Is the Emotiva UPA-7 a good amp to purchase?

[Danzilla31]

I always enjoy posts like yours. It is great to hear someone's excitement and thrill with new gear.
However, I do agree that the reality is there is probably little or no actual difference (once you level match).
A good salesman can let you hear a system then talk up something like $300 power cable and if you don't know enough about electricity and they do a good enough job of sharing their "excitement" of what a good product it is and what you are going to hear, it is easy for us people to hear exactly what he said we would.

The thing is our perceptions are so easily altered that you are liable to experience a wide array despite the actual sound being the same.

Some of my favorite examples/analogies are:
When I was a kid and got PF Flyers (brand/style of tennis shoes if you are young),I really could run faster and jump higher, just like the commercials said I would.
I have caught myself believing that cleaning the dust out of my old vintage amp made it sound better (it wasn't that bad). I realized that didn't really make sense, but the fact that I had invested ~45 minutes caring for my amp and felt good about it, predispositioned me to appreciate the sound.
A song sounds better if I have been wanting/anticipating hearing it on my way home.
My system almost always sounds better first thing in the morning (when I have a "fresh" set of ears)!
Assuming they kiss the same, kissing an attractive (however you want to define attractive) woman is more enjoyable than an unattractive woman. This is probably the most obvious example of how easily swayed our perceptions our!
Is it unreasonable to expect that sexy $5000 Macintosh amp with the big blue meters to sound better than our meager AVR (even if it does not)?

There's no shame to my game. Kissing any woman attractive or unattractive is good enough for me. That was until 2 beautiful gorgeous sexy PB 4000's came into my life! Now I don't even need women. Because guess what? THEY HAVE PORTS!!!!

 

[snakeeyes]

There's no shame to my game. Kissing any woman attractive or unattractive is good enough for me. That was until 2 beautiful gorgeous sexy PB 4000's came into my life! Now I don't even need women. Because guess what? THEY HAVE PORTS!!!!

Your speakers are in constant danger.... LOL When do you get your Atmos speakers?

 

[Danzilla31]

On a serious note I do think that even tho perception bias played a part. There is no denying that having the amp improved the sound. I'm way to OCD not to have noticed the changes. And although some of it was due to gain and level matching issues. I do think that to balance it out. Some of the points lovinthehd pointed out where valid improved spls etc etc. From what you guys have taught me I can better appreciate the real improvements it created by properly calibrating my gear together. And my final lesson I learned from doing this is my biggest reason I'm now going with amps is not for some miracle improvements of sound. Really it will be to get plenty of unrestricted power that can drive any load. And also to preserve the life of my av recievers because it takes some of the stress off of them

 

[Danzilla31]

Your speakers are in constant danger.... LOL When do you get your Atmos speakers?

You have no idea bro lol. They're shipping right now! Have you installed yours?!

 

[snakeeyes]

On a serious note I do think that even tho perception bias played a part. There is no denying that having the amp improved the sound. I'm way to OCD not to have noticed the changes. And although some of it was due to gain and level matching issues. I do think that to balance it out. Some of the points lovinthehd pointed out where valid improved spls etc etc. From what you guys have taught me I can better appreciate the real improvements it created by properly calibrating my gear together. And my final lesson I learned from doing this is my biggest reason I'm now going with amps is not for some miracle improvements of sound. Really it will be to get plenty of unrestricted power that can drive any load. And also to preserve the life of my av recievers because it takes some of the stress off of them

You might even produce a gain simply by using the AVR only to run the front 3 towers and unhooking the surrounds but I’m thinking the center tower would be the main benefactor. So much goes to the center actually. The regulars here would probably want to see such an experiment graphed on REW or verified in a blind test though. I for one, love the enthusiasm! It’s awesome!

 

[snakeeyes]

You have no idea bro lol. They're shipping right now! Have you installed yours?!

Mine are still in the box. I have to clear a path through the garage and up across the attic but shouldn’t be too bad. Looking forward to Atmos and DTSX.

 

[PENG]

Gotcha I'll for sure pick one up then bug you on how to use it! Or just pay PENG to teach me like Drunkpenguin does

William is right, if you like the way it sounds now, it is much quicker and better to simply balance the channels manually with the help of a good sound pressure level meter. You probably need to add 2 to 3 dB to the channels powered by the 809, including the subwoofer channel.

