Kef "r"

[DenPureSound]

UniQ Close Up - R Series

The shape of Innovation is Here! Soooo, sweeeet...

 

[3db]

That high-gloss piano black looks mighty fine to me.

you are so shallow man... going for the looks and not even to bother scratching the surface ermm underneath the surface that is .. just messin with you

 

[DenPureSound]

you are so shallow man... going for the looks and not even to bother scratching the surface ermm underneath the surface that is .. just messin with you

ADTG always puts Looks over Sound Quality, how come?

Yes, I know he wants both of them, and needs more time to listen to all those speakers there...

 

[billy p]

From my KEF friend:

Those that have heard the R's that we currently have have been very impressed, not only by their detail and openness, but also by their lack of boxiness in their sound.

They sure look purdy any 3rd party measurments we can really sink our teeth into.. otherwise...it's all speculation or marketing hyperbole...

just saying...

Btw we miss you at the Ascend forum....

 

[DenPureSound]

They sure look purdy any 3rd party measurments we can really sink our teeth into.. otherwise...it's all speculation or marketing hyperbole...

just saying...

Btw we miss you at the Ascend forum....

The boat is on its way now from China for the High Gloss Black R900's, and the Cherry and Rosewood finished product is scheduled to be out in Jan. 2012.

Have not seen any 3rd Party plots, probably another month or so before others review them. But knowing KEF has Full Anechoic Chamber(s) to work from, I would not disagree with their specs at:

United States - Showroom - R900

Billy P -- did you buy those Ascend Towers?

 

[billy p]

The boat is on its way now from China for the High Gloss Black R900's, and the Cherry and Rosewood finished product is scheduled to be out in Jan. 2012.

Have not seen any 3rd Party plots, probably another month or so before others review them. But knowing KEF has Full Anechoic Chamber(s) to work from, I would not disagree with their specs at:

United States - Showroom - R900

Billy P -- did you buy those Ascend Towers?

Well...I'll have to decline further comment until I see some real world 3rd party mesurments or have a listen myself..... As for owning your own anechoic chamber...it's a moot point....I believe Axiom has one too....

No, I don't own the Towers but they're an upgrade option for me down the road.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

you are so shallow man... going for the looks and not even to bother scratching the surface ermm underneath the surface that is .. just messin with you

ADTG always puts Looks over Sound Quality, how come?

Yes, I know he wants both of them, and needs more time to listen to all those speakers there...

I'm like that Canon camera commercial: "Image - it's everything!"

That's right. If I don't like the looks, I won't even listen to them.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well...I'll have to decline further comment until I see some real world 3rd party mesurments or have a listen myself..... As for owning your own anechoic chamber...it's a moot point....I believe Axiom has one too....

I hope you are not putting Axiom in the same category as KEF.

 

[GranteedEV]

I'm like that Canon camera commercial: "Image - it's everything!"

I'm like the Grant Hill commercial "Image is nothing, Thirst is everything"

I hope you are not putting Axiom in the same category as KEF.

I think they're in a very similar category. Both their sub-$2000 speakers are ugly 2.5 ways that use big metal drivers with no trap circuits on the woofer cone, minimal bracing, cheap crossover components .

The difference is that KEF has $4000+ cost no object speakers while axiom doesn't. That, and KEF has used coaxials for ages while axiom apparently controls directivity with low crossover points and multiple drivers.

Their methodologies seem to be really similar.

Andrew Jones (TAD Designer and former KEF Chief Engineer) had this to say about KEF:

While maybe KEF was too far one way -- in the sense that it was so engineering based that most of the design was just from an engineering point of view, and the sound was intended to come from the engineering -- a lot of other companies almost don’t care about the engineering, they just “listen and tweak,” and does it sound “good.” Meaning, does it sound accurate (if you know what accurate means) or does it just sound pleasant? They don’t care what the engineering says, so long as their ears tell them something. These are two polar opposites. At KEF we may have been too far the one way, and now I’m trying to marry them together. So I have to maybe accept and listen to things that would have gotten me thrown out of KEF. While I try to reason through it, I strive to remain rigorous in my methodology.

 

[PENG]

Andrew Jones (TAD Designer and former KEF Chief Engineer) had this to say about KEF:

It is good to know they focus on engineering (objective) instead of the listen and tweak approach (mostly subjective). To me accuracy is everything I want and need. I want my speakers to sound like what I hear in the concert hall. I know it won't be the same for many reasons, but the design goal should be accuracy regardless of the other factors. I wish all their competitors adopt the same philosophy but I know I may well be among the very few that have such wish.

 

[GranteedEV]

It is good to know they focus on engineering (objective) instead of the listen and tweak approach (mostly subjective). To me accuracy is everything I want and need. I want my speakers to sound like what I hear in the concert hall. I know it won't be the same for many reasons, but the design goal should be accuracy regardless of the other factors. I wish all their competitors adopt the same philosophy but I know I may well be among the very few that have such wish.

