Integra Research RDC-7.1

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Razvanel

Enthusiast
<font color='#000000'>Anthony,

&quot;I said that if a trade-in were offered, not only would I trade-in my 7 toward a 7.1, but I would purchase an *additional* 7.1 for a separate home theater I have&quot;

Wow, Integra Research would be crazy to lose a customer like you!

R</font>
 
pepar

pepar

Junior Audioholic
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Razvanel : <font color='#000000'>Well, I'm registered. The truth is that it is so easy to post here without going through the registration process that many people prefer to do just that.

R</font>
<font color='#000000'>True. &nbsp;Maybe our hosts will make it necessary to register, but allow it to be done on the fly so as not to bog down first-time posters with process.

</font>
 
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pepar

pepar

Junior Audioholic
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Guest : <font color='#000000'>Pepar,

I . . find it sad that you believe &quot;Expressing our concern to them is not only all we need to do, it is the only thing we can do&quot;.  Sad.

TM</font>
<font color='#000000'>Oh my, please don't be sad! &nbsp;


I'm wicha on this right up to the point where our posts get too harsh or (IMO, unrealistically) threaten legal action. &nbsp;Ya don't win friends and influence people with those tactics. &nbsp;Ours is not a difference in goals, but merely on how to get there.</font>
 
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R

Razvanel

Enthusiast
<font color='#000000'>&quot;Ours is not a difference in goals, but merely on how to get there&quot;

All right, good to know that.

Let us note that, so far, the overwhelming majority of RDC-7 owners who have posted here and on other forums expect Integra Research to offer a trade-in program and they, the owners, are willing to pay for that a reasonable amount of money.

R</font>
 
pepar

pepar

Junior Audioholic
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Razvanel : <font color='#000000'>Let us note that, so far, the overwhelming majority of RDC-7 owners who have posted here and on other forums expect Integra Research to offer a trade-in program and they, the owners, are willing to pay for that a reasonable amount of money.

R</font>
<font color='#000000'>And that is, to borrow a buzz phrase from recent current events, a &quot;fair and balanced&quot; position.</font>
 
R

Razvanel

Enthusiast
<font color='#000000'>FYI: my RDC-7 is for sale. See the classifieds section of this forum.

R</font>
 
7

7ryder

Audiophyte
<font color='#000000'>I originally made my opinion known to Steve in January on the Audioholics CES forums, so you don't have to go searching, I will add it below this post.  

Like the rest of the folks here, in addition to its sound quality, a big part of my decision to purchase the RDC-7 was because of IR's claim of being future-proof.  Now 1 1/2 years later, I find that the future is here and my upgradable pre-amp that has never been upgraded will not be upgradable.  

I don't have experience with Krell's or Lexicon's upgrade policies, but IR would be wise to look into what their competitors offer if they want to play in their league.  At this point, I am happy with my RDC-7, but the video switching in the new model is very tempting since I have to make some sort of decision on how to hook up my Denon DVD-5900's DVI to my Panasonic plasma; an internal switcher in my pre-amp would be ideal.

I think that the trade-in ideas presented here make a lot of sense...give us a discount to keep us &quot;whole&quot; on the new unit and then charge us retail for extra options.  

And IR, don't take this as a threat, but if you choose not to  offer a competitive trade-in program on your &quot;future-proof&quot; RDC-7, then when I do make a decision to upgrade, the fact is Krell or Lexicon will likely get my business since they stand behind their claims and take care of their customers.

Chris


Originally posted: January 15, 2004
I've owned my RDC-7 for about 1.5 years and got it shortly after the THX Ultra 2 and DTS 96/24 improvements were introduced, so mine has never been upgraded.  I have been extremely pleased with its performance, but one of the major reasons I bought it was for the claims that the unit is upgradable.

I carefully looked into IR's claims of &quot;upgradability&quot; since I got burned by other manufacturers upgradibility claims (B&amp;K's comes to mind) in the past.  In the course of my research, I checked out the website (which hasn't changed a bit in the last 1.5 years!) and I saw that there were at least two upgrades already offered for owners of the RDC-7 so I bought one.  

I have to admit that I am getting that feeling of being burned again...

