Infinity Primus P363 Floorstanding Loudspeaker Review

Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Ratings
9,604 68 8
#81
... if the listener isn't positioned ideally,
I'm thinking that all the speakers get tested on axis. How could that be anything less than ideal for the ML? My quip with the H/K testing is that it's done at ~82 db which isn't really a quip at all but it does narrow down where a speaker needs to behave to come out on top in their test. I like listening right around that volume so ... ;)
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
5,013 7 1
#82
I agree with you on some points, but...



Aren't these fundamentally opposed concepts here?
For some electronics, I wouldn't agree with the go with the ears thing unless it is a series of blind tests in pure direct, volume matched and driven well within their power limits.

For speakers I would have to agree with Gene, the differences are typically enough that you can go with your ears. Yes, if you prefer those sizzles or any other particular coloration then go for it. For some people though, and I am one of those who blindly go after anything that sounds live like, flat FR and minimum distortions, going with their ears would only good up to a point, after that such people rely a lot on the specifications and measurements. I find my P362 lacking in the lower frequencies, dynamics and the violin does not sound right to me, so despite their apparently good measurements I do not use them for serious music enjoyment. For background music, FM and HT I think they are great for those on a budget.
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
5,013 7 1
#83
I'm thinking that all the speakers get tested on axis. How could that be anything less than ideal for the ML? My quip with the H/K testing is that it's done at ~82 db which isn't really a quip at all but it does narrow down where a speaker needs to behave to come out on top in their test. I like listening right around that volume so ... ;)
Do you gave graphs for those Martin Logan?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Seriously, I have no life.
Ratings
7,247 19 6
#84
I think we all agree that people should buy speakers that sound good to them.

It's personal preference. I think Speaker A is much better than Speaker B for a little more money because that's my personal preference.

And we tell people, "You have to audition for yourself".

And some guys say, "But I can't".

So everyone recommends speakers based on his personal preference. And we get 100 recommendations from 100 guys.
 
J

John_Frum

Audiophyte
#85
So now, I can show you this...

Fry's has these speakers on sale for $200/pair. In store only.

*********************************************

Sorry about the silly post. I wanted to make sure I got this link in. I know you could have just went to Fry's site yourself and found it, but it is always much easier to just post the original link. I am not a scammer/spammer. I post on other forums sometimes but spend most of my time on the Parts Express Tech Talk boards.

everyone already knows about the Fry's deal. Stick to posting this sort of stuff in the deals section, NOT a product review thread. Your 5-6 posts to plant this link was in fact SPAM!
 
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B

BM1

Audioholic Intern
Ratings
7
#86
Are the red and black plugs on the ends of the bindings posts of the P363 removable? I read in the Audioholics review that they were difficult to remove, but I guess I never realized they were removable.

If so, I assume it's so they can accept a banana plug?
 
C

capricious

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
26
#87
Are the red and black plugs on the ends of the bindings posts of the P363 removable? I read in the Audioholics review that they were difficult to remove, but I guess I never realized they were removable.

If so, I assume it's so they can accept a banana plug?
Yup, they are removable. They came out quite easily using a kitchen knife. The plugs are not stuck or anything ... you just need to get the pointed tip of the knife under the plug, and pop it. I'm using banana plugs to hook these up to my receiver.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Ratings
4,472 22 9
#88
Yup, they are removable. They came out quite easily using a kitchen knife. The plugs are not stuck or anything ... you just need to get the pointed tip of the knife under the plug, and pop it. I'm using banana plugs to hook these up to my receiver.
You were lucky then. My review samples were glued in and I had to drill them out.
 
B

BM1

Audioholic Intern
Ratings
7
#89
Thanks guys. I'll take a look at mine and see about removing them. I've owned mine for quite a while and never new they came out.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Ratings
7,276 8 26
#91
When I was shopping for speakers, I had actually done the same thing. I in-home auditioned the Paradigm Studio 40s. I settled on the NHT M6s and then I heard the GRs when a friend brought them over for a ~$200 bookshelf shootout and well...I didn't buy the NHTs or the Studio 40s. Not that I don't like those speakers, but I had a definite preference for the GRs.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Seriously, I have no life.
Ratings
7,247 19 6
#92
Are the red and black plugs on the ends of the bindings posts of the P363 removable? I read in the Audioholics review that they were difficult to remove, but I guess I never realized they were removable.

If so, I assume it's so they can accept a banana plug?
Came out easily for me as well using mini flat screwdriver.

Yes, they accept banana plugs fine.
 
