Integra Research RDC-7.1

steve · Feb 17, 2004

Pepar,

Thanks for understanding.  I'm not concerned about how many people post here as this forum thread will certainly not sink.  

I'm truly only concerned about having just this thread be a place for current RDC-7 owners to vocalize their thoughts about the specific upgrade/update issue.  

If you guys want to start another forum thread to continue the other discussions, please feel free to do so as I'm not trying to stop that in any way.  I'm sorry if I came off as if I was coming down on you as that's truly not my intent.  

I am just comitted, {or should be comitted ; ) } to making this specific thread a place for current RDC-7 owners like yourself, to voice their thoughts.  

As for debates, I have no problem with them on a new thread in our forum.  They are easy to create.

If you guys want, I can even create another thread for venting.  But please understand the purpose of this specific thread, that's all I ask.  I like having you on our site Pepar.  You offer valuable input.  

Thanks guys.

pepar · Feb 17, 2004

stevied4him : I'm truly only concerned about having just this thread be a place for current RDC-7 owners to vocalize their thoughts about the specific upgrade/update issue.

If you guys want, I can even create another thread for venting. But please understand the purpose of this specific thread, that's all I ask.

I'm glad to see the new posters, Che and Brett, express their opinions In fact, Brett's suggestion is WAY cool. And probably the most practical one I've heard. The S/N proves RDC-7 ownership, the discount simultaneously allows money saved by the upgrader and doesn't "cost" IR anything, the owner gets some extra cash to offset purchase AND a non-bleeding-edge HT buff gets an awesome piece of gear. dang I like that idea! Seems win-win-win to me.

I'm tired of the tussle with Raz and TM, as I'm sure they're tired. I'm even mostly on their side. I resign.

dang?  I get "dang" for amn-de?

steve · Feb 18, 2004

Brett,

I could see this as being a logistics issue.  For example, if IR actually did this, I can see forum threads lighting up with people posting serial numbers, or even selling serial numbers for that matter.  

Besides, that would leave the owner with two units and will cost IR significant money for selling the $4,500 unit for $2,000 less.  It's a good thought, but I don't see how it will work.  Too many issues with serial numbers only.

pepar · Feb 18, 2004

stevied4him : Brett,

I could see this as being a logistics issue. For example, if IR actually did this, I can see forum threads lighting up with people posting serial numbers, or even selling serial numbers for that matter.

Besides, that would leave the owner with two units and will cost IR significant money for selling the $4,500 unit for $2,000 less. It's a good thought, but I don't see how it will work. Too many issues with serial numbers only.

Steve,

You raise some good points. The bottom line is that any trade-in program will "cost" IR money. The thinking of those asking for a trade is that IR is giving up some current profit in exchange for increased future sales as those new owners purchase additional modules. Additionally, IR will transmute present bad will into good will. At the top end, word of mouth, good or bad, is a powerful marketing mechanism, right Razvanel? anthonymoody?

The issue of a black market(?) in serial numbers is an interesting one. Certainly an owner would not post his number anywhere, would he? As the number could only get one RDC-7.1, he would be forfeiting his right to do the deal himself. Could you expand on what you see as problems with Brett's suggestion?

Razvanel · Feb 18, 2004

"that would leave the owner with two units"

So what, what would IR do with the RDC-7's?

"and will cost IR significant money for selling the $4,500 unit for $2,000 less.""

Isn't the dealer cost around $2000 for a base unit ? IR wouldn't lose any money by selling the RDC-7.1 for $2500 directly to the customer.

This worked for Aragon, why wouldn't it work for IR?

Steve, it's clear that the current owners of the RDC-7 would like IR to offer a trade-in program. We've even given IR a list of other manufacturers who did it and how they did it. Isn't it time for IR to acknowledge us and tell us what their intentions are? Ignoring us isn't good customer service, is it? I'm sure that you have contacts at IR and could get some info on this.

R

pepar · Feb 18, 2004

Razvanel : see my post

"that would leave the owner with two units"

So what, what would IR do with the RDC-7's?

PRECISELY!

"and will cost IR significant money for selling the $4,500 unit for $2,000 less.""

Isn't the dealer cost around $2000 for a base unit ? IR wouldn't lose any money by selling the RDC-7.1 for $2500 directly to the customer.

It wouldn't have to to be $2500, but the key to making it work is to cut out the middleman and IR to handle the transaction directly. If the dealers object, IR could handle it through them and pay them for their time. That way the dealer gets a high-end customer into their store and can possibly sell them something else at their normal margin.

And the dealers may even be able to play matchmaker for the upgrader's RDC-7.

pepar · Feb 18, 2004

I am told that there's been one meeting on "what is going to happen. Some good progress has been made, but nothing that [they] will make a statement on yet."

Guest · Feb 18, 2004

I am holding on to me RDC7 until Integra makes an announcement.  It really does almost everything I need it to other than Component Video Up Conversion.  I would hate to sell now for a loss and have to pay near retail for a new one. Lets keep our fingers crossed, but not hold our breath

Razvanel · Feb 18, 2004

"I am told that there's been one meeting on "what is going to happen. Some good progress has been made, but nothing that [they] will make a statement on yet."

Thanks pepar. How about you Steve? Any news from your IR contacts?

