Impressions of Salk SongTowers

[2channel lover]

in all the years I've been listening to the stereo phenomenon, the phantom center channel never ceases to amaze me. I know with technology these days its easy enough to put in a full time center channel and use available formats to force the center to "be real". But for me in my little corner of the world, the straight up two channel (plus a sub, nobody said I was a purist) is a marvel to hear when its setup correctly.

Like you, when I have people over for a listening visit, they always walk away shaking their heads and telling me the experience was incredible. In my own life, I can still recall the evening where I heard my first real stereo image of a live concert LP. It was life altering to suddenly see the sound spread out and deepen and all the things we associate with a stereo image. I think one of the reasons my visitors are so knocked out is they may never have heard a true stereo image before when listening to a speaker setup.

At any rate, I love what the Songtowers do.

Some speakers cast a soundstage that's more pronounced and convincing than others and I think the Salk do a great job of imaging. He was just amazed listening to Abraxas because he's played it many many times (friend is 60+ y/o) and he said he'd never heard it like that before.

I did buy a matching CC (1st matching one that I've owned) and for the bit of movies I watch and some blue concerts it comes to life...I'm glad I got it, but 2 channel stereo done right is still a great sound.

 

[Swerd]

@Bucknekked, @2channel lover, and @oldgoalie33

I keep checking back here to see if eljr has responded. He seems to have done his homework on new speakers in general, and I think he understands what he wants. He also seems to be acting deliberately and slowly, as opposed to impulsively.

In the meantime, I'm having fun reading what you have to say about your Salk speakers. Maybe eljr will get infected by your enthusiasm .

 

[eljr]

eljr
Swerd gets a lot of credit in my book for introducing me to the idea of buying a speaker built by a guy I'd never heard of in a way I'd never done before. I've had my Songtowers just about a year now and before I made the purchase in January 2016, I'd never heard of them before nor had I ever considered the idea of buying something that expensive without seeing a lot of them in stores etc etc.

Fast forward a year (I ordered in January but didn't get them til June) and I'm about as happy a speaker owner as can be. In Swerds descriptive pieces, he does a great job of explaining why he loves the sound, the construction, and the materials. I can't add anything to that except a second witness and a very enthusiastic one at that. I have them in a dedicated room for music and while the room may be imperfect, the Songtowers make the place come alive.

I've been loving music all my life and trying to perfect my sound for most of my adult life. I've always been a bit disappointed with my systems and sometimes a lot disappointed with what I was able to achieve for sound. No more disappointment. The number one achievement with the Salks is I absolutely love the sound, the gorgeous cabinetry, and the impression they make on visitors to my little music emporium.

Another way to express my enjoyment is the new music I'm learning to enjoy simply based on the quality of what comes out of the speakers. Before the Salks, I didn't listen to much jazz at all. Now, those horns and arrangements sound so good I've added tons of jazz to my collection. That's not all. Today, I spent 2 hours with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. It was awesome. I don't think I've ever listed to more than 20 minutes of an orchestra before.

I'm only 1 year in where Swerds 10 years in to the experience. But, I'm as enthusiastic about the sound as the day they rolled in.

Thanks very much for the great reply. Which speakers did you own previous and what others do you presently have additionally (if any)?

 

[eljr]

If you notice early on in this thread I echoed Swerd's comments. We bought our Song Towers around the same time, though I picked mine up at Jim's and didn't have to wait for shipping. That was my first foray into Salk speakers. I added some Song Surround I's and a center channel as I could afford them. I've departed from Salk speakers a few times with ventures into British speakers, but have always come back to Salk. I'm on my third pair of SongTowers, these with the RAAL tweeter, though I prefer the soft dome (Jim had them available when I was looking so rather than wait I went with them). They're in my 3.1 HT setup along with a matching center. I just recently bought a pair of Song3 Encores for my 2 channel setup. Bottom line is I always come back to Jim's speakers after being 'seduced' by other speaker. They are just the most listenable speakers I've ever owned. Sure, some of the other speakers excelled in one area over the Salk's I've had, but for overall top to bottom speaker performance they're my favorite.

Can I also ask you, what speaker did you have previous or also now?

thanks

 

[eljr]

@eljr

I'm the same guy as R Swerdlow on the AVS Speaker forum. To answer your questions directly, yes I always enjoyed my SongTowers since getting them in 2007. Last summer (2017),instead of selling them, I gave them to my son, who has them now.

I had those SongTowers from 2007 until I replaced them with Salk Veracity ST speakers in 2016. That story has a separate thread, A Salk fan-boy takes action.

