Kef "r"

[DenPureSound]

I wouldn't say Gene has trashed them outwardly but rather pointed out some of their flaws. I also know for a fact that some of us have bought or considered buying Axiom on his recommendations on this very forum..... It's very strange how business & advertising works but in the end I rather like my Axioms and I love my Sierra's and that's all that matters!

All that time, I thought you were here to Upgrade to KEF R Series.

 

[PENG]

I agree, but there's still the human factor of interpreting measurements. What might look like a good measurement, might be 1db to .5db off at a given frequency from what subjectively sounds accurate to the point of being offensive.

I prefer the TAD approach that Andrew Jones discusses. Basically, stay hard with your measurements, but listen aggressively to confirm. There's always stuff that the measurements might miss simply due to being the wrong measurement or poor application of perceptual research.

Even the Philharmonic speakers that measure great, were still subjectively voiced by Dennis Murphy at the end of it all.
Even Dr. Geddes who doesn't believe in subjective voicing, still has a shallow rolloff curve on his speakers to sound better on most material than to sound most accurate on the best material.

I am in full agreement with you (rarely lately). We do need subjective listening as part of the verification process. I do have major issue with the tone by ear or go by your own ears approach. I am going to exaggerate this to make a point, for those people I guess violins can sound like flutes as long as they sound good to their ears??

 

[DenPureSound]

Often, higher price is not equivalent to superior.

What has happened? You previously based you thoughts on manufacturers on measurements or lack there of.

BTW...not hassling you, it's just that your criteria is all over the board, and you don't seem to ever include listening for yourself.

Curtis --

Not true, historically Sound Quality will follow the price spiral upwards to a point of dimenishing returns, usually dictated by what the Human Being can hear, and what he/she is willing to pay for it.

Criteria is not all over the board, we start with the total dollars one has, then the textual specs, then a lot of plots, then some listening tests, then procurement phase shopping for best prices w/ auth. dealers, then more listening in ones room, and all along chatting w/ our audio experts at the shops , then Upgradis can set in again...

 

[cschang]

Curtis --

Not true, historically Sound Quality will follow the price spiral upwards to a point of dimenishing returns, usually dictated by what the Human Being can hear, and what he/she is willing to pay for it.

Criteria is not all over the board, we start with the total dollars one has, then the textual specs, then a lot of plots, then some listening tests, then procurement phase shopping for best prices w/ auth. dealers, then more listening in ones room, and all along chatting w/ our audio experts at the shops , then Upgradis can set in again...

That is what the sales and marketing folks want you to believe.

Like I said, you haven't done any listening to qualify anything you have read or have been told.

 

[cpp]

That is what the sales and marketing folks want you to believe.

yep it's amazing what marketing to do for equipment sales.

 

[DenPureSound]

That is what the sales and marketing folks want you to believe.

Like I said, you haven't done any listening to qualify anything you have read or have been told.

Sounds like you might want to listen yourself and certainly read a lot more, with those types of comments.


I have been listening to speakers for over 40 years! Go Figure that one out.
Sounds like your just starting out in Audio.

With all my experience I know who to listen to, insiders w/in my profession of Engr. seems to work very well, you might want to try it as many will be able to educate you also, and you might even find all the R900 plots available in digital format also.

 

[cschang]

Sounds like you might want to listen yourself and certainly read a lot more, with those types of comments.


I have been listening to speakers for over 40 years! Go Figure that one out.
Sounds like your just starting out in Audio.

With all my experience I know who to listen to, insiders w/in my profession of Engr. seems to work very well, you might want to try it as many will be able to educate you also, and you might even find all the R900 plots available in digital format also.

And why did you buy your Klipsch speakers?

You didn't even understand the difference between anechoic and pseudo-anechoic measurements a couple of weeks ago.

So what have you heard that you like?

 

[cschang]

BTW...DenPureSound, why the agressiveness?

Just trying to understand your criteria, and how you relate that to your preferences.

Reading all of your posts here and elsewhere, you don't seem to have a link between the two (criteria and preferences). Everything is "insider" info, or what you have read(which some you clearly didn't understand)...but nothing of any speakers you have heard and like.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Sounds like you might want to listen yourself and certainly read a lot more, with those types of comments.


