Infinity Primus P363 Floorstanding Loudspeaker Review

[PENG]

Like we think, probably a lot more to it than just on-axis and off-axis and measurements.

Sure, great measurements are for real and that's what we want. But after passing that test, the best speakers will also pass the actual listening tests with all kinds of music like complex orchestras.

Eactly, that's why I didn't mention those as the list can get to a mile long.
You wonder why people typically want to just upgrade their amps. Amps are mature technology, very few well kept secrets if any, all in a box, or two, and don't interact with your room. They just interact with our eyes and may be fingers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Eactly, that's why I didn't mention those as the list can get to a mile long.
You wonder why people typically want to just upgrade their amps. Amps are mature technology, very few well kept secrets if any, all in a box, or two, and don't interact with your room. They just interact with our eyes and may be fingers.

I think it's because amps and wires are so much easier to change out compared to all the big bulky expensive speakers.

If they can convince themselves that amps will improve the sound, it would be so much easier to do than change out speakers.

I like my DefTech system a lot. But man, the BP7000 were like 160lbs each x 2, BP7001 were like 130lbs each x 2, CLR3000 was like 80lbs x 1, Trinity was like 200lbs x 1. That's a lot of bulk and weight to change out - pack up, sell, ship, etc.

It was so much easier selling my Emotiva MPS-2 or Acurus amps.

 

[PENG]

I think it's because amps and wires are so much easier to change out compared to all the big bulky expensive speakers.

If they can convince themselves that amps will improve the sound, it would be so much easier to do than change out speakers.

I like my DefTech system a lot. But man, the BP7000 were like 160lbs each x 2, BP7001 were like 130lbs each x 2, CLR3000 was like 80lbs x 1, Trinity was like 200lbs x 1. That's a lot of bulk and weight to change out - pack up, sell, ship, etc.

It was so much easier selling my Emotiva MPS-2 or Acurus amps.

Agree, much easier, cheaper, quicker and it does not seem too hard to convince themselves either. All people have to do is don't listen to people like you (ok..and I..), instead just welcome Placebo with open arms..

 

[ousooner2]

If I can add my 2 cents...

I've dealt with car audio quite a bit and I've always found that driver changes (and sometimes placement changes..remember this is car audio and reflections are a B to deal with) have a MUCH larger difference than amp changes. With my own setup, I've changed amps from older & the much better MB-Quart, Image Dynamics, JL HD and XD, Audison and various others. I've received much larger gains from driver changes than amp changes. Quite a few of my buddies on DIYMA feel the same too. Most that have actually changed amps and drivers enough to say...feel that way. Power changes are another thing. With more power, I feel dynamics have always gotten better. Distortion obviously decreases with all else equal.

I imagine home audio would be the same. The only thing different is a little less to deal with in reflections. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people complain about an amp, certain driver, etc...only to find out they have no EQ/tune or they have just put a component system in their car and expected amazing results

 

[KEW]

I think it's because amps and wires are so much easier to change out compared to all the big bulky expensive speakers.

Didn't slow you down much!

Oh, that's right...you bypassed the "change out" part.

 

[slipperybidness]

He mentioned "neutral" and "accurate", if I remember correctly. I am not sure we all know what qualify a speaker to be considered neutral and accurate, I mean even just on paper such as graphs and specs. Obviously a speaker that has +/-6 dB over the audible range should not be consider accurate, but should a speaker that has +/-3 dB necessarily considered not as accurate/neutral as one that offers +/- 2 dB, without considering other factors such as the what, where, how and things other than frequency response that also contribute to sound quality, such as distortions, transient response, ability to do well with more complex signals such those recorded in huge symphony orchestras?

I think there aren't much unkowns in amp specs such that provided the specs are honest, detailed, complete, and verifiable, I feel comfortable to make a purchase decision without relying on my ears. With speakers, I am not willing to judge them by looking at the specs and graphs only. Don't get me wrong I do value specs and graphs, but to a much lesser extent that I do with amps, that's all. And I do use them to weed out speakers that I won't even bother considering.

Definitely not enough info to declare that +/-2 dB is more accurate than +/-3 dB. You don't know the conditions of the testing and a single graph or even a few graphs won't do it.

Also, you don't know the precision of the equipment, when it was calibrated. Other systematic errors and random or human errors, frequency noise, RF interference, all of these items are inherent in measurements of any type. I think it would be a good assumption that a 1dB difference in measurement is "in the noise" of the measurement technique.

 

[Steve81]

You wonder why people typically want to just upgrade their amps.

To some extent, I'd imagine pride of ownership / mystique have a lot to do with it. Everybody and their brother have Yamaha, Marantz, Denon, Onkyo, etc receivers. There's nothing special about them. OTOH, relatively few people have a high end separates system. It's like gaining entry into an elite club. You also mention interaction with ones fingers and eyes; while it won't impact the actual sound waves being produced by the speakers, it will still have a great impact on what you hear. You might call it expectation bias or the placebo effect, but you've got to look deeper; if you're not pleased with the appearance or fit and finish of a receiver, you're just not going to enjoy listening to it, regardless of the fact that the sound may not be a whit different than if you hooked up a high dollar amplifier.

 

[JerryLove]

I like my 362 a lot but they don't sound good with orchestral classical recordings such as concertos and symphonies. I have no idea why..

