In need of help choosing the best option for a new receiver and pre amp

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
But if he's using it as full range speaker without having a sub wondn't require more power. I just did some googling and it this has 15 inch woofer.

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You realize generally the larger the speaker it is the more sensitive it is? Hoffman's Iron Law. His are fairly sensitive at 94dB. Running full range does require a bit more power than using a sub to take some of the load off, tho.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
But if he's using it as full range speaker without having a sub woudn't it require more power. I just did some googling and it this has some big arse 15 inch woofer.

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The 15" Woofer is definitely a very fair point on power requirement.

Yes, 15" woofers require more power than 6" woofers. :D

I think the nexus is the Sensitivity of the Woofer.

A 15" woofer with a sensitivity of 84dB/2.83V/m is definitely going to need a lot more power than a 15" woofer with a sensitivity of 94dB/2.83V/m.

And also how LOW in frequency that woofer is designed for makes a difference. I think a Woofer designed for 20Hz is probably going to need more power than a woofer designed for 40Hz.

BTW, one of my very first speakers were the big Pioneer speakers with 15" woofers. I bet it was advertised to go down to 25Hz, but I think realistically more like 40Hz @ -3dB. :D I used a cheap 50WPC AVR to power it very loudly just fine. I sold those speakers to one of my pharmacist colleagues at work. :D
 
S

Sachb

Audioholic
The 15" Woofer is definitely a very fair point on power requirement.

Yes, 15" woofers require more power than 6" woofers. :D

I think the nexus is the Sensitivity of the Woofer.

A 15" woofer with a sensitivity of 84dB/2.83V/m is definitely going to need a lot more power than a 15" woofer with a sensitivity of 94dB/2.83V/m.

And also how LOW in frequency that woofer is designed for makes a difference. I think a Woofer designed for 20Hz is probably going to need more power than a woofer designed for 40Hz.

BTW, one of my very first speakers were the big Pioneer speakers with 15" woofers. I bet it was advertised to go down to 25Hz, but I think realistically more like 40Hz @ -3dB. :D I used a cheap 50WPC AVR to power it very loudly just fine. I sold those speakers to one of my pharmacist colleagues at work. :D
And I'm willing to bet that 50 wpc reciever was something other than Denon.

My cheapest Denon was a 75 watts X500 and it once shut off driving the Boston Acoustics A23 3.5 inch speakers. Lol

That Denon couldn't even power the tiny bookshelf speakers.


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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
And I'm willing to bet that 50 wpc reciever was something other than Denon.

My cheapest Denon was a 75 watts X500 and it once shut off driving the Boston Acoustics A23 3.5 inch speakers. Lol

That Denon couldn't even power the tiny bookshelf speakers.


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The other end of Hoffman's Iron Law explains that....tiny speakers can be harder to drive.....but if you're using 3.5" speakers in the first place....
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Big speakers being hard to drive is a common misconception, and imo an easy bridge to build. However, as mentioned larger speakers do tend to be much more sensitive and easier to drive. Large drivers higher sensitivity allows them to be driven to higher volumes with less distortion from lower powered amps. Big speakers with multiple drivers share power loads and thermal loads which helps raise efficiency and sensitivity as well.
@Desiloth, the original proposal won’t be affective simply because, even if you raise the input signal, the amp will only be capable of what it’s capable of, and no more.
So no, you can’t make a 250wpc amp put out 400wpc just by raising the signal level. Also as mentioned, all AVR’s have a preamp section IN it so even if you can connect a preamp, it won’t offer you anything.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
And I'm willing to bet that 50 wpc reciever was something other than Denon.

My cheapest Denon was a 75 watts X500 and it once shut off driving the Boston Acoustics A23 3.5 inch speakers. Lol

That Denon couldn't even power the tiny bookshelf speakers.


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It might have been overheating.

My Denon 3000 series would overheat and shut down until I added 3 x 120mm fans on top of the AVRs.
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
because they are my speakers
I like this. You should hold on to what you like and I wouldn't want you to change your speakers. And still!! even with that said, my comment wasn't biased. CVs are what they are. I just don't expect them to be something they're not. How many top-notch studios or top-notch professionals in the business use CV speakers? Exactly. It is not me being biased, it's just that I don't think CVs were build to compete with the best of them.

I see them as America's darling, as the speakers that could do the all-nighter hard rock party and not go into smoke in the morning and this is why in the '80. everyone took them to dorm rooms across the country. They got many people through exams playing Eye Of The Tiger and through broken hearts playing Achy Breaky Heart :p

They are a Pop-Culture fact.

Just don't confuse "he was nice to me" with "he knows his stuff and gave me good advice". Sachb is way too focused on Brand names. From what he writes, I don't see him giving you proper help.
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
I am not an audiophile, I don't want no $500 tweeters okay?
And this one is one is for Hall of Fame! Neither am I, nor do I want 500$ tweeters. But this goes for a lot of members here as well. They are after performance, not overpriced bling. Although 500$ is not that much for a tweeter.
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
Actually it's true 400 watts is a lot to ask but it would be better for him to stay close to that numberby including a power amp in his setup.

Wouldn't it help him at lower volumes?

He will still have more headroom.

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Again, this is incorrect. There is no need whatsoever to stay anywhere near those numbers. As lovin' said that's the extreme upper limit number as a warning that it all burns out at that point (and it would burn out even with 300 or 200 given a few minutes).

And as AcuDef said, if you can have 110dB with 100W, you won't need any headroom over that. That IS headroom. It is a "20dB over the ear damaging level" headroom.
 
