KEF LS50 Amplification - Crown XLI2500?

[<eargiant]

Was it condescending when you wrote that you feel sorry for people who can't hear differences in DACs?

Don't put words in my mouth. What I said was "I know, people here will say you can't hear the differences in those measurements when it suits them. And for them I feel truly sorry because..." I was eluding to people that move the goal posts when it suits them. Again, if it was an amp- wouldn't it be easy for you to say which one sounds superior based on those measurements. Just looking at the roll-off is an easy one.

So no, it was not condescending. I truly feel sorry that newbies might come here and read the BS that guys like you are spewing and never experience something more than mediocrity and even worse, kid themselves into believing that it's as good as it gets.

 

[Beave]

So, again, tell us how you level-match in your comparisons where the different DACs are easily distinguishable?

 

[<eargiant]

So, again, tell us how you level-match in your comparisons where the different DACs are easily distinguishable?

Ohh you're right... I just checked again and the Dragonfly sound exactly like the Benchmark. Can you stop badgering now?

Good night.

 

[Beave]

It would really help those poor newbies if you would explain how you level match.

 

[Danzilla31]

Man I'm not picking sides here but this sure isn't the op's original question and this is Kind off getting ugly might I respectfully suggest you gentleman settle this possible wager via PM.

Or start a separate thread on your discussion. I'm actually if you guys take up your wager interested in a thread from you both on the outcome of any testing.

I'd like to hear results from such a test using components of different price ranges would be interesting

 

[Russdawg1]

I'm hoping that the mods here aren't nearly as uptight and inconsistent as the mods at AVS.

I’m going to have to agree with you on this one. AVS mods have problems.

Buddy of mine got an infraction for pointing out problems and being right (he may have been targeting Chane, and Jon Lane does have his hand up AVS’s ass lol)

 

[Beave]

I’m going to have to agree with you on this one. AVS mods have problems.

Buddy of mine got an infraction for pointing out problems and being right (he may have been targeting Chane, and Jon Lane does have his hand up AVS’s ass lol)

Yeah, I have lots of stories of ridiculous infractions they've given people over the years. I stopped posting there because of it.

 

[Beave]

Man I'm not picking sides here but this sure isn't the op's original question and this is Kind off getting ugly might I respectfully suggest you gentleman settle this possible wager via PM.

Or start a separate thread on your discussion. I'm actually if you guys take up your wager interested in a thread from you both on the outcome of any testing.

I'd like to hear results from such a test using components of different price ranges would be interesting

To me, the OP's question was already answered as much as it was gonna be. I waited before jumping in on this.

I can see that this appears ugly to some readers, but it's not heated to me at all. It's not like we're physically threatening each other or anything. Just good old online arguing!

But if the OP was expecting more answers regarding the amplifiers and the KEFs, I apologize for contributing to the hijacking of this thread.

 

[Beave]

I'm gonna have to start quoting all of eargiant's original posts. He's still going back and editing them - something around 10 of his last 11 posts.

 

[Beave]

Don't put words in my mouth. What I said was "I know, people here will say you can't hear the differences in those measurements when it suits them. And for them I feel truly sorry because..." I was eluding to people that move the goal posts when it suits them. Again, if it was an amp- wouldn't it be easy for you to say which one sounds superior based on those measurements. Just looking at the roll-off is an easy one.

So no, it was not condescending. I truly feel sorry that newbies might come here and read the BS that guys like you are spewing and never experience something more than mediocrity and even worse, kid themselves into believing that it's as good as it gets.

eluding?

 

[<eargiant]

I'm gonna have to start quoting all of eargiant's original posts. He's still going back and editing them - something around 10 of his last 11 posts.

Sure, 'cause idiots like you keep parsing every word so I have to be sure I dot my "I's" and cross my "T's".

Really, looking at edit history? Now grow up, get a life and leave me alone.

 

[Beave]

lol, you've edited that post at least twice.

 

[KenM10759]

Was it condescending when you wrote that you feel sorry for people who can't hear differences in DACs?

I never took it that way. My son swears he can barely hear a difference between his KEF Q series speakers and my R series speakers. There was a time (not long ago) when I couldn't hear differences in amps or DACs. It's still not profound, but I hear it as my time with systems is longer and then a change is made. I don't know that I'll ever get to hearing differences in speaker cables, and truthfully will be grateful if so because I can't afford to get into that aspect.

Perhaps you could just ignore & find it's not worth your time to respond to everything you might find even a little irritating....even if others don't?

 

[John Parks]

Talk about being obtuse...

On the contrary - I am quite acute!

 

[Trell]

On the contrary - I am quite acute!
View attachment 28859

I think he did not look at your post from the right angle.

 

[John Parks]

I think he did not look at your post from the right angle.

isosceles what you did there!

 

[JerryLove]

Why would you assume that? Can you elaborate?

There was allusion to different sounds from different DACs (presumably between the two integrated amps involved).

I presumed that the two must otherwise sound (hence: the same when listening to a record) the same or it would not be possible to separate different DAC from the rest of the differences.

 

[JerryLove]

Test gear? Of course the differences are measurable by modern test gear (even though I don't think we are yet able to measure exactly how we hear, or everything that is important). Just compare JAs measurements of the Audioquest Dragonfly DACs vs the Meridian Explorer2 and even between those two relatively lateral moves there are differences in measurements (bit resolution and bandwidth are two). Then look at his measurements of Benchmark DAC2/ DAC3. There are plenty of differences within the audible band.

Thank you for the links. I'm a big fan of measurements.

To my hobbyist eye: what I'm seeing looks mostly like noise/behavior on the amp stage; and with most of it -100db or lower, I'm not sure it's something I'd notice in listening; but it's great to have data.

YMMV, people can chose what they want but I think most attentive listeners will easily be able to hear the clear differences between an entry level DAC and something like the Benchmark if they spend some time with both.

I've, of course, listened to DACs all through the price range; but I've never done an A/B (much less blind A/B) DAC test. I've not noticed sound quality issues / differences and so remain skeptical that (outside of deliberate altering) there's audible difference; but we'll never know if we don't discuss/measure/listen: which is what you are doing.