia.

Thus, measurements alone do not guarantee that he will love the sound.

So right now he is just in Phase 1. No correlation to sound yet.
Understood. My question is, does he even know what he likes? Is he going about this the correct way? "Phase 1" should also include at least some listening. Like I asked before, why did he purchase his current set of speakers?
 
DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
KEF R Series - On the Boat from China to U.S.A.

KEF R Series -- Big company, Bigger Engineering Dept. !!

Featuring many of KEF’s latest innovations in premium hi-fi and home theatre loudspeaker technology, the all-new R Series makes genuine audiophile standards of entertainment more affordable than ever before. Stunningly fluent new Uni-Q driver arrays combine with potent new bass drivers and many ingenious refinements to create a rich, spacious sound image of such accuracy that it approaches the benchmark standards of KEF’s legendary Reference Series.

The new Uni-Q MF/HF driver array is a masterpiece. Midrange response is amazingly fast and clean, thanks to a braced magnesium/aluminium alloy cone, with KEF’s Z-flex surround smoothing the transition to the front panel and a sturdy die-cast aluminium chassis that prevents resonance being transferred to the cabinet. At the acoustic center of the mid-range cone is the sophisticated vented tweeter that endows KEF Blade with such startlingly pure HF response. With a large neodymium magnet and a computer-optimized dome structure so stiff that it operates pistonically over its entire working range, the upper registers are articulated with flawless precision – and to capitalize on Uni-Q’s point source characteristics, KEF’s ‘tangerine’ waveguide helps to disperse the higher frequencies evenly across a wider angle to flood the room with an intricate and refreshingly natural soundfield. Operating together as a single, perfectly integrated voice, the array as a whole delivers a sweet, accurate sound of unprecedented clarity.

The new bass driver is equally impressive. The combination of a massive vented magnet assembly and a large, lightweight aluminium voice coil driving a light, stiff and strong hybrid cone assures clean, deep and uncompressed bass output with superb dynamics and power handling.

Inside the cabinets (in a choice of classic Piano Black and real wood veneer finishes in Rosewood or Walnut) every single component confirms KEF’s technology leadership. Computer-designed crossovers allow the level of each driver to be fine-tuned for a smoother, flatter response. Constrained layer damping panels prevent cabinet vibration from muddying the mid-range and bass – even the airflow through the reflex ports is managed using computational fluid dynamics to optimise acoustic integrity.

With nine timelessly handsome models including three assertive floor standers, two bookshelf speakers, two fully-specified center channels, dipole surrounds and a matching subwoofer, the all-new R Series represents a decisive step forward in the enjoyment of music or film. By incorporating the high end technologies of KEF Blade in a classically elegant format, it gives serious audiophiles phenomenally accurate reproduction that neither adds to nor subtracts from the original recording: refined, spacious and exquisitely detailed. For those whose appreciation of true audio excellence outstrips their bank balance, it’s the perfect buy.

The Phenomenal R Series -- Totally GORGEOUS !!



The R Series UniQ Driver - Blades Little Brother



No Driver Phase Plugs either - just Pure Engr. Innovation and they Measure as Such!
 
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its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
You have NO Answers just like I said before, you only ask Questions, your speakers must be so darn bad (Descends) you don't want anyone to know about any of your equipment.

You must be embarrassed by any questions someone asks of you. Stand up boy and say something meaningful.

Sounds to me like you just collect info. -- yield nothing to others - then run to the hills, with your little billyboopeep. :D
Really? Not very mature.
 
DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
I think it may be possible that you do not like the sound of the Harman International speakers.:D

You may or may not like the sound of KEF R900.

The same goes with all speakers out there.

Remember GranteedEV doesn't like the sound of Paradigm speakers, although their measurements seem to be very accurate.

So measurements are clearly not everything. :D

And that is why Dennis Murphy listens to each pair in addition to the speaker measurements.
How could GranteedEV not like Paradigm - they are a Canadian company, they have excellent measurements, and besides that have the highest rating on AH of the ten speakers listed!!

Grant said he liked the Classia's, but I don't think he has ever heard them. I own them, they are just OK to me, nothing great and really only worth maybe a couple hundred bucks for each tower.

But again, you do not know if you'll like your upcoming Philharmonic 3's by only looking at the specs. -- there is a third dimension to speakers, that mankind is still trying to understand -- what is that 3rd dimension = ?

Is it the variations of hearing from one human to another, and the ears connectivity to ones own brain and how the human being interprets the sound or if you know, I am ALL EARS (No Pun Intended)?
 
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GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
How could GranteedEV not like Paradigm - they are a Canadian company, they have excellent measurements, and besides that have the highest rating on AH of the ten speakers listed!!
The paradigm speakers i've heard, have sucked. like ADTG i've never heard signatures but if the Monitors/Studios are any indication, i'm not interested at all.

As for Canadian companies, I just about don't like any of em... ...the only Canadian speaker actually piques my interest is the Planar Tweeter Funkywaves speaker. Maybe you can drive up to Halfmoon Bay, BC and take a listen to those.

Grant said he liked the Classia's,
..and where was this? ....they're not my cup of tea, but not because they're dead/lifeless. If anything it's because they're edgy/aggressive on violin (and yes, the measurements do show this if you analyze them carefully enough FWIW).

as for bass, yes they're lean. Try placing them closer to the wall behind them for more impact.

Like I said, if you think the Classias are dead/lifeless/neutral, have you ever heard the KEFs?? I'd imagine they're going to suffocate you with their neutrality.

That's why I'm suggesting that your room must have a big impact on what you're hearing from the Classias. Yes I know all the Harman info on rooms/loudspeakers. Dr. Floyd Toole's book highlights much more acutely than the marketing paper you linked, I highly recommend reading it.
 
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DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
The paradigm speakers i've heard, have sucked. like ADTG i've never heard signatures but if the Monitors/Studios are any indication, i'm not interested at all.
You should have many audio shops in Calgary, AB, Canada that have Signature S6 or S8's there, right? I would only listen to the Millenia or Sigs. myself, unless they have some Studio Monitors set up also.

as for bass, yes they're lean. Try placing them closer to the wall behind them for more impact.
I put my ear directly on the rear terminus port, and shoot there is so little coming out of there, it is sad..! So putting them closer to the wall won't help that one for sure. I have them about 6" from the wall now.
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
Just a question when are these KEF R's supposed to be available for actual listening at a dealer ?
 
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