Yeah, stevied4him, I know what all the other manufacturers do, but I felt that IR was different.  I agree with you that this unit is among the greats, but the upgradability that IR touted was important in my decision to spend $4K on this pre-amp and I am sure that many other owners feel the same way.  I also realize the the upgrades that they talk about in their press releases were intially software upgrades, but their last upgrade press release states things like:

&quot;04/30/02 - When Integra Research first introduced its RDC-7 audio-video preamp-processor two years ago, it featured a revolutionary &quot;&quot;future-proof&quot;&quot; upgradeable architecture that protected consumers from having their processor rendered obsolete each time a new home theater processing technology was introduced.&quot; and &quot;This gives our customers and installers the ability to keep pace with state of the art technology, without having to buy a new preamp-processor every six months.&quot;  see the whole release here: http://www.integraresearch.com/press.cfm?id=59

IR set the bar on upgrades in the industry and now I feel let down by them.  Then to make it even more irritating, the &quot;new&quot; model looks exactly like the old model and it isn't even a new model designation.  Using software speak, the 7.1 designation indicates an upgrade, not a new version.

Yes, IR is in the business to make money, but if you are going to claim that a model is upgradable, it seems reasonable to me that if it looks like an RDC-7 and just adds a .1 to the model number, it is still the current model.  Next time, make a clean break and bring out a new model, then they won't confuse the issue.

In the meantime, since this is just a more extensive upgrade, if they can't or won't upgrade the models out in the field, they should seriously consider a trade-in policy for current owners since they obviously can re-use the case!</font>
 
pepar

pepar

Junior Audioholic
<font color='#000000'>The more people that step forward with this position, the more amazed I am.

Did anybody really think that they would NEVER need to buy another pre/pro? &nbsp;If the reply is &quot;no, I didn't think that I'd NEVER need to buy another one, but I thought I'd get more than 1-2-3 years out or it&quot; then you had already defined &quot;future-proof&quot; as something less than, well . . future-proof. &nbsp;If anyone says they DID think this would be the last pre/pro that they EVER had to buy, then I have some land in Florida I'd like to sell you.

First of all, &quot;future-proof&quot; is not in any dictionary that I can find, so that leaves it open to interpretation. &nbsp;Interpret wisely. &nbsp; Secondly, the advertising said it wouldn't be obsoleted &quot;each time&quot; a new surround format was introduced. &nbsp;By my estimation, it wasn't obsoleted, and it has not been obsoleted. &nbsp;And there've been a few formats introduced since it's debut. &nbsp;But still, if it was obsoleted after three format introductions, then it met the advertising claim of not being obsoleted &quot;each time&quot; - it made it through three.</font>
 
R

Razvanel

Enthusiast
<font color='#000000'>&quot;The more people that step forward with this position, the more amazed I am.&quot;

Pepar, you also made the statements: &quot;I completely understand their outrage&quot; when referring to us and also &quot;Ours is not a difference in goals, but merely on how to get there&quot;.

I'm confused. I have no idea what you want pepar. Do you yourself know what you want?

Now, everybody - except maybe you - here and on other forums expects Integra Research to offer a fair trade-in program. That's what WE want. It's time for Integra Research to let us know if they will offer a fair trade-in program or not.

R</font>
 
pepar

pepar

Junior Audioholic
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Razvanel : &quot;The more people that step forward with this position, the more amazed I am.&quot;

Pepar, you also made the statements: &quot;I completely understand their outrage&quot; when referring to us and also &quot;Ours is not a difference in goals, but merely on how to get there&quot;.

I'm confused. I have no idea what you want pepar. Do you yourself know what you want?

Now, everybody - except maybe you - here and on other forums expects Integra Research to offer a fair trade-in program. That's what WE want. It's time for Integra Research to let us know if they will offer a fair trade-in program or not.

R
Fair question.

I, personally, would like to see more upgrades; formats and the very concretely promised IEEE1394.  This much is grounded in specific, clear (and repeated) verbiage.  

I see nowhere a promise from IR for a trade-in program.  Yet that is what some are demanding.  While I &quot;understand&quot; that demand, I see no logical justification for it being &quot;expected.&quot;  Therefore, I see it as an unreasonable demand.

They advertised &quot;future-proof&quot;-ness - whatever that is - with respect to surround formats.  Now I see people clamoring for new interfaces (DVI, HDMI); they did not advertise that.  IMO, that is an unreasonable, as well as unjustified, demand.

One can purchase an active 2x1 DVI switch for $200 and a 4x1 for $350.  If they had room (and they don't), how much would IR charge for &quot;done right&quot; DVI switching?  I seriously doubt that it would be less than several hundred dollars.  HDMI switches?  Well, they're not available yet anyway, so who knows?