B

BM1

Audioholic Intern
Ratings
7
#93
I was able to get my plugs out last night. I just used a needle nose pair of scissors to get under them. I wish I would've known these came out a year ago. :)
 
N

nogaro

Full Audioholic
Ratings
64
#94
I would hope so b/c the Infinity P363 is a decent speaker but much better can be had for only a little more $$$. That being said, much worse could be had for more money too :eek:

I guess I'd like little and much defined. :)

What would be your top 3 picks in the $750 range? That's like not too too much more than what anybody ever paid for the Infinities.
I would like to know the answer to Alex's question as well. I'm guessing the E55Ti would be one of them (close enough to $750, I guess).

If I price out a 5.0 system with 4xP363 and 1xPC351, that comes out to $600. How does that compare against the Intimus Midi HT system on sale for $999 (which includes Bravus IIa 8D Sub)?
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Ratings
4,472 22 9
#95
I would like to know the answer to Alex's question as well. I'm guessing the E55Ti would be one of them (close enough to $750, I guess).

If I price out a 5.0 system with 4xP363 and 1xPC351, that comes out to $600. How does that compare against the Intimus Midi HT system on sale for $999 (which includes Bravus IIa 8D Sub)?
At $400/pr and below, nothing is really in the same league as the P363s from my experience. I don't have a lot of experience with towers in the $750/pr range. I mostly recommend bookshelf speakers until you get to around $1500/pr.

However, I have spent a lot of time with a close audiophile friend comparing the P363s, Fluance XL7Fs and Emp E55Tis and the EMPs are superior in every category except bass extension. Though the P363's have an edge in bass extension, the bass they produce isn't nearly as tight or snappy as the EMP bass.

The Fluance win on bass but tend to have a bit too much upper bass for their own good. The P363s are more balanced in sound than the Fluance but they also don't seem to play as effortlessly at loud SPL. The EMP's play much more effortlessly than either speaker. They have a much larger soundstage and sound more tonally neutral. The EMP E55tis paired with two Rythmik or SVS subs is hard to beat for the money. And, they look great which makes the wifey happy too :)

The P363s won't play nearly as loud without compression as the EMP's but they do have more boom and sizzle which can be appealing to a more casual listener. You definitely hear a bit more detail from the P363s than either of the other speakers but they are also a bit too sibilant on female vocals for my tastes.

For around $1k/pr, I'd take a serious look at the Aperion Verus Forte or the RBH MC-6CT tower (excellent speaker). The Verus Grand tower is also great and I'd expect similar from its smaller more affordable Forte sibling.

If your in a small room, I still like the idea of a really high performance bookshelf (ie. Definitive Studio 65s) and two subs over towers. If you're in a large room and like high listening levels, then a tower is usually more appropriate in conjunction with a subwoofer or two of course.

Now if you're on a tight budget and getting the P363s for $200/pr, GET THEM and later down the road throw them in a spare room when you have more funds to upgrade. They are an unbeatable deal at that price!
 
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slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Spartan
Ratings
2,440 7 20
#96
At $400/pr and below, nothing is really in the same league as the P363s from my experience. I don't have a lot of experience with towers in the $750/pr range. I mostly recommend bookshelf speakers until you get to around $1500/pr.

However, I have spent a lot of time with a close audiophile friend comparing the P363s, Fluance XL7Fs and Emp E55Tis and the EMPs are superior in every category except bass extension. Though the P363's have an edge in bass extension, the bass they produce isn't nearly as tight or snappy as the EMP bass.

The Fluance win on bass but tend to have a bit too much upper bass for their own good. The P363s are more balanced in sound than the Fluance but they also don't seem to play as effortlessly at loud SPL. The EMP's play much more effortlessly than either speaker. They have a much larger soundstage and sound more tonally neutral.

The P363s won't play nearly as loud without compression as the EMP's but they do have more boom and sizzle which can be appealing to a more casual listener. You definitely hear a bit more detail from the P363s than either of the other speakers but they are also a bit too sibilant on female vocals for my tastes.

For around $1k/pr, I'd take a serious look at the Aperion Verus Forte however. The Verus Grand tower is great and I'd expect similar from its smaller more affordable sibling.

If your in a small room, I still like the idea of a really high performance bookshelf (ie. Definitive Studio 65s) and two subs over towers. If you're in a large room and like high listening levels, then a tower is usually more appropriate in conjunction with a subwoofer or two of course. The EMP E55tis paired with two Rythmik or SVS subs is hard to beat for the money.

