It's Mueller Time!

[panteragstk]

I'm not normally one to get into these thread just because people find it difficult to remain civil (not a jab at anyone, just a sad truth). I would really like to have a good discussion about some of the things that really are important to us as a country.

As for the socialist side, I think social programs should exist. Lots of them do and people are fine with them (mostly because they don't realize that they are social programs). @GO-NAD! already pointed out that fire, police, schools (public), medicare, and other programs are already in place and lots of people use them without thinking about it.

Imagine if none of those were social programs? Getting a bill from the fire department after they put out a house fire that totally destroyed your house? That would make people flip out, but it's fine when you go to the hospital. God forbid you get an out of network doctor to treat you when you're unconscious. There has to be something that can be done to fix it. Our dear president (cough) was supposed to, but we still have crazy high insurance prices (single income, 3 small kids) and prescription drugs being totally priced at the whim of the manufacturers is fine until they do an insane price hike.

I get that changing a system that's as complicated as the insurance, hospitals, and pharma companies have made it will be all but impossible. Especially when they lobby so much that they pretty much get to do what they want.

This is just one of many points. Everyone is always distracted with pointing out how liberals do this or republicans think this and fail to realize we have issues that need to be fixed (medical is just the example I chose for this post) and they have NOTHING to do with what your philosophy is when it comes to government.

I'm all for a free market, but it should never be OK for the companies in that free market to own the governing body that regulates or passes laws to ensure that things don't get out of hand to the point they have. Medicine is just one of MANY examples of how companies are screwing us and our government does nothing about it.

I guess that makes me more conservative than I thought. If our HUGE, convoluted government isn't going to regulate what needs regulating and stay out of what isn't their business, why do they need to be so big? They obviously don't have a good approval rating and yet they get elected because we have such a limited choice.

It seems like all they really do is argue about things and never accomplish anything.

I guess congress really is the opposite of progress.

 

[RedCharles]

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/06/13/why_are_the_western_middle_classes_so_angry_140551.html

I go back and forth, wondering whether civilizations run on rails or if our future lies within an endless expanse of possibilities. None of you can know for sure either, but I'm sure that would not stop some here from pontificating on the nature of being human with a level of certitude that would make even the most malignant narcissist blush.

I'm inclined to believe that our biological reality shapes the contour of our civilization and carves out it's limits. But at the same time, there is a creative spirit in humans, the young especially, that is not present in other species. Our civilization faces intractable problems that are impossible to solve with our current toolset. If there is a way out our decline, it's through new technology, not politics.

I am hopeful that we are not like those mice, despite some of the signs that we are.

 

[markw]

I can see y'alls hatred of Trump will over-ride any and all arguments to defend him so I'll just leave this here but, please note, his two biggest detractors in this thread are not From America. One is from Canada and the other is from Germany, both of which have their own problems with crappy leaders.

With the liberal leaders of these countries seem to be doing their best to weaken and or destroy their cultural identity (assuming Canada actually has one), I think they might be jealous that our president, while brash and arrogant, is doing all he can to stem the liberal tide trying to drag this country to the dark side. And, after eight years of obama dividing us, that's no small task.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I can see y'alls hatred of Trump will over-ride any and all arguments to defend him so I'll just leave this here but, please note, his two biggest detractors in this thread are not From America. One is from Canada and the other is from Germany, both of which have their own problems with crappy leaders.

With the liberal leaders of these countries seem to be doing their best to weaken and or destroy their cultural identity (assuming Canada actually has one),I think they might be jealous that our president, while brash and arrogant, is doing all he can to stem the liberal tide trying to drag this country to the dark side. And, after eight years of obama dividing us, that's no small task.

Does Canada have a crappy leader? Hmmm, in some respects, yes he is. I would still take him over Mr. Trump.
So, what's the correct "cultural identity" for our countries?

I guess you may have something in common with the Indigenous peoples of North and South America - I'm quite sure they wish the cultural identity of the continents hadn't been transformed either. So, who are we - descendants of European immigrants - to decide what "cultures" are acceptable in our respective countries?

And, if Obama divided you, do you think Trump is going to unite you? Call me a sceptic on that.

Some light reading:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/06/ahmari-french-orban/591697/

 

[panteragstk]

And, if Obama divided you, do you think Trump is going to unite you? Call me a sceptic on that.