 

[PENG]

I always enjoy posts like yours. It is great to hear someone's excitement and thrill with new gear.
However, I do agree that the reality is there is probably little or no actual difference (once you level match).
A good salesman can let you hear a system then talk up something like $300 power cable and if you don't know enough about electricity and they do a good enough job of sharing their "excitement" of what a good product it is and what you are going to hear, it is easy for us people to hear exactly what he said we would.

The thing is our perceptions are so easily altered that you are liable to experience a wide array despite the actual sound being the same.

Some of my favorite examples/analogies are:
When I was a kid and got PF Flyers (brand/style of tennis shoes if you are young),I really could run faster and jump higher, just like the commercials said I would.
I have caught myself believing that cleaning the dust out of my old vintage amp made it sound better (it wasn't that bad). I realized that didn't really make sense, but the fact that I had invested ~45 minutes caring for my amp and felt good about it, predispositioned me to appreciate the sound.
A song sounds better if I have been wanting/anticipating hearing it on my way home.
My system almost always sounds better first thing in the morning (when I have a "fresh" set of ears)!
Assuming they kiss the same, kissing an attractive (however you want to define attractive) woman is more enjoyable than an unattractive woman. This is probably the most obvious example of how easily swayed our perceptions our!
Is it unreasonable to expect that sexy $5000 Macintosh amp with the big blue meters to sound better than our meager AVR (even if it does not)?

I was wondering at first when he mentioned moderate level, then he confessedhe had the volume at 82/reference level. In that case his AVR would have been running at or close to its limit, so the 1 to 2 dB extra head room could make some audible improvements even after he level matched all channels. Until then, the differences are likely due to the 3 dB higher level from the front 3 channels, making things sound clearer.

 

[Danzilla31]

William is right, if you like the way it sounds now, it is much quicker and better to simply balance the channels manually with the help of a good sound pressure level meter. You probably need to add 2 to 3 dB to the channels powered by the 809, including the subwoofer channel.

I'm gonna go the route your suggesting now because I really felt audyssey nailed it with where it set everything that made the biggest improvement the second was when you guys helped me set my crossovers right for my surrounds. And the third was the amp. So I'll pick up a spl meter this weekend after I'm off but if you don't mind I'll need to post back here to get some good tips on how to use it what I should be trying to accomplish etc. I'll do as much research as I can but still being new any helpful info so I don't cluck it up will be appreciated.

 

[Danzilla31]

I was wondering at first when he mentioned moderate level, then he confessedhe had the volume at 82/reference level. In that case his AVR would have been running at or close to its limit, so the 1 to 2 dB extra head room could make some audible improvements even after he level matched all channels. Until then, the differences are likely due to the 3 dB higher level from the front 3 channels, making things sound clearer.

Yeah I never wanted to run it that high but man it was really hard to get the sound right otherwise anything really didn't sound well to be honest. Not because of LOUD. I wasn't looking for loud it just sounded off too thin too dull. I think the rooms just too Damn big hence the need for more power

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd just rerun Audyssey rather than go shopping but that's me. Or even just use a phone spl meter app. I'd also vote for something long term more useful than an spl meter, like a usb measurement mic you can use with REW and a laptop....

You basically want to level match the speakers at your main listening position using the avr test tones, normally test tones are at 75dB.

 

[Danzilla31]

You might even produce a gain simply by using the AVR only to run the front 3 towers and unhooking the surrounds but I’m thinking the center tower would be the main benefactor. So much goes to the center actually. The regulars here would probably want to see such an experiment graphed on REW or verified in a blind test though. I for one, love the enthusiasm! It’s awesome!

Thanks man I know I get all gushy but I really love this stuff and I really enjoy the camaraderie of this forum

 

[Danzilla31]

I'd just rerun Audyssey rather than go shopping but that's me. Or even just use a phone spl meter app. I'd also vote for something long term more useful than an spl meter, like a usb measurement mic you can use with REW and a laptop....

You basically want to level match the speakers at your main listening position using the avr test tones, normally test tones are at 75dB.

Thanks do you have a recommendation for a good phone app meter app one that you feel is very good at accuracy? It seems like some of these apps can vary greatly in performance some more accurate then others from what I'm researching

 

[Danzilla31]

I'd just rerun Audyssey rather than go shopping but that's me. Or even just use a phone spl meter app. I'd also vote for something long term more useful than an spl meter, like a usb measurement mic you can use with REW and a laptop....

