Infinity Primus P363 Floorstanding Loudspeaker Review

AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

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#61
What improvement would you get going to a revel f12 instead of a p363?

I wish I could hear a side-by-side comparison to see if the revel f12 is worth the extra dough.
Yeah, I agree with PENG that the Revel F12 will sound better than the P363. :D

But the question is whether the difference will be worth it to you? That is a question only you can answer.
 
gene

gene

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#62
I bet the f12 will sound far superior. The 363 has the same specs and price as the 362. While the 362 has some nice graphs and sounds good at their price point, I really won't use them for serious music listening.
I would hope so b/c the Infinity P363 is a decent speaker but much better can be had for only a little more $$$. That being said, much worse could be had for more money too :eek:
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

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#63
the Infinity P363 is a decent speaker but much better can be had for only a little more $$$.
Like what? The P363 usually goes for $200 each or less brand new.

Are we talking pure subjective opinions about sound quality or objective measurements that are much better ?
 
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PENG

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#64
I would hope so b/c the Infinity P363 is a decent speaker but much better can be had for only a little more $$$. That being said, much worse could be had for more money too :eek:
That may be true for someone who bought the Infinity at regular price at BB but I paid $279.99 for my 362 brand new in seal box at BB when it was on sale. I read about others paid even less.
 
gene

gene

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#65
That may be true for someone who bought the Infinity at regular price at BB but I paid $279.99 for my 362 brand new in seal box at BB when it was on sale. I read about others paid even less.
For under $400/pair IMO these speakers are hard to beat if one is looking for a floorstander so at $279/pr that is a killer deal. At that price, nothing can touch them!
 
gene

gene

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#66
Like what? The P363 usually goes for $200 each or less brand new.

Are we talking pure subjective opinions about sound quality or objective measurements that are much better ?
Measurements don't tell you everything about how a speaker sounds. They are only the beginning of understand its performance. Most measurements don't give you a complete picture of sound, especially the crude distortion measurements most manufacturers and magazines (audioholics included) do on loudspeakers.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

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#67
For under $400/pair IMO these speakers are hard to beat if one is looking for a floorstander so at $279/pr that is a killer deal. At that price, nothing can touch them!
Yeah, I paid $300/pr new. Now Fry's is selljng @ $200/pr new in stores.

So a lot of times it's the street prices that count.
 
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PENG

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#68
Yeah, I paid $300/pr new. Now Fry's is selljng @ $200/pr new in stores.

So a lot of times it's the street prices that count.
Everyone seem to agree those things can't be touched for the price and that they do sound quite good but how the heck do they make money at such insane prices? Who the heck would buy them at least price knowing if they wait a month of less they will be able to pick them up at those insanely low prices in sealed boxes with full factory warranty?:confused:
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

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#69
Everyone seem to agree those things can't be touched for the price and that they do sound quite good but how the heck do they make money at such insane prices? Who the heck would buy them at least price knowing if they wait a month of less they will be able to pick them up at those insanely low prices in sealed boxes with full factory warranty?:confused:
One huge advantage the big boys of Harman, KEF, B&W, etc, have over Internet Direct much, much smaller companies.

It probably costs Harman $50/pr to make. Even if they sell $150/pr, that's $100/pr profit x 10,000 pairs = $1,000,000 profit.

Some guys have said to me, "Why not let Salk or Del make your 802D speaker?"

Well, just the piano gloss cabinets alone would costs $10K/pr. Add the cheapest aftermarket diamond tweeters would total $14K/pr. Add the 3 other drivers would total $16K/pr. Crossovers and packing cartons would total $17K. What about labor, testing, and profits?

So even if they sell the P363 for $200/pr, which is INSANE, there is still profit.

The P363 at under $400/pr is the ultimate all-purpose towers for most family homes.

My 10 yr old daughter and her 2 cousins were singing karaoke last night. I was really glad the P362s were only $300/pr. :eek:

And thank the lord for Yamaha mixers with Compression feature because the singing was not a fiasco. :D
 
gtpsuper24

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#70
Measurements don't tell you everything about how a speaker sounds. They are only the beginning of understand its performance. Most measurements don't give you a complete picture of sound, especially the crude distortion measurements most manufacturers and magazines (audioholics included) do on loudspeakers.
I agree 100%.

I've had speakers that supposedly measure really well but sounded shrill, frail, and bright and were not a speaker to listen to for extended periods. Looking at those FR graphs you would think they would be good speakers :( wrong.

Don't forget room acoustics play a huge part in how a speaker will sound and the FR isn't going to look any where near what is posted on the websites.
 
gene

gene

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#71
I agree 100%.

I've had speakers that supposedly measure really well but sounded shrill, frail, and bright and were not a speaker to listen to for extended periods. Looking at those FR graphs you would think they would be good speakers :( wrong.

Don't forget room acoustics play a huge part in how a speaker will sound and the FR isn't going to look any where near what is posted on the websites.
A single smoothed frequency response graph tells you very little about a speaker. It's very easy to make measurements look good as I've written about here:

Audio Measurements: The Useful vs. the Bogus in Consumer Audio — Reviews and News from Audioholics
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

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#72
I would hope so b/c the Infinity P363 is a decent speaker but much better can be had for only a little more $$$. That being said, much worse could be had for more money too :eek:
I guess I'd like little and much defined. :)

What would be your top 3 picks in the $750 range? That's like not too too much more than what anybody ever paid for the Infinities.
 