I agree, but there's still the human factor of interpreting measurements. What might look like a good measurement, might be 1db to .5db off at a given frequency from what subjectively sounds accurate to the point of being offensive.

I prefer the TAD approach that Andrew Jones discusses. Basically, stay hard with your measurements, but listen aggressively to confirm. There's always stuff that the measurements might miss simply due to being the wrong measurement or poor application of perceptual research.

Even the Philharmonic speakers that measure great, were still subjectively voiced by Dennis Murphy at the end of it all.
Even Dr. Geddes who doesn't believe in subjective voicing, still has a shallow rolloff curve on his speakers to sound better on most material than to sound most accurate on the best material.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well a "little" bit of audio artistry fine tuning is fine, as long as the majority of of the speaker building was done with excellent engineering and accuracy.

 

[DenPureSound]

How to Break-In Your New KEF's

"Your dealer is right that it will take quite a while for the speakers to fully break in. 100hrs is typical. You can use them straight away and you do not have to treat them differently/more carefully out the box - it is just that the sound will improve as they are run in.

If you just use them normally then after a week of daily use (2 hrs a day or so) then they will reach the run in state. If you want to leave them running continuously then you can get over this initial stage more quickly. I tend to judge the level for run in by looking at the Bass driver cone motion - turn it up until you can see a couple of mm of cone motion on the Bass drivers (probably closer to 90dB at 10ft in a room from two speakers).

If you need to you can put the speakers face to face and reverse the polarity of one speaker cables - this will exercise the drivers but will be much quieter than running them in at the normal left right positions (the sound from each speaker will cancel)."

Directly from KEF Research Engr. Dept.

 

[DenPureSound]

I hope you are not putting Axiom in the same category as KEF.

DITTO -- KEF is in Another League, compared to Axioms.

 

[cschang]

Andrew Jones (TAD Designer and former KEF Chief Engineer)

I have met Andrew on a few occasions, as well as heard his TAD and Pioneer products. Great guy and great speakers. I would love to have a pair of TADs in my living room!
Consumer：TAD

 

[cschang]

DITTO -- KEF is in Another League, compared to Axioms.

I agree from hearing hearing the speakers, but what are you basing your thoughts on?

 

[DenPureSound]

I agree from hearing hearing the speakers, but what are you basing your thoughts on?

I heard it thru the grapevine, didn't Gene trash the Axioms previously? Also, consider just looking at the MSRP of the R900 at $5K vs. the top Axioms M80v3 at $1440. That tells me a lot as there is a reason the MSRP is at totally different levels.

I will admit the Axiom M80v3 surely measures well, similar to the KEF R900's (?), but we will have to wait until some 3rd parties review the KEF R900's to tell us the full picture.

 

[cschang]

I heard it thru the grapevine, didn't Gene trash the Axioms previously? Also, consider just looking at the MSRP of the R900 at $5K vs. the top Axioms M80v3 at $1440. That tells me a lot as there is a reason the MSRP is at totally different levels.

I will admit the Axiom M80v3 surely measures well, similar to the KEF R900's (?), but we will have to wait until some 3rd parties review the KEF R900's to tell us the full picture.

Often, higher price is not equivalent to superior.

What has happened? You previously based you thoughts on manufacturers on measurements or lack there of.

BTW...not hassling you, it's just that your criteria is all over the board, and you don't seem to ever include listening for yourself.

 

[billy p]

I heard it thru the grapevine, didn't Gene trash the Axioms previously? Also, consider just looking at the MSRP of the R900 at $5K vs. the top Axioms M80v3 at $1440. That tells me a lot as there is a reason the MSRP is at totally different levels.

I will admit the Axiom M80v3 surely measures well, similar to the KEF R900's (?), but we will have to wait until some 3rd parties review the KEF R900's to tell us the full picture.

I wouldn't say Gene has trashed them outwardly but rather pointed out some of their flaws. I also know for a fact that some of us have bought or considered buying Axiom on his recommendations on this very forum..... It's very strange how business & advertising works but in the end I rather like my Axioms and I love my Sierra's and that's all that matters!

 

[DenPureSound]

​

I wouldn't say Gene has trashed them outwardly but rather pointed out some of their flaws. I also know for a fact that some of us have bought or considered buying Axiom on his recommendations on this very forum..... It's very strange how business & advertising works but in the end I rather like my Axioms and I love my Sierra's and that's all that matters!

Sure thing, and I LOVE my KLIPSCH also , but want other Fronts, like KEF R900's that measure very close to Ruler-Flat.

When you back out the profit margin, then encl. costs, then Xover ccts., then some damping materials, a plinth/feet, human labor costs, shipping costs/duties, your left with the cost of the drivers, and if you start w/ $1440/Pair like the Axiom M80v3, that should leave you with maybe $150+ for all drivers per speaker -- look at it from that perspective!

Now, out of that has to come Qty. 6 drivers... that is where I start to think the Rubber Meets the Road, per sey.

But if your Happy w/ that sound, that is all that counts in the End Run!