JTR RS1 or PSA S3012

[Timforhifi]

Maybe some pictures of you room would help. Also definitive technology is what a lot of us had at one time. What models are you using? I think with better sub placement you’d see a much different in room response. Ypao doesn’t do a great job with room correction but parametric manual eq is great when used with rew.

 

[Rzelinka]

Maybe some pictures of you room would help. Also definitive technology is what a lot of us had at one time. What models are you using? I think with better sub placement you’d see a much different in room response. Ypao doesn’t do a great job with room correction but parametric manual eq is great when used with rew.

That’s exactly what I have done. I used REW with manual eq. It’s as dialed in as it can be at this point until I upgrade to the Trinnov l, at which point we are in a completely different league.

My room is a standard rectangle room. Single row of 3 reclining chairs set 10 feet back from the screen. I have Def Tech BP2000TL left and right in each front corner, an amp stand next to the tower, a table for my processor, a smaller amp for for Atmos channels and video sources, then another amp stand. That takes up the entire front wall. The subs then are on the side walls, in front of the towers, 6 feet from the front wall. I suppose I could move the amps and buy longer XLR cables. Could maybe put a sub in the back of the room, left corner. Can’t do a right corner as the door is there.


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[Timforhifi]

Bp2000tl are great towers! Do you run them small or large and if small what crossover? A lone they should have decent output. I had bp3000tl at one time then went to bp7000 with clr 3000

 

[Rzelinka]

Bp2000tl are great towers! Do you run them small or large and if small what crossover? A lone they should have decent output. I had bp3000tl at one time then went to bp7000 with clr 3000

They are great and matched with the CLR 3000 center and 4 BPVX surrounds and backs.

Bipolar design isn’t ideal for Atmos in my opinion. It was fabulous for traditional Dolby and DTS content. That’s why I will be selling the whole setup soon.

I run them small. Tried different crossover points, and landed on 80hz as the best place. Don’t use the internal subs at all and don’t even have them plugged in.


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[William Lemmerhirt]

To your point about chuffing. Pretty much all ported subs will chuff if driven hard enough. IME there’s so much other noise in the room at those drive levels, the chuffing is completely unnoticeable so I wouldn’t use that as a factor. Most people complaining about that are using some waves, or the EOT intro which is about as stupid of reference for chuffing ever. I still think a boss would suit you.
OR, build a pair of devastators and never look back.
Also, the fv18’s have a 12hz tune. Not sure why that would disappoint[emoji41]

 

[Timforhifi]

I had dual fv18pc and never made them chuff at extreme levels. Now I have monolith 15 subs and zero chuffing. Really depends on port size and being well designed.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

YeH, I think chuffing is completely overblown. It does exist for sure. I just don’t think it’s a relevant factor. Imo, for HT especially, big ported subs just can’t be beat. Sorry read about your friends love of 40hz bass lol.

 

[Verdinut]

William, I entirely agree with you. The port chuffing possibility is indeed exaggerated.
If a vented box is designed with a port area which is adequate for the cone area of the subwoofer driver, also taking into account that duct ends are usually flared nowadays, that possibility is slim.

In my opinion, at high SPL if chuffing occurred, the sound reproduced by the sub would bury the noise produced by that said chuffing.

 

[Danzilla31]

YeH, I think chuffing is completely overblown. It does exist for sure. I just don’t think it’s a relevant factor. Imo, for HT especially, big ported subs just can’t be beat. Sorry read about your friends love of 40hz bass lol.

I'm LOVING my Rythmik FV18'S!!!! I've made my room shake but haven't gotten them to chuff yet. You need to get off your butt and order these my friend. I've owned and flipped a lot of gear these are my favorite subs I've ever owned

 

[Danzilla31]

My processor is the Yamaha 5200, and used their native YPAO correction. It’s not great so I also did it the old fashioned way with an SPL meter. To my ears, the SPL meter sounded much better. To your point, it’s my system and I have to like it.

I plan to upgrade the processor to Trinnov at some point but that’s a year or so down the road.

As for sub placement, I don’t have many options given the equipment and seating. The subs are on the side walls, in front of L and R bed layer towers. All bed layer speakers will also be replaced down the road as well. My Def Tech setup was great when I bought it in 2003 but not ideal for Atmos today given their bi-polar design so those will be sold too.

It’s a work in progress which I am doing in stages and want to get as close to end game gear as possible with all stages.