You basically want to level match the speakers at your main listening position using the avr test tones, normally test tones are at 75dB.

The USB and REW etc I'm down for but let's get the basics down for me first then I'll take bigger steps

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks do you have a recommendation for a good phone app meter app one that you feel is very good at accuracy? It seems like some of these apps can vary greatly in performance some more accurate then others from what I'm researching

I at one point used a couple android apps on a Galaxy S4 and the ones I compared, reasonably accurate (compared with my measurement mic/software, altho compared somewhat informally) but I don't have that phone now (broke it). I think I may have gotten a reco on a forum for one of the apps, and just tried picking out one or two others....been a few years and I don't remember names, they all kinda sound alike. Your phone's mic is the bigger worry than the software I'd think. I wouldn't do sub measurements with one but should be fine for pink noise.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

There's no shame to my game. Kissing any woman attractive or unattractive is good enough for me. That was until 2 beautiful gorgeous sexy PB 4000's came into my life! Now I don't even need women. Because guess what? THEY HAVE PORTS!!!!

Hes losin it!

Maybe this will help get you back on track...

Spoiler

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I'm gonna go the route your suggesting now because I really felt audyssey nailed it with where it set everything that made the biggest improvement the second was when you guys helped me set my crossovers right for my surrounds. And the third was the amp. So I'll pick up a spl meter this weekend after I'm off but if you don't mind I'll need to post back here to get some good tips on how to use it what I should be trying to accomplish etc. I'll do as much research as I can but still being new any helpful info so I don't cluck it up will be appreciated.

Pretty simple. Situate the mic so it’s exactly where your ears are when seated in the LP. Set the meter to C-weighting, slow response. Manually play the receivers test tones for each speaker and set them form75db, adding 2-5db to taste for the subs. Done!

Edit: I use a rat shack Digital spl meter on a camera tripod. It has a threaded insert to make mounting easy and the stand has a ball swivel to easily position the meter.

 

[PENG]

You might even produce a gain simply by using the AVR only to run the front 3 towers and unhooking the surrounds but I’m thinking the center tower would be the main benefactor. So much goes to the center actually. The regulars here would probably want to see such an experiment graphed on REW or verified in a blind test though. I for one, love the enthusiasm! It’s awesome!

The REW graphs posted here before are good and valid. They showed even the lowly AVR-X3400H offered no discernible difference compared to my separates. The graphs simply overlapped on top of each other using 1/24 or even 1/48 smoothing. Any audible differences offered by power amps are really all due to the "power" or more accurately, unrestricted current flow to the speakers regardless of the impedance change, and of course, distortions. Other issues like damping factors, slew rates, IMD are long gone from the days of tubes and old SS designs.

 

[PENG]

I'd just rerun Audyssey rather than go shopping but that's me. Or even just use a phone spl meter app. I'd also vote for something long term more useful than an spl meter, like a usb measurement mic you can use with REW and a laptop....

You basically want to level match the speakers at your main listening position using the avr test tones, normally test tones are at 75dB.

Agreed, if he has a meter, it takes less than two minutes, otherwise may as well re-run Audyssey. My only concern is that if he likes it so much now, it may be better to leave it alone. As William alluded to, changing the level won't affect the EQ part, re-running Audyssey might due to even a slight difference in the mic positions.

 

[PENG]

Thanks do you have a recommendation for a good phone app meter app one that you feel is very good at accuracy? It seems like some of these apps can vary greatly in performance some more accurate then others from what I'm researching

Phone app should work if you can find one that has the "C" weighting and the slow option. Accurate or not won't matter too much as you are simply try to match.. It does need to be within 1 dB, 0.5 dB is of course better.

Or simply dial the subwoofer and surround channels up by 3 dB and see if you still like it. From you original review post, it is possible that you may actually prefer the effects of the sub being a few dB lower than the LCR.

In my experience, Audyssey, even XT32 is not able to integrate bass capable towers such as yours with subwoofers. It gets you in the ball park, but you need to experiment different crossover points to find one that integrates the best, that is, with minimum dips and bumps. For the prime towers, I would start with 80 Hz, and then up, but not down, to prevent them from messing with the sub(s).