I have been listening to speakers for over 40 years! Go Figure that one out.
Sounds like your just starting out in Audio.

With all my experience I know who to listen to, insiders w/in my profession of Engr. seems to work very well, you might want to try it as many will be able to educate you also, and you might even find all the R900 plots available in digital format also.

You should not have messed with the Ascend crowd, DenPureSound. Now they are after you.

 

[cschang]

You should not have messed with the Ascend crowd, DenPureSound. Now they are after you.

Yeah...watch out!

But seriously...what has he heard that he likes?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah...watch out!

But seriously...what has he heard that he likes?

Well, thus far it appears to me that he isn't completely satisfied with any speaker that he has heard in person.

He does have some inside information that regarding the R900. However, he is not privileged to disclosed.

 

[cschang]

Well, thus far it appears to me that he isn't completely satisfied with any speaker that he has heard in person.

He does have some inside information that regarding the R900. However, he is not privileged to disclosed.

Yeah...that's kind of what I'm getting at. What has he heard? Why doesn't he like them? And can he equate that to measurements he is always asking for?

Just loan him all of your speakers!

 

[GranteedEV]

And can he equate that to measurements he is always asking for?

Well supposedly he dislikes the C336, so we can deduce that he dislikes:

Speakers with an impulse response that decays as follows (after 8m appears to be the room):

Speakers with a smooth polar response:

Speakers with flat frequency response +/-1.5db in the ear's most sensitive passband:

The C336’s listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +2.22/–0.72 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. The –3-dB point is at 65 Hz, and the –6-dB point is at 55 Hz.

 

[DenPureSound]

BTW...DenPureSound, why the agressiveness?

Just trying to understand your criteria, and how you relate that to your preferences.

Reading all of your posts here and elsewhere, you don't seem to have a link between the two (criteria and preferences). Everything is "insider" info, or what you have read(which some you clearly didn't understand)...but nothing of any speakers you have heard and like.

CSChang -- certainly not aggressive, just all your posts say "Nothing" -- they are totally empty of any degree of technical content, so would you please contribute to this thread.

So, I will be like you, what are your Preferences?

From your posts, you do not contribute you just piss others off, Contribute Something besides audio emptiness. Just don't be a Troll on the board.

 

[DenPureSound]

Well supposedly he dislikes the C336, so we can deduce that he dislikes:

Speakers with an impulse response that decays as follows (after 8m appears to be the room):

Speakers with a smooth polar response:

Speakers with flat frequency response +/-1.5db in the ear's most sensitive passband:

Nice huh... NO they totally are lacking, but got a great Sale price on them. The Classias are really Laid BACK, not frontal at all w/o really any dynamic presence -- use all the words you want, they don't ROCK !!

Heck, my Klipsch's knock them way out of the park. Just shows you #'s still can fool you.

Tell ADTG that one --

 

[DenPureSound]

And why did you buy your Klipsch speakers?

You didn't even understand the difference between anechoic and pseudo-anechoic measurements a couple of weeks ago.

So what have you heard that you like?

Why don't you post your speakers and all your audio gear?

What speakers do you have?

What speakers do you like?

What speakers have you heard?

What plots do you have?

 

[billy p]

Why don't you post your speakers and all your audio gear?

What speakers do you have?

What speakers do you like?

What speakers have you heard?

What plots do you have?

Sounds like we struck a nerve....fwiw...Curtis has earned the repect of many forum members and not only those from the Ascend forum...you OTOH are a TROLL.

 

[DenPureSound]

You should not have messed with the Ascend crowd, DenPureSound. Now they are after you.

You stay out of this one, you spelled it wrong -- it is Descending.

Sorry, you meant to say DESCEND'g.... WHO, never heard of them?

Glad you did not put down my nice Canadian PARADIGM S8's.

 

[DenPureSound]

Op, change the title of this thread to "KEF - R Series", not "r" it is a

BIG "R" !!

 

[PENG]

You should not have messed with the Ascend crowd, DenPureSound. Now they are after you.

I like his rebuttal to my other friend Billy's counter comments to his comments on the Axiom speakers. Right or wrong he was very logical. But yeah you seem more street smart than DenPureSound.