I did run REW with the UMIK1, I don’t get much of anything below 18hz in my room. I understand there’s not much content below 20 but also understand the HSU ULS 15 MK2’s aren’t designed to go that low. From reviews and published stats I read tuned ports are and and the JTR is too. I have no experience with ported subs and reading about port chuffing has me a bit nervous which is why I am wanting to stay with what I know which are sealed subs.

Stats on anything from PSA are hard to come by which is why some recommend against them. Given my room layout and sub placement the design of the PSA S3012 was interesting.

I haven’t tried a mini dsp. Maybe worth a try. I’m running all XLR connections so it wouldn’t be the 2x4 most everyone uses.

Thank you for the thoughtful response


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Ah the Yammy A5200 I LOVE mine. Like you I found the room correction to be desired and preferred setting mine up manually .

It's an awesome sounding pre though but that's its one weakness is Yamahas room correction.

Chuffing is way overblown I've never made any ported sub I've owned chuff

I've owned sealed as well but for going low in home theater usage ported is the winner. It costs too much money and takes too much power to do it with sealed subs.

Since your using xlr connects like I do you'd get the mindsp flex the balanced version. Not cheap but it's what you'd use.

 

[Rzelinka]

Ah the Yammy A5200 I LOVE mine. Like you I found the room correction to be desired and preferred setting mine up manually .

It's an awesome sounding pre though but that's its one weakness is Yamahas room correction.

Chuffing is way overblown I've never made any ported sub I've owned chuff

I've owned sealed as well but for going low in home theater usage ported is the winner. It costs too much money and takes too much power to do it with sealed subs.

Since your using xlr connects like I do you'd get the mindsp flex the balanced version. Not cheap but it's what you'd use.

Thank you. Maybe I will look at ported again. Rhythmik is likely closest to the sound signature form my velodynes which finally kicked the bucket a few years ago. Big power and controlled servo subs.

The Yamaha 5200 is a good processor. I got a good deal on it but bought it as a temporary solution. It will be sold and replaced by a Trinnov. YOLO


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[Timforhifi]

Why trinnov? It’s a nice product but are you running a huge room with 16-32 channels?

I own an arcam avr20 and did the hdmi upgrade. I like that the arcam still had a usable on screen display, quality dac, dirac and 16 channels. Right now dealers are selling avr 20 cheaper too.

I'm sure the trinov is good as well but expensive. Also if you owned the velodyne servo subs from many years ago you’ll love Rythmik. Rythmik even had spl comparison of sealed f18 vs velo dd18. That velodyne was their biggest most expensive and has decent output but by today’s standards it’s definitely not cutting edge.

 

[Rzelinka]

Why trinnov? It’s a nice product but are you running a huge room with 16-32 channels?

I own an arcam avr20 and did the hdmi upgrade. I like that the arcam still had a usable on screen display, quality dac, dirac and 16 channels. Right now dealers are selling avr 20 cheaper too.

I'm sure the trinov is good as well but expensive. Also if you owned the velodyne servo subs from many years ago you’ll love Rythmik. Rythmik even had spl comparison of sealed f18 vs velo dd18. That velodyne was their biggest most expensive and has decent output but by today’s standards it’s definitely not cutting edge.

I’m looking to build my system with what I consider to be the top of the line. I would submit Trinnov is that for sound processing. I will also replace my amps at the same time. I’m running three Rotel RMB 1095’s now. That’s all in a future phase.

Back in the day I went with lexicon for the same reason. It lasted me 15 years. I plan to run a 9.2.4 setup with ascendo speakers. They pair nicely with Trinnov. Money is not a large concern. I want to do it right and not touch it again for a while.

Arcam, AudioControl, JBL, anthem is all nice stuff. A step up from Yamaha, Denon, etc. a step down from Trinnov in my opinion. The Trinnov is basically a high end computer running Linux so it’s built with processing power.

Nothing I am looking at will be cheap, I understand that. Can’t take the money with you


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[ryanosaur]

If money is no object, Trinnov is definitely considered the top of the pile.

I would contend that looking at RTJ subwoofers (alongside JTR) would likelwise be a step up from what you can do with any of the gear we have been discussing here. I think the newer Monolith Subs (13, 16) show they can do anything asked of them, but going beyond the level of Monolith and Rythmik is possible. I'm not a fan of saying that you will hear a sound signature at those low frequencies, but there are definite aspects of performance that can be stepped up in the realm of output vs distortion. But chasing those specs gets expensive for potentially little audible difference.
Remember, even at the level of the Monoliths and Rythmiks, we are already far beyond the old school one-note fart boxes of the past. New design methodology has been a great equalizer in relegating the old subwoofer mythology to the graveyard.