Sadly the only thing that ever seems to unite us is war...look at the approval rating for post 9/11 in 2001.

Once we aren't dealing with something our country considers a national tragedy (unless it's our own people killing each other with guns, then it gets even worse) we are too busy calling each other asinine names tied to which party we support. It's stupid and counterproductive.

If we could just have a civil discussion about the things we agree on instead of harping incessantly about what we don't agree on we might actually accomplish something. Sadly our news outlets and the cesspool that is social media is doing an excellent job of keeping us focused on how "dumb" the opposing side is. The fact that we consider people in our country to be on opposing sides is pretty much the opposite of United States. United people anyway.

Coming together and demanding change from our government will never happen if people continue on this way.

 

[cpd]

Your argument makes much sense, but if we are to take the 11% approval ratings and 94.6% re-elected at face value, I'll side with @markw and say that discrepancy is awfully big. Something is amiss here.

There isn't any discrepancy, because they are not measuring the same thing. The 11% measures the public perception of an organization. The 94% measures a limited group of people's perception of one person in that organization.

Look at it this way...take a political race where a person, call them Congressperson Smith, won 56%-44%. So already 44% of the people disapprove of Congressperson Smith. As for the 56%, although Congressperson Smith gets to go to Congress, so do a lot of other Congresspeople that don't share the values of the 56% who voted for Congressperson Smith. Because there are so many differing value sets in Congress, the things Congressperson Smith campaigned on largely cannot get accomplished. So the bulk of the 56% that voted for Congressperson Smith do not like Congress either. But when Congressperson Smith is up for re-election, the 56% will vote for Congressperson Smith because Congressperson Smith still shares their values.

Nothing is amiss. The numbers merely reflect the nature of a representative form of government during a time when the values of American people are far from homogeneous. That's the beauty of the system. When the public is aligned on issues things can get accomplished. When the public is not aligned things may not be able to get accomplished, but because those things don't represent the will of the people they are not supposed to get accomplished.

 

[markw]

Does Canada have a crappy leader? Hmmm, in some respects, yes he is. I would still take him over Mr. Trump.

...and you can have him.

So, what's the correct "cultural identity" for our countries?

Hard to say, but Canada sure looks a lot like America. Do you still have rebadged American cars up there?

I guess you may have something in common with the Indigenous peoples of North and South America - I'm quite sure they wish the cultural identity of the continents hadn't been transformed either. So, who are we - descendants of European immigrants - to decide what "cultures" are acceptable in our respective countries?

For us, it's the one that's here now. We've got a Constitution that defines us although the left is trying to chip away at it.

And, if Obama divided you, do you think Trump is going to unite you? Call me a sceptic on that.

Well, we'll see. For those with eyes that see and ears that listen, not just hear, they would realize that he's done more good for a wide spectrum of people in two years than his predecessor did in eight years..

and, the word you want is "skeptic". sceptic sounds like an underground tank for human waste.

Some light reading:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/06/ahmari-french-orban/591697/[/QUOTE]

 

[adk highlander]

For us, it's the one that's here now. We've got a Constitution that defines us although the left is trying to chip away at it.

Ok Mark. I am done with you and this supposed defense of the constitution that you keep harping on about. That is such a bunch of bull. This administration is constantly trying to get around the rule of law or just plain ignoring it. He has taken executive privilege to a new level after he cried that Obama used it. Look at the Hatch act and the constant flaunting of ignoring the rules. Then there are just the outright lies that come out of his mouth. How can you really defend that? And now he says he would talk to foreign states and not refer it to the FBI.

Well, we'll see. For those with eyes that see and ears that listen, not just hear, they would realize that he's done more good for a wide spectrum of people in two years than his predecessor did in eight years..

Give me one example of a "good" thing that has come from this administration. Nothing got done while they had complete control of congress and nothing is getting done now. If you think the tax cut was good well our children's children will still have the deficit he created to deal with. He still has the Muppet McConnell who had made it his life's work to block anything Obama tried to do.