Much of the first 6 or 7 pages is about ordering them and waiting. I believe there are photos on page 6. To skip that, go to page 7 post #128. Also see posts #133, 140, and especially #142:

I think it's safe to say YES, the Veracity ST (VST) is a noticeable step up from the standard dome tweeter SongTower (ST).​

​

Both speakers’ sound resembles each other more than they differ, especially across the whole mid range. Overall, the VST shares the balance of the ST – it isn't brighter sounding than the ST. These are the differences I've noticed:​

• The VST has a cleaner, more detailed sound, perhaps because it distorts less.
• The VST has lower bass, 33-34 Hz vs. 40 Hz in the ST.
• The VST has a very clean sounding ribbon tweeter. I’ve heard this enough to be sure it is better sounding than the excellent dome of the ST. Not all music allows me to pick this feature out, but on the right tracks it becomes easy to tell the difference. Imagine a fault-free tweeter.
• The VST is slightly less sensitive, but overall seems to have bit larger dynamic range than the ST.
• The ST has slightly warmer sounding upper bass/lower mid range. This is pleasant sounding, not an undesirable coloration. I was never aware of it before comparing it directly to the VST.

Now comes the hard question, is the difference worth the extra cost? For me, YES, but others will have to answer that for themselves.​

​

I'm in Gaithersburg, Md. If that's close to you, you are welcome to come hear them. Send me a PM.​

Throughout this thread you may notice mention of a Dennis Murphy. He not only designs the crossovers for nearly all of the Salk speakers, he is also runs his own small Internet Direct speaker company, Philharmonic Audio. The SongTower and all it's variations were his ideas. Dennis lives about 15 miles away from me, and I've known him since about 2004. In that thread, I mentioned that he came over later in the summer of 2016 to see and hear the new Veracity STs.

Why Salk and not Murphy?

You are just above Rockville?

 

[oldgoalie33]

I'm not sure if you want Salk or the British models, so I'll list both.

Salk: HT 1 (with a prototype RAAL tweeter), Songbirds (dome tweeter), Soundscape 8's, and now Song3 Encores.

British: Harbeth P3ESR, Harbeth Compact 7-ES3's, and Graham Audio LS 5/9's.

 

[2channel lover]

Thanks very much for the great reply. Which speakers did you own previous and what others do you presently have additionally (if any)?

For me.

Salk Song3-A...Dec 2017 to present.

B&W 804M...1996- present, gifting to son).

Linn...bookshelf...1983 to 1996, sold.

 

[eljr]

I keep checking back here to see if eljr has responded. He seems to have done his homework on new speakers in general, and I think he understands what he wants. He also seems to be acting deliberately and slowly, as opposed to impulsively.

I once had a wife, a most beautiful one at that. She would say to me, "ELJR, if I were ever kidnapped I know what you would do. First you would go to the library and research the situation. You would then go home and process everything. Then you would come up with the perfect plan.
Problem is, by the time you did all this, I'd be dead!"

So yeah, I am studied and deliberate. Inefficiently so.

I have a several concerns holding me back.

First is that I simply don't need any speakers.

Second, I have speakers that are more expensive and much more expensive than the one's I am considering . So I am a bit concerned I won't get a "different" sound. I am not worried about better. (hence my questions to posters as to what speakers then have used in the past, everything is relative)

The good part is, I have decided on how to indulge this "want."

I have a second home, an apartment in Raleigh. It's a perfect excuse to buy some bookshelves. So at least I have decided that much. If I get something it will be for a small space not my office or living room at home.

Right now I have a simple pair of PSB bookshelves down there. Great speaker for the price, my daughter loves the noise that they make. I was just glad to get them out of my office. Free up some room. lol

Then there is the time lag coupled with paying half up font. Maybe because I am a New Yorker but giving someone their profit up front is something I was quite literally taught to never do.

Yes, posters as yourself being so happy helps but I also read about time delays getting longer which also leaves me to extrapolate. (Think about it)

Right now, thanks to Gene, I am thinking about the Silk Monitors.
Defiantly electric blue.

I look at it like this.

Meantime, the local guy wants to give me a deal on some well received Monitor Audio bookshelves. Then I could use the extra cash to see Kronos and Jordi Savall....

 

[eljr]

For me.

Salk Song3-A...Dec 2017 to present.

B&W 804M...1996- present, gifting to son).

Linn...bookshelf...1983 to 1996, sold.

That B&W is highly regarded and more expensive so great to know you prefer the Song 3!

 

[oldgoalie33]

I was concerned about buying speakers with 50% up front as well, but if you've ever met Jim you won't need to worry. The only problem as you know is wait times. He's so slammed with orders that it's taking 3-6 months to finish a pair. I bought one of his demo pair, so no wait. It helps that I can drive to his shop too.

"That B&W is highly regarded and more expensive so great to know you prefer the Song 3!"

The Graham's I had were more $$ than the Song3 Encores too. Fabulous monitors, actually best I've ever heard and owned, but they can't reproduce bass below 50hz. Still, awesome speakers if that's what you're looking for.

 

[Swerd]

Why Salk and not Murphy?