It's fixable. Rip out the crossover, resize and seal the chambers behind the woofers and midrange, add in a LF driver (might I recommend a JL 10W7?), and replace the tweeter with a good ribbon.

Then just grab 4 amps and a pair of Behringer DCX's to crossover and I think you'll find your orchestral pieces sound much improved.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/members/jerrylove-albums-wmax-speakers-picture149-finished-speakers-grills-off.html

 

[PENG]

It's fixable. Rip out the crossover, resize and seal the chambers behind the woofers and midrange, add in a LF driver (might I recommend a JL 10W7?), and replace the tweeter with a good ribbon.

Then just grab 4 amps and a pair of Behringer DCX's to crossover and I think you'll find your orchestral pieces sound much improved.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/members/jerrylove-albums-wmax-speakers-picture149-finished-speakers-grills-off.html

Thanks Jerry, that doesn't sound too difficult and I hope you are talking from actual experience

 

[PENG]

if you're not pleased with the appearance or fit and finish of a receiver, you're just not going to enjoy listening to it, regardless of the fact that the sound may not be a whit different than if you hooked up a high dollar amplifier.

It sounds funny, but I have to agree. Take for instance, of all the speakers ADTG currently has, it he were to force me to take a pair and must use them in my living or family room and not allowed to sell them forever, I would for sure take the 201/2 or may be the 802 as I find the big Revels not too good looking even though they are the most expensive pair in his collections.

Likewise, of all the KEFs, the blades probably sound best (no one has auditioned the Muons right?) but again if not allowed to sell for my life time, I would take the 207 just for the better look so I don't have to listen blind.

 

[JerryLove]

Thanks Jerry, that doesn't sound too difficult and I hope you are talking from actual experience

You didn't follow the link?

 

[PENG]

You didn't follow the link?

Sorry I didn't even notice the link. I see it now, looks impressive, thanks again.

 

[Alex2507]

It's fixable. Rip out the crossover, resize and seal the chambers behind the woofers and midrange, add in a LF driver (might I recommend a JL 10W7?), and replace the tweeter with a good ribbon.

Then just grab 4 amps and a pair of Behringer DCX's to crossover and I think you'll find your orchestral pieces sound much improved.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/members/jerrylove-albums-wmax-speakers-picture149-finished-speakers-grills-off.html

Ahem ... it's an 8W7.

 

[JerryLove]

Ahem ... it's an 8W7.

I was recommending a 10W7. Did not mean to imply that it was a 10 in my own.

I was ready to put 10's in, and was assured they would fit with minor modding; but that would have added (my estimate) 10 years to the build time; as any pre-owner of these can attest.

 

[Alex2507]

I was recommending a 10W7. Did not mean to imply that it was a 10 in my own.

I was ready to put 10's in, and was assured they would fit with minor modding; but that would have added (my estimate) 10 years to the build time; as any pre-owner of these can attest.

There's no such thing as minor modding ... well, maybe I just suck at it.
A lot of love went into those.
Thanks again.

 

[JerryLove]

There's no such thing as minor modding ... well, maybe I just suck at it.
A lot of love went into those.
Thanks again.

I wasn't about to mess with the Maestro's work myself. That was a discussion between WmAx and I before I picked these up. After some discussion with other Audioholics, and some consideration, I became concerned that the mod would push a complete date into eternity. As it was, I'm convinced these were only ready because of some heavy-lifing by a monkey.

I will say, should the construction bug ever get into me on this topic; an imitation of these with my own (presently unmodded) P362s might happen. I've actually got the 10W7s; I'd just need the tweeters. I'd like to do what Chris had wanted to in his hear-of-hearts and put a second MT on the back. I'd also love to plate-amp (but that might end up being custom build amp and wow... the work level shoots up quickly doesn't it?)

 

[Alex2507]

I wasn't about to mess with the Maestro's work myself. That was a discussion between WmAx and I before I picked these up. After some discussion with other Audioholics, and some consideration, I became concerned that the mod would push a complete date into eternity. As it was, I'm convinced these were only ready because of some heavy-lifing by a monkey.

I knew what you meant. I think you might be right about those speakers never seeing completion without a couple of visits from yours truly. What a time, huh? The vast majority of the work was done by the time I got there though. Aside from what all went into the cabinet, visually the most striking thing is the veneer.

For now I'm all done with Infinity Primus. I've had my fill.

 

[JerryLove]

Well, you are welcome to stop in for a listen if you ever find yourself in Tampa.

I'll buy the beer.

 

[slipperybidness]

I wasn't about to mess with the Maestro's work myself. That was a discussion between WmAx and I before I picked these up. After some discussion with other Audioholics, and some consideration, I became concerned that the mod would push a complete date into eternity. As it was, I'm convinced these were only ready because of some heavy-lifing by a monkey.

I will say, should the construction bug ever get into me on this topic; an imitation of these with my own (presently unmodded) P362s might happen. I've actually got the 10W7s; I'd just need the tweeters. I'd like to do what Chris had wanted to in his hear-of-hearts and put a second MT on the back. I'd also love to plate-amp (but that might end up being custom build amp and wow... the work level shoots up quickly doesn't it?)

Is there a link to that mod-build? Looks interesting.

 

[monkish54]

I find the big Revels not too good looking

Friendship terminated. LOL xD