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jm78

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#73
Yeah, I agree with PENG that the Revel F12 will sound better than the P363. :D

But the question is whether the difference will be worth it to you? That is a question only you can answer.
It's worth it if there is a noticeable difference. I guess that's the problem, noticeable to some may not be noticeable to others.

I don't have much experience owning speakers much since living in apartments mostly, but did own and enjoyed my infinity p362's when I had them.

I would be seriously disappointed if I paid more for my next speakers and got worse sound than the p362's I had. Which is why I was thinking, well revel f12's must be better.

Although, the kef q900's look nice and has been getting some good reviews, may look into getting those.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

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#74
I would be seriously disappointed if I paid more for my next speakers and got worse sound than the p362's I had. Which is why I was thinking, well revel f12's must be better.

Although, the kef q900's look nice and has been getting some good reviews, may look into getting those.
I'm sure you've read about the double-blinded tests (DBT) Harman did comparing P362 vs speakers costing several thousands like Martin Logan. And most people preferred the P362.

So unless it's a DBT where we can truly compare w/o bias (aesthetics, price, prestige, etc),there's really no telling if one is much better or significantly better for more money.

If you paired the P363 w/ a sub from Ryhmik, SVS, HSU, Velodyne, Funk, Epik, RBH, etc, and compared to F12 or Q900 w/ NO subs in a DBT, I'm betting on the P363 for any music with good bass. :D

For example, you went to Fry's and bought P362 for $200/PR. Then bought HSU VTF-2 MK4 for $519. Or Rythmik FV12 for $550 when available.

In a DBT, I'm not sure if another pair of $2K speakers (w/o subs) would sound better if your music involves good bass.
 
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gene

gene

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#75
I'm sure you've read about the double-blinded tests (DBT) Harman did comparing P362 vs speakers costing several thousands like Martin Logan. And most people preferred the P362.

So unless it's a DBT where we can truly compare w/o bias (aesthetics, price, prestige, etc),there's really no telling if one is much better or significantly better for more money.

If you paired the P363 w/ a sub from Ryhmik, SVS, HSU, Velodyne, Funk, Epik, RBH, etc, and compared to F12 or Q900 w/ NO subs in a DBT, I'm betting on the P363 for any music with good bass. :D

For example, you went to Fry's and bought P362 for $200/PR. Then bought HSU VTF-2 MK4 for $519. Or Rythmik FV12 for $550 when available.

In a DBT, I'm not sure if another pair of $2K speakers (w/o subs) would sound better if your music involves good bass.
It's important to note the Infinity vs Martin Logan so called "DBT" you are referring to was conducted by Harman. Manufacturers never lose their own blind tests, something I've written extensively about here:

The Insanity of Marketing Disguised as Science in Loudspeakers — Reviews and News from Audioholics
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

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#76
It's important to note the Infinity vs Martin Logan so called "DBT" you are referring to was conducted by Harman. Manufacturers never lose their own blind tests, something I've written extensively about here:

The Insanity of Marketing Disguised as Science in Loudspeakers — Reviews and News from Audioholics
Yes, but the subjects used by Harman are not company employees. And a lot of people will agree that Harman does DBT (Floyd Toole/ Sean Olive) better than anyone else because they have the money and resources that no 3rd parties will never have.

A 3rd party "study" with very limited and insignificant numbers of subjects, finance, and resources will not be as useful as a big scale study conducted by Harman International.
 
gene

gene

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#77
Yes, but the subjects used by Harman are not company employees. And a lot of people will agree that Harman does DBT (Floyd Toole/ Sean Olive) better than anyone else because they have the money and resources that no 3rd parties will never have.

A 3rd party "study" with very limited and insignificant numbers of subjects, finance, and resources will not be as useful as a big scale study conducted by Harman International.
There are still ways to exploit product weaknesses in a blind test. Martin Logan's for example sound best in a very narrow sweet spot so if the listener isn't positioned ideally, and the source material emphasizes that weakness, then its very conceivable that the speaker with broader dispersion would win. Also, inexperienced listeners typically prefer a speaker that has more boom and sizzle to one that is more neutral sounding. The P363's certainly have a lot of sizzle so when directly compared against a speaker with a more laid back top end, it will probably be preferred by those that like a more forward upper octave response.

It doesn't matter how much resources a company has. Harman testing isn't perfect and their sample size of brands is quite small, especially when dealing with very spendy speakers. The point is every company I'm aware of that does "DBT's" always wins their own tests against other companies that conduct their own "DBT's" that they all claim to win too. I question those claims just like any other marketing claims manufacturers make about their products. Consumers should also do the same and trust their ears when evaluating speakers.
 
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GranteedEV

GranteedEV

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#78
I agree with you on some points, but...

Also, inexperienced listeners typically prefer a speaker that has more boom and sizzle to one that is more neutral sounding.

...

Consumers should also do the same and trust their ears when evaluating speakers.
Aren't these fundamentally opposed concepts here?
 
gene

gene

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#79
I agree with you on some points, but...



Aren't these fundamentally opposed concepts here?
Very good point. But in the end, if it sounds good to you, then that's all that matters since you have to live with the particular speaker.
 
Adam

Adam

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#80
In my experience speaker shopping, the above ideas stress the importance of auditioning multiple speakers. I really liked the Polks that I listened to back in 1997, but after listening to other speakers and ending with my NHTs, I realized that what attracted me at first was an accented midrange - but once I heard more neutral speakers without it, I didn't like it when I heard the Polks again. So, had I bought the Polks, I probably would have been plenty happy with my choice...until I heard other speakers.

That's why I love seeing people here recommending to others that they should audition speakers before making a choice.
 

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