And why would someone whose RDC-7 is for sale care about a trade-in offer?  And how logical is it to bail out before even knowing what they'll offer?

Sometimes I like to play the devil's advocate.</font>
 
R

Razvanel

Enthusiast
<font color='#000000'>&quot;Now I see people clamoring for new interfaces (DVI, HDMI); they did not advertise that. &nbsp;IMO, that is an unreasonable, as well as unjustified, demand&quot;

And yet 2 days ago you yourself stated that, quote, &quot;I would like to see additional surround formats added as well as switching facilities for the newer interface standards, HDMI (or DVI) being the main one.&quot;

I'm perplexed.

&quot;And why would someone whose RDC-7 is for sale care about a trade-in offer&quot;

Because I care about the other RDC-7 owners. The RDC-7 owners are fully justified to expect a trade-in program. That's precisely why I will continue supporting them.

R</font>
 
pepar

pepar

Junior Audioholic
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Razvanel : &quot;Now I see people clamoring for new interfaces (DVI, HDMI); they did not advertise that.  IMO, that is an unreasonable, as well as unjustified, demand&quot;

And yet 2 days ago you yourself stated that, quote, &quot;I would like to see additional surround formats added as well as switching facilities for the newer interface standards, HDMI (or DVI) being the main one.&quot;

I'm perplexed.

&quot;And why would someone whose RDC-7 is for sale care about a trade-in offer&quot;

Because I care about the other RDC-7 owners. The RDC-7 owners are fully justified to expect a trade-in program. That's precisely why I will continue supporting them.

R
Words have meaning; I spend a fair amount of time on selecting the correct ones to most precisely express my thoughts.  Don't read anything into my meaning other than what I say.

&quot;I would like to see . .(it).&quot; it is nowhere near &quot;I expect . . (it).&quot;  (In truth, I don't think it's possible without major and cost-prohibitive sheet metal modifications. &nbsp;Do you see room on yours?)

I also said I would like to see a trade-in program offered to &quot;owners of the flagship who would like to remain loyal to IR.&quot;  I prefaced this with saying I wasn't personally interested in trading; I said it because I think it would be a good thing for them to do, not because they promised it.

You still haven't said why you think RDC-7 owners are &quot;fully justified&quot; in expecting a trade-in program when IR never said there'd be one.  On what do you base this claim?</font>
 
G

Guest

Guest
<font color='#000000'>&quot;&quot;future-proof&quot; is not in any dictionary that I can find, so that leaves it open to interpretation. &nbsp;Interpret wisely.&quot;


This is a preposterous statement. &nbsp;Most two word combinations are not in the dictionary. &nbsp;Further, the definition of each word makes quite clear what the combination means. &nbsp;Not subject to interpretation, nor limited in any way unless specified.

What *is* subject to interpretation is the language in the various press releases and marketing materials surrounding the RDC7. &nbsp;My position, which I've said before, is that I believe the language surrounding (and hemming in) the upgradeability of the unit was added/modified at some point after the initial release. &nbsp;As I've also said before, I cannot prove this. &nbsp;However, that is my belief.

Nonetheless, my position is clear. &nbsp;I will vote with my feet and $ depending on which way IR goes. &nbsp;As for legal action, I will happily participate in any action taken by another but will not attempt to spearhead anything myself.

TM</font>
 
R

Razvanel

Enthusiast
<font color='#000000'>&quot;You still haven't said why you think RDC-7 owners are &quot;fully justified&quot; in expecting a trade-in program when IR never said there'd be one. &nbsp;On what do you base this claim?&quot;

On the fact that the RDC-7 was advertised as being future-proof. It's not. It's a dead-end product. That's deceptive advertising. Ergo, RDC-7 owners are fully justified in expecting a trade-in program.

R</font>
 
pepar

pepar

Junior Audioholic
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Guest : &quot;&quot;future-proof&quot; is not in any dictionary that I can find, so that leaves it open to interpretation.  Interpret wisely.&quot;


This is a preposterous statement.  Most two word combinations are not in the dictionary.  Further, the definition of each word makes quite clear what the combination means.  Not subject to interpretation, nor limited in any way unless specified.