 

[markw]

I'll keep this simple for ya,

If you want a bit more detail, https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/the-historic-results-of-president-donald-j-trumps-first-two-years-in-office/

 

[John Parks]

Here are a few listing a few more than just "one" good thing this administration has done:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/trumps-list-289-accomplishments-in-just-20-months-relentless-promise-keeping
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/may/6/giving-trumps-accomplishments-their-due/
https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/12/trump-accomplishments-speak-themselves-despite-media-attacks/

 

[adk highlander]

I'll keep this simple for ya,

If you want a bit more detail, https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/the-historic-results-of-president-donald-j-trumps-first-two-years-in-office/

You know the Whitehouse has really taken to the love of the Russian way of propaganda. Reads like Pravda. Historic Ha! The only thing historic is his true lack of intelligence. Oh, that's right he is a stable genius.

And what is it with the Hilary fixation. You should try and let it go.

 

[highfigh]

They fly free


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Who flies free?

 

[markw]

 

[GO-NAD!]

Hard to say, but Canada sure looks a lot like America. Do you still have rebadged American cars up there?

Yes, the demographics are pretty similar. Not sure if there's a point being made here. Same with the cars...

For us, it's the one that's here now. We've got a Constitution that defines us although the left is trying to chip away at it.

And how are they doing that. Serious question.

And, thanks for the typo correction.

 

[markw]

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/11/americas-constitution-destroyed-by-leftist-agenda/

 

[adk highlander]

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/11/americas-constitution-destroyed-by-leftist-agenda/

Thanks for the great laugh with that article. I would love for snopes or one of the sites that have time to prove how inaccurate most of that article is. You really should get out more and see that the world should be about acceptance and change for the greater good and not to try and hold onto some "ideal" of the past that repressed and made it impossible for a large part of our society to be successful.

 

[Trell]

I can see y'alls hatred of Trump will over-ride any and all arguments to defend him so I'll just leave this here but, please note, his two biggest detractors in this thread are not From America. One is from Canada and the other is from Germany, [added bold, italics] both of which have their own problems with crappy leaders.

There are several recent posts, that you have not answered, as to why some behaviour of Trump is, by you, deemed good while for others it is bad. Please answer.

That said, I sort of fail to get the point why this (edit: nationality, that is) should be so obnoxious as the members of AH comes from all over the world, unless free speech is not for all? Besides, how do you know where I come from? All I've said is that I'm living in EU, and I think I've been pretty clear with that in multiple posts.

With the liberal leaders [my bold] of these countries seem to be doing their best to weaken and or destroy their cultural identity (assuming Canada actually has one),I think they might be jealous that our president, while brash and arrogant, is doing all he can to stem the liberal tide trying to drag this country to the dark side. And, after eight years of obama dividing us, that's no small task.

So you call the German Chancellor Angela Merkel, the leader of the conservative Christian Democratic Union of Germany a liberal?

 

[adk highlander]

Here are a couple for you:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/07/opinion/trump-july-4.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-14th-amendment-749396/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.esquire.com/news-politics/amp27373177/donald-trump-tweet-2-years-term-jerry-falwell/

 

[markw]

OK boys, you don't like Trump and I'll never be able to change that. TDS does strange things to peoples heads.

I can handle that but, I'm done playing with you for now.

Fee free to continue playing with yourselves or each other.

 

[highfigh]

Does Canada have a crappy leader? Hmmm, in some respects, yes he is. I would still take him over Mr. Trump.
So, what's the correct "cultural identity" for our countries?

I guess you may have something in common with the Indigenous peoples of North and South America - I'm quite sure they wish the cultural identity of the continents hadn't been transformed either. So, who are we - descendants of European immigrants - to decide what "cultures" are acceptable in our respective countries?

And, if Obama divided you, do you think Trump is going to unite you? Call me a sceptic on that.

Some light reading:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/06/ahmari-french-orban/591697/

Why do you look at this as the US not wanting people because they're from Latin American countries? This isn't about ethnicity, it's about people following the effing immigration laws!

Never let a crisis go to waste, right? Use it to your best advantage and twist it into something it's not. FYI- Mexico's immigration laws are more strict than what the US is trying to enforce, but the liberals won't let us.

Deny it all you want, many illegals ARE members of gangs, militias and cartels. Drugs are coming over the US border from all sides and the Heroin is killing people of all generations. Counterfeit US currency is being made by the billions of dollars and it's strengthening people who should be liquidated-

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/31/counterfeiting-peruvian-gang-fabricating-fake-100-bills

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/magazine/how-a-mexican-drug-cartel-makes-its-billions.html

Prove me wrong.