R

Guest · Feb 18, 2004

The S/N black market is real.  Handspring offered upgrades to the Treo 270/300 based on S/N's from the Treo 180 and/or the Visor Phone Module.  You got $100 off the new unit by providing a S/N.  The S/N's were going on eBay for upwards of $80 if I recall correctly.  My cousin gave me hers for free

TM

pepar · Feb 18, 2004

Guest : The S/N black market is real. Handspring offered upgrades to the Treo 270/300 based on S/N's from the Treo 180 and/or the Visor Phone Module. You got $100 off the new unit by providing a S/N. The S/N's were going on eBay for upwards of $80 if I recall correctly. My cousin gave me hers for free

TM

Well, how much of a problem could it be?  I mean, it's not like they can be counterfeited.

IR could require verification by cross-referencing existing registration records.  That might stop it.  Or they could require that the units be returned to them for verification and then sent back to the owner who can then complete the upgrade.  Anyway, I don't like the idea of people dealing in contraband numbers.

steve · Feb 18, 2004

We have not heard anything from IR, nor do we expect to until they are ready to release their plans.  

As for the comments about dealer cost and selling it directly to those doing upgrades, this does make sense.  But again I need to play counter point.  I wonder if this may present a problem with dealers as it can potentially take away some of their business.  IR doesn't exactly have a huge dealer base like some of the bigger names, or even Onkyo themselves.  So they probably have to walk a fine line between satisfying owners and dealers as both are how they sell their products.

Just another thought.  Please continue to express your views.

Guest · Feb 18, 2004

Thanks for the opportunity to state our thoughts on this issue.

I would like to hear about what Lexicon has done in the past on their trade-ins. To me, right or wrong, that is the competition for the RDC 7. I get the feeling that Lexicon has a very loyal following for good reason and if I feel I will end up too short on this upgrade, I know where I will feel compelled to go.

Besides taking care of DVD A and SACD requirements, and whatever other latest connectivity is available elsewhere, I would like to see better user interface by OSD in any video mode and/or possibly direct access to all audio modes.

ep

Razvanel · Feb 19, 2004

Rick,

"Besides taking care of DVD A and SACD requirements"

The RDC-7's DAC's can't handle DSD natively. To play SACD's on the RDC-7 via firewire the RDC-7 would have to convert DSD to PCM. That to me is unacceptable as I'm interested in SACD and not DVD-A. The RDC-7's inability to handle DSD natively is of course another reason why IR should offer a trade-in program (the RDC-7.1's DAC's will handle DSD natively).

R

pepar · Feb 19, 2004

Razvanel : The RDC-7's DAC's can't handle DSD natively. To play SACD's on the RDC-7 via firewire the RDC-7 would have to convert DSD to PCM. That to me is unacceptable as I'm interested in SACD and not DVD-A.
R

From what I've seen, there is a lot more content on DVD-A.  Is your experience otherwise?

Razvanel · Feb 19, 2004

"From what I've seen, there is a lot more content on DVD-A.  Is your experience otherwise?"

There's a lot more content on SACD.

I have 9 or 10 SACD's and only 1 DVD-A. For more on SACD, DVD-A, DSD, and PCM go to www.audioasylum.com.

R

pepar · Feb 19, 2004

Razvanel : "From what I've seen, there is a lot more content on DVD-A. Is your experience otherwise?"

There's a lot more content on SACD.

I have 9 or 10 SACD's and only 1 DVD-A. For more on SACD, DVD-A, DSD, and PCM go to www.audioasylum.com.

R

I'm familiar with the technologies and each have their supporters.  I'm just having a dickens of a time finding SACD's.  I buy DVD's online at Deep Discount DVD and they have quite a selection of DVD-A's.  I usually buy my CD's at BMG Music, but I can only find a few SACD's there.  I read a fair amount of SACD reviews in the A/V rags, so I know they're out there.  Where do you buy them?

Razvanel · Feb 19, 2004

pepar, go to www.audioasylum.com and check out the SACD section, you'll find all the info you need there.

I'm into European music, almost all my SACD's are European. I buy them from www.amazon.de

The only DVD-A I have is Blue Man Group's Audio, amazing 5.1 mix.

As for SACD, a must have is Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon.

R

gene · Feb 19, 2004

Just a few points of clarity regarding SACD vs DVD-A.
1) Most SACD discs are PCM remastered recordings
2) Any Receiver/Processor that will soon be shipping that can decode SACD will still have to convert DSD to PCM to handle bass management and digitial delay compenstation.

At this point, it may still be better for the player to handle SACD and use the 6CH analog outputs to your processor.  This is something we will be watching closely.

BTW, IMO PCM is a better, more accessable format.  However, I still prefer SACD over DVD-A simply for two reasons:
1) Better software
2) Better quality control in remastering and mixing

Some of my best sounding recordings are SACD, and some of my worst are DVD-A.  It is not the technology that makes or breaks this, its the implementation at the recording studio.

pepar · Feb 19, 2004

gene : Just a few points of clarity regarding SACD vs DVD-A.
1) Most SACD discs are PCM remastered recordings
2) Any Receiver/Processor that will soon be shipping that can decode SACD will still have to convert DSD to PCM to handle bass management and digitial delay compenstation.

At this point, it may still be better for the player to handle SACD and use the 6CH analog outputs to your processor. This is something we will be watching closely.

BTW, IMO PCM is a better, more accessable format. However, I still prefer SACD over DVD-A simply for two reasons:
1) Better software
2) Better quality control in remastering and mixing

Some of my best sounding recordings are SACD, and some of my worst are DVD-A. It is not the technology that makes or breaks this, its the implementation at the recording studio.

Wow, thanks for the insight!

I am not surprised about most SACD's being from PCM sources; most of the first CD's were from the analog masters and most DVD's (movies) were the same masters used for LD's.  Shovelware, I think they call it.

Integra Research RDC-7.1

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