 

[Rzelinka]

If money is no object, Trinnov is definitely considered the top of the pile.

I would contend that looking at RTJ subwoofers (alongside JTR) would likelwise be a step up from what you can do with any of the gear we have been discussing here. I think the newer Monolith Subs (13, 16) show they can do anything asked of them, but going beyond the level of Monolith and Rythmik is possible. I'm not a fan of saying that you will hear a sound signature at those low frequencies, but there are definite aspects of performance that can be stepped up in the realm of output vs distortion. But chasing those specs gets expensive for potentially little audible difference.
Remember, even at the level of the Monoliths and Rythmiks, we are already far beyond the old school one-note fart boxes of the past. New design methodology has been a great equalizer in relegating the old subwoofer mythology to the graveyard.

That is what has me leaning towards the JTRs. I do consider them to be a step above monolith, PSA, rhythmik, definitely HSU. I will concede the differences might be subtle and perhaps inaudible, I’ll know the difference though and if I need support then I know I can get it. That’s in question to me with monolith.


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[Timforhifi]

Trinov room correction to me is a step below dirac. Everything else will be comparable and won’t effect sound signature much. I don’t know for sure but trinov hdmi has had issues reported by users. Also they haven’t updated to run new hdmi 2.1 specs. I’d wait for that update before you buy one.

also rose Rotel 1095 are great amps. It’ll be hard to find a better class a/b in that size chassis. Clean 200x5 75lb amp.

 

[ryanosaur]

That’s in question to me with monolith.

My understanding is they have made some significant changes lately in their CS game (at Monoprice). I haven't seen or heard much recently in the way of complaints, but that is really neither here nor there.
If you are going the way of Trinnov, you will clearly be dealing with some specialized distributor/installers... It may well be worth seeing if the RTJ can be had at a lower pricepoint than what they list on the web. The video Gene did with Poes for RTJ was pretty impressive and I can't help but feel those may well be some of the best Subs available outside of aesthetic concerns.

 

[Rzelinka]

Trinov room correction to me is a step below dirac. Everything else will be comparable and won’t effect sound signature much. I don’t know for sure but trinov hdmi has had issues reported by users. Also they haven’t updated to run new hdmi 2.1 specs. I’d wait for that update before you buy one.

also rose Rotel 1095 are great amps. It’ll be hard to find a better class a/b in that size chassis. Clean 200x5 75lb amp.

I’m not going to get to the processor for another year or so. By then they should have the hdmi upgrade and any issues worked out.

My first phase was to buy the projector, screen, lens and video processor.

The next phase is the speakers and subs and the last phase is the processor and amps.

I love the Rotel amps. I am biased but I tend to agree with you.They’re almost 20 years old now so I’m expecting to have to service them at some point. Starting to hear some clicking in one of them which is a relay from the trigger and probably need to recap them. I will likely go with the Trinnov amp too as the connection is clean with the DB 25 connectors


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[Danzilla31]

I’m not going to get to the processor for another year or so. By then they should have the hdmi upgrade and any issues worked out.

My first phase was to buy the projector, screen, lens and video processor.

The next phase is the speakers and subs and the last phase is the processor and amps.

I love the Rotel amps. I am biased but I tend to agree with you.They’re almost 20 years old now so I’m expecting to have to service them at some point. Starting to hear some clicking in one of them which is a relay from the trigger and probably need to recap them. I will likely go with the Trinnov amp too as the connection is clean with the DB 25 connectors


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I agree totally with @ryanosaur now that I understand your budget and your goals I really have to recommend RTJ. It's the same company as JTR but they take it to another level then even what they do as JTR.

I am completely happy with my Rythmiks but if I had your design goals in mind I would go with JTR or RTJ

 

[Danzilla31]

I’m not going to get to the processor for another year or so. By then they should have the hdmi upgrade and any issues worked out.

My first phase was to buy the projector, screen, lens and video processor.

The next phase is the speakers and subs and the last phase is the processor and amps.

I love the Rotel amps. I am biased but I tend to agree with you.They’re almost 20 years old now so I’m expecting to have to service them at some point. Starting to hear some clicking in one of them which is a relay from the trigger and probably need to recap them. I will likely go with the Trinnov amp too as the connection is clean with the DB 25 connectors


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ATI is my vote for your amp purchase