You are just above Rockville?

Yes, I'm just NW of Rockville.

Why Salk and not Murphy? A good question. Until a few years ago when Dennis started his own speaker company Philharmonic Audio, the only way to get speakers with his 'voicing' was DIY, Salk, or Ellis Audio. I had built some of Dennis's DIY designs and loved them. I also had Dennis design new crossovers for some much older JBL L100A speakers I owned (see this thread).

In late 2006, I first heard a DIY floor standing MTM speaker at Dennis's house. It was the first prototype that became the SongTower. Even though it had some flaws (Dennis was in the process of fixing them) I loved it. In the next half a year, I debated with myself about getting them. I originally had planned to build them, but Dennis never made the plans public. Instead, he persuaded Jim Salk to sell them – they became a big success. I heard the, now finished, prototypes again in the spring of 2007 and soon decided I had to buy them. I kept dreaming about them at night! When Jim Salk announced them in the summer of 2007, I realized what I had to do – order a pair.

When I got them and saw how beautifully the cabinets were built and finished, I realized how I never could have built something as nice. All my DIY work has been limited to smaller 2-way bookshelf speakers. Jim's cabinet finishes are something to be seen. Photos on the internet just don't convey how good they look. I've never seen any commercially made or home made furniture come close.

Dennis decided his own speaker line, Philharmonic Audio, would not directly compete with Salk with regards to cabinet finishes and overall prices. They however do have identical sound quality. With my SongTowers and later the Veracity STs, I was interested in Salk's finishes.

 

[2channel lover]

That B&W is highly regarded and more expensive so great to know you prefer the Song 3!

Yeah, compared to the 20 yr 804s it wasn't a fair fight...

I did demo the 805, 804, 803 from the new D3 line prior to ordering the Song3a...the new D3 line sounds incredible, but the prices have literally taken me out of the 800 series. Performance wise...the 803 D3 imo is a true 2.0 speaker for music in almost any size room, no sub needed...but it's a $15k speaker!! The 804 D3 (nice, but the low end left me wanting (it's $9k!!)...the RAAL tweeter imo is smooth yet it has the sizzle. Cymbals sound like cymbals regardless of the volume. The diamond tweeter in the B&W has been made hotter over the years...imo it's little more edgy, more splashy sounding especially when pushed hard.

The mids...I've always loved the B&W mids...until I heard mids that were more transparent you better understand why some people refer the B&W as "warm".

The Salks imo really do try to get out of the way and let the recording come thru.

 

[2channel lover]

Yes, I'm just NW of Rockville.

Why Salk and not Murphy? A good question. Until a few years ago when Dennis started his own speaker company Philharmonic Audio, the only way to get speakers with his 'voicing' was DIY, Salk, or Ellis Audio. I had built some of Dennis's DIY designs and loved them. I also had Dennis design new crossovers for some much older JBL L100A speakers I owned (see this thread).

In late 2006, I first heard a DIY floor standing MTM speaker at Dennis's house. It was the first prototype that became the SongTower. Even though it had some flaws (Dennis was in the process of fixing them) I loved it. In the next half a year, I debated with myself about getting them. I originally had planned to build them, but Dennis never made the plans public. Instead, he persuaded Jim Salk to sell them – they became a big success. I heard the, now finished, prototypes again in the spring of 2007 and soon decided I had to buy them. I kept dreaming about them at night! When Jim Salk announced them in the summer of 2007, I realized what I had to do – order a pair.

When I got them and saw how beautifully the cabinets were built and finished, I realized how I never could have built something as nice. All my DIY work has been limited to smaller 2-way bookshelf speakers. Jim's cabinet finishes are something to be seen. Photos on the internet just don't convey how good they look. I've never seen any commercially made or home made furniture come close.

Dennis decided his own speaker line, Philharmonic Audio, would not directly compete with Salk with regards to cabinet finishes and overall prices. They however do have identical sound quality. With my SongTowers and later the Veracity STs, I was interested in Salk's finishes.

That last sentence sums it up for me as well. I didn't have the footprint space nor WAF for the Phil3s.

That said, I'm probably going to update my rears some day and the Philharmonitor or the Mini Phil will probably get the call.

 

[Swerd]

I once had a wife, a most beautiful one at that. She would say to me, "ELJR, if I were ever kidnapped I know what you would do. First you would go to the library and research the situation. You would then go home and process everything. Then you would come up with the perfect plan.
Problem is, by the time you did all this, I'd be dead!"

So yeah, I am studied and deliberate. Inefficiently so.

I'm glad you have your priorities straight. You might be deliberate and methodical if the kidnappers took your wife… but if they took your speakers, you'd be hot on their trail with rusty razor blades and a sawed off shotgun.

I have a several concerns holding me back.

First is that I simply don't need any speakers.