Now if you're on a tight budget and getting the P363s for $200/pr, GET THEM and later down the road throw them in a spare room when you have more funds to upgrade. They are an unbeatable deal at that price!
What about the mods that are floating around on this forum for the P363? Have you heard the modded speakers (added damping and/or bracing)? Even better, if someone could provide pre and post mod measurements that would be the ticket. I realize this is out of the scope of most members, but I'm sure at least 20% of us would be very interested. I have the P362 in my 2nd system and I'm sure I will want to do the mods later down the line.
 
N

nogaro

Full Audioholic
Ratings
64
#97
At $400/pr and below, nothing is really in the same league as the P363s from my experience. I don't have a lot of experience with towers in the $750/pr range. I mostly recommend bookshelf speakers until you get to around $1500/pr.

However, I have spent a lot of time with a close audiophile friend comparing the P363s, Fluance XL7Fs and Emp E55Tis and the EMPs are superior in every category except bass extension. Though the P363's have an edge in bass extension, the bass they produce isn't nearly as tight or snappy as the EMP bass.

The Fluance win on bass but tend to have a bit too much upper bass for their own good. The P363s are more balanced in sound than the Fluance but they also don't seem to play as effortlessly at loud SPL. The EMP's play much more effortlessly than either speaker. They have a much larger soundstage and sound more tonally neutral.

The P363s won't play nearly as loud without compression as the EMP's but they do have more boom and sizzle which can be appealing to a more casual listener. You definitely hear a bit more detail from the P363s than either of the other speakers but they are also a bit too sibilant on female vocals for my tastes.

For around $1k/pr, I'd take a serious look at the Aperion Verus Forte or the RBH MC-6CT tower (excellent speaker). The Verus Grand tower is also great and I'd expect similar from its smaller more affordable Forte sibling.

If your in a small room, I still like the idea of a really high performance bookshelf (ie. Definitive Studio 65s) and two subs over towers. If you're in a large room and like high listening levels, then a tower is usually more appropriate in conjunction with a subwoofer or two of course. The EMP E55tis paired with two Rythmik or SVS subs is hard to beat for the money.

Now if you're on a tight budget and getting the P363s for $200/pr, GET THEM and later down the road throw them in a spare room when you have more funds to upgrade. They are an unbeatable deal at that price!
Thanks, Gene. That was very helpful. I can wait a few months which will also allow me to stretch my budget a bit. Since the sale on the P363s ends tomorrow I was just wondering if I should bite - I don't really need an HT until Nov/Dec.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Ratings
4,472 22 9
#98
What about the mods that are floating around on this forum for the P363? Have you heard the modded speakers (added damping and/or bracing)? Even better, if someone could provide pre and post mod measurements that would be the ticket. I realize this is out of the scope of most members, but I'm sure at least 20% of us would be very interested. I have the P362 in my 2nd system and I'm sure I will want to do the mods later down the line.
I'm sure the mods would significantly help in the bass department. The entire bottom cavity of the stock version is hollow which is ridiculous. But, the real limitation of these speakers IMO is the tweeter. The midrange driver is great however and the bass drivers are acceptable.
 
R

riker1384

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
11 1
#99
Are these as good as the P362 or 360? Has anyone compared them side by side? People have assumed they're just cosmetic updates, but the FR graphs don't look the same. The one in this article looks good for a cheap speaker, but not nearly as flat as the 360's graph in Stereophile: Infinity Primus 360 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com Or the P362 graph that Sean Olive has posted on his blog.

Have they deliberately added boom & sizzle to appeal to commoners? Or cheapened the design, or the quality control? Or is there something wrong with the measurements?
 
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gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Ratings
4,472 22 9
Are these as good as the P362 or 360? Has anyone compared them side by side? People have assumed they're just cosmetic updates, but the FR graphs don't look the same. The one in this article looks good for a cheap speaker, but not nearly as flat as the 360's graph in Stereophile: Infinity Primus 360 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com Or the P362 graph that Sean Olive has posted on his blog.

Have they deliberately added boom & sizzle to appeal to commoners? Or cheapened the design, or the quality control? Or is there something wrong with the measurements?
I doubt the design has radically changed much between the P360 and P363. Stereophile does a sum of close mic'd measurements. This will produce different ( and less accurate results at bass frequencies) compared to my 1 meter outdoor GP measurements below 1kHz and 1/2 meter summed nearfield in-room responses above 1kHz.

That being said, this speaker does have a deliberate bass and treble bump to appeal to the average shopper for this category of product. The Stereophile comments about cabinet resonances seem spot on giving the lack of dampening and moderate bracing these speakers have.

There are no free lunches for a product of this price point so take it with a grain of salt when Harman publishes papers that this speaker out classes legitimately good more expensive competitor designs.
 
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