S

Sachb

Audioholic
And this one is one is for Hall of Fame! Neither am I, nor do I want 500$ tweeters. But this goes for a lot of members here as well. They are after performance, not overpriced bling. Although 500$ is not that much for a tweeter.
Omg..Did you even read his post carefully? He stated that his budget was $1500-2000.

Why would he want to spend that money on just tweeter alone?

And for over $500-$600 one can get a good pair of Elac Debut Reference and be happy with it which are the best one can get for the money and save the rest of the money for a quality AVR + Amp combo.


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S

Sachb

Audioholic
Again, this is incorrect. There is no need whatsoever to stay anywhere near those numbers. As lovin' said that's the extreme upper limit number as a warning that it all burns out at that point (and it would burn out even with 300 or 200 given a few minutes).

And as AcuDef said, if you can have 110dB with 100W, you won't need any headroom over that. That IS headroom. It is a "20dB over the ear damaging level" headroom.
You didn't account for the listening distance, & the probability that he's running them on full range.

Some reviewers have mentioned, a power of atleast 200 watts is recommended.

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killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
You didn't account for the listening distance, & the probability that he's running them on full range.

Some reviewers have mentioned, a power of atleast 200 watts is recommended.

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Well, I tried. You can't say I didn't try. A member linked an SPL calculator few posts ago, you can try using that if you're having hard time trusting me.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Hello,

I am currently running a pair of Cerwin-Vega LS-15's both with woofer replacements of LaVoce WAF153.00 woofers.(Nominal is 400W originally, new woofers go for 500W) Also have a pair of Paradigm Model 11se Mk1(300W). Also will soon have a Centre woofer.

I am wondering what my best options would be for an A/V receiver and preamp for connecting to my computer. I do watch movies sometimes but am a huge music fan.(20/80 music) Currently I have a Harmon/Kardon AVR 130 that has been needing replacement. I am looking for something with lots of power and around 5 channels, maybe 7 if so. I think I will eventually hook up a preamp to the receiver, probably not right away.

I have been looking at Marantz receivers( Marantz SR5015 is what ive been considering, along with Anthem MRX 540) I'm just wondering what some of my best options would be, any recommendations would be greatly appreciated, thank you.
Budget is around 1500-2000(Looking for high power)
I can't believe this thread has gone for multiple pages already and I am not sure if all your questions have been answered so I would like to try to see if it can be summarized as follow:

1) Your listed your speakers, the Vega is rated 400 W, with new woofer 500 W, and the 11e MkI 300 W.
2) Want to know if your best options would be an AVR + a preamp
3) Looking at the SR5015, and MRX540
4) Budget is around $1,500 to $2,000 (want "high power")

My 2 cents are as follow:

1) You seem to think the 500 W and 300 W are "nominal". I can assure you those ratings are most likely "maximum", or "peak" power handling capability. Either way, speaker's power ratings are not that well defined, though we know one thing for sure, they are not "continuous" rating; and if your AVR-130 was doing fine for you before, you should have nothing to worry about as long as you pick a mid range AVR such as the SR5015 to replace it.

I don't remember if someone has suggested an online spl calculator, regardless, your first step should be to use the one linked below to find out how much power you really need. Your speakers have very good sensitivity, so even if you listen to sound pressure level as high as what you would hear in a movie cinema, I would guess as low as 60 Watt per channel would be good enough for you.

If you have questions on how to use it, just ask and someone will answer:

Peak SPL Calculator (homestead.com)

2) As others have explained, all AVRs, including the SR5015 you are looking at, come with preamps build in. Adding another preamp to it would be asking for trouble and a waste of money. If you want more power than the AVR can provide, you should add a power amplifier instead, not a preamplifier. You don't have to do that right away either. If you pick an AVR that has multichannel preamp outputs, you can add a power amplifier later.

3) I think most would agree the SR5015 is a better value than the MRX540, The Anthem MRX540 may cost you more for less features and power output. Anthem has to sell them for more because all else being equal, their cost would be higher as being a much smaller producer, they don't have the purchasing power that Marantz has.

4) For that budget, the Denon AVR-X3700H or AVR-X4700H have far better feature set and specifications than the Marantz SR5015, except if you need the 7.1 channel analog inputs then Marantz SR6015 would be your choice. Other than that, Denon's have been found to perform much better on the test benches. In terms of power output, they are virtually identical.

Next question?:)
 
D

Desiloth

Enthusiast
I believe you mean you want an AVR + an Amplifier (not Preamplifier).

The CV SL-15 is 8-ohm/94dB/2.83v/m, which means if you sit about 10 FT away from the speakers and use 100W of power, the volume level would be about 110dB, which is deafening level.

400W would be 116dB volume.

Have you measured the loudness of your speakers when you listen to music? Most of us don't listen louder than 90dB since that will lead to hearing loss.

How much power do you need to produce 90dB? You need about 1 Watt of power to produce 90dB from 10 FT away.

So I would just get an AVR without any external amplifier.

Cheers man, I didn't get an amp in the end, as your right, the volume sensitivity would be way to touchy.
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
1) Your listed your speakers, the Vega is rated 400 W, with new woofer 500 W
So this is something I'm a little stumped that nobody's addressed. He has a Cerwin Vega speaker with a replaced driver and no one's mentioned. At least I was under the impression that the crossover need to be redone, reworked, a new one, whatever. Am I wrong? Is my thought pattern worped? Please help
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
Cheers man, I didn't get an amp in the end, as your right, the volume sensitivity would be way to touchy.
Volume sensitivity too touchy? What does that mean particularly?
 
D

Desiloth

Enthusiast
So, what did you get? New AVR?

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Ended up getting the Marantz Sr5015, I know I could have gotten more power for way less but going for marantz in hope they offer better musical aspects.
 

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