A flimsy excuse, at best . Been there myself. You know how that worked out.

Second, I have speakers that are more expensive and much more expensive than the one's I am considering . So I am a bit concerned I won't get a "different" sound. I am not worried about better. (hence my questions to posters as to what speakers then have used in the past, everything is relative).

The good part is, I have decided on how to indulge this "want."

I've said this before, but you might find it very helpful to talk about this with Jim Salk on the phone. He understands audiophiles and all the ways they manifest symptoms of "Audiophilia Nirvana Nervosa". He absolutely will not try to persuade you to buy up into higher priced models. If there is something common among Salk speaker owners, besides loving their speakers, it would be how they all agree that doing business with Jim Salk is positive experience.

Ask him about the Silk Monitors as well. I haven't heard them so I can't comment.

Also ask him if he can put you in contact with other Salk owners who live in your area. He maintains a list of those who are willing to do this. If you find yourself in the Maryland or Virginia area, you are welcome to come hear my speakers.

With regard to overall sound quality, I can say that all of Dennis Murphy's speakers share a common voicing. They all have a flat frequency response, no dips or nasty resonances, especially across the all important mid range. They also have an overall neutral balance, no bass overemphasis or bright sounding treble. In all of Dennis's crossovers, he specializes in creating roll-off curves that have smooth 4th order (might be some exceptions) slopes where the roll-off curves of each driver are symmetrical with each other. He does this so the drivers remain, as much as possible, in phase with each other. This results in a wide off-axis response that creates remarkable imaging and, in stereo, a large and convincingly real sounding sound stage. I haven't heard any other speakers that do this as well.

 

[Bucknekked]

[QUOTE="Swerd, post: 1249793, member: 5544" If there is something common among Salk speaker owners, besides loving their speakers, it would be how they all agree that doing business with Jim Salk is positive experience.
Also ask him if he can put you in contact with other Salk owners who live in your area. He maintains a list of those who are willing to do this. .[/QUOTE]
@eljr

I agree with Swerd, Jim Salk isn't such a titan of industry you can't get him on the phone. He's a real guy and I was able to jetison my fear of handing over 1/2 the funds after a simple conversation. On the second idea, getting an audition in the home of a Salk owner, I asked Jim Salk to arrange one here in Arizona and he did so very quickly. I was able to listen to a set of Songtowers in the home of a proud owner and play all the music I wanted. Imagine the loyalty to a product to allow strangers to come in to your home and listen to tunes.

 

[KEW]

eljr, where are you located?
I know people have flown to audition speakers at Jim's house!
However, if you were to start threads in some of the various audio forum titled "Will anyone let me hear their Salk speakers in or near the ____ area?", I think you are likely to get a response. Don't be cryptic with your post or people might worry that it is a scam (although it would be very strange to only target people with Salk speakers, lol).
Alternately, I suspect a pair of Dennis Murphy's BMR's would make a great replacement for the office space in Raleigh and would have similar sound signature (but still not the same character as a larger full-range speaker).

What type of music do you listen to?
Dennis (who is the person most directly responsible for the sound of Salk speakers) plays Viola, and I can attest that his abilities combined with world class drivers do an absolutely wonderful job with strings, and indeed, all acoustic instruments (including vocals)! They will blow you away!
However, I would also note that if Electronica is what you listen to, they are still great speakers, but will no longer stand out as "a cut above" other great speakers, IMHO!
I don't want to give you the wrong impression, I recently listened to some Rush at a friends house on Philharmonic 3's by Dennis, and their ability to clearly present each hit of each note with such openess (despite how crowded/fast the notes come) is amazing, and the balance and distinct clearness of the bass made me immediately start asking what he had involved in his bass (turned out all 3 of his subs were disabled - just the Phils)!
Nonetheless (and this may simply be a psycho-acoustic bias on my part) it is with acoustic instruments that these speakers make me think "it just doesn't get any better"!

 

[eljr]

I am in NYC suburbs, first farm out of Manhattan. Seriously, lol.

I truly am an eclectic listener. (I hate when people say that!!!!!!, but I really am)
Today alone I have listened to Chant, Choral, Orchestral, Chamber and now threw on Zeppelin 4 and now 2, really loud, with both subs.

BUT
When in Raleigh I will listen pretty much exclusively to classical although I seem to love ribbons for blue grass music and I am sure I will at least try some out.
Plus, my daughter may well use them more than I. Mostly popular sounds.

 

[everettT]

What ever speaker you decide on I'd make sure its flat from 200hz to 20khz+. Then you can tailor the sound via eq to your liking. Starting out with a speaker that isnt, is a PIA

 

[KEW]

When in Raleigh I will listen pretty much exclusively to classical although I seem to love ribbons for blue grass music and I am sure I will at least try some out.
Plus, my daughter may well use them more than I. Mostly popular sounds.

Sounds like you are on the right path, to