What *is* subject to interpretation is the language in the various press releases and marketing materials surrounding the RDC7.  My position, which I've said before, is that I believe the language surrounding (and hemming in) the upgradeability of the unit was added/modified at some point after the initial release.  As I've also said before, I cannot prove this.  However, that is my belief.

Nonetheless, my position is clear.  I will vote with my feet and $ depending on which way IR goes.  As for legal action, I will happily participate in any action taken by another but will not attempt to spearhead anything myself.

TM
&quot;Future-proof&quot; is a hyphenated word; lots of hyphenated words are in the dictionary.  This one isn't.  You get no points for it in Scrabble.  The dictionary is the standard for our language; it's the basis for communication. If it's not in the dictionary, by definition (so to speak), it's open to interpretation.  Saying it's &quot;quite clear&quot; is preposterous.

&quot;I will vote with my feet and $ depending on which way IR goes.&quot;

That is the least preposterous thing you've said.  
</font>
 
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pepar

pepar

Junior Audioholic
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Razvanel : &quot;You still haven't said why you think RDC-7 owners are &quot;fully justified&quot; in expecting a trade-in program when IR never said there'd be one.  On what do you base this claim?&quot;

On the fact that the RDC-7 was advertised as being future-proof. It's not. It's a dead-end product. That's deceptive advertising. Ergo, RDC-7 owners are fully justified in expecting a trade-in program.

R
It's not a dead-end product.  They plan to add Firewire.  And they haven't said they're not offering any upgrades beyond that either.  At worst, it's future is unknown.

But just for argumant's sake, let's say it IS a dead-end product.  How do you make the leap to saying they owe owners a trade-in program?  Why not a refund?  Why not a 7.1?  Hell, as long as you're making stuff up, why not a Maserati?

anthonymoody has it right - &quot;I will vote with my feet and $ depending on which way IR goes.&quot;</font>
 
S

steve

Audioholic
<font color='#000000'>Greetings everyone,

While I'm glad we are engaging in dialog about the RDC-7.1, I see we are getting a bit off topic. &nbsp;My thought is that if Integra Research views this forum thread, which they may, they will probably run away if it's nothing but another argumentive forum. &nbsp;

We should try to stay focused on what people think IR should do for current RDC-7 owners, and not beat each other up on what they may/may not have said. &nbsp;

If we get off topic and the same three people post back and forth, we have not accomplished our goal which was to provide feedback to the manufacturer. &nbsp;So please be respectful of each other and lets give other owners a chance to voice their opinions.

Thanks again for all the interest.</font>
 
pepar

pepar

Junior Audioholic
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stevied4him : <font color='#000000'>Greetings everyone,

While I'm glad we are engaging in dialog about the RDC-7.1, I see we are getting a bit off topic.  My thought is that if Integra Research views this forum thread, which they may, they will probably run away if it's nothing but another argumentive forum.  

We should try to stay focused on what people think IR should do for current RDC-7 owners, and not beat each other up on what they may/may not have said.  

If we get off topic and the same three people post back and forth, we have not accomplished our goal which was to provide feedback to the manufacturer.  So please be respectful of each other and lets give other owners a chance to voice their opinions.

Thanks again for all the interest.</font>
<font color='#000000'>The same three people to which you refer (and I'm one) have already expressed their thoughts on what they think IR should do for RDC-7 owners. &nbsp;Occasionally, someone new chimes in, but otherwise the thread consists of only those three people. &nbsp;I don't know how much traffic you're getting, but I'll bet if we three stop posting, the thread will sink. &nbsp;At least this way it stays at the top. &nbsp;


In any event, I understand and will respect your wishes.

Signing off . . .</font>
 
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G

Guest

Guest
<font color='#000000'>I have had my RDC-7 for almost 2 years and I agree with those who think that Integra Research should offer a trade up program - &nbsp;$2000 for a trade up is a bit expensive IMO but better than upgrading a dated preamp anyways... A future-proof promise is a future-proof promise! No trade up, adios Integra Research!

Che</font>
 
G

Guest

Guest
<font color='#000000'>HI new to this thread found on AVS. I think it would be a good move for Integra Research to offer trade up program where we get a substantial discount on a new processor if we turn in our serial# and get to keep the old one for resale. &nbsp;Aragon did this with the Soundstage/Stage One trade up program and it seemed to be successful for them. &nbsp;

I wouldn't mind spending $2500 for a new $5K processor and selling my old RDC7 for $2K and have out of pocket expense of only $500.

Just my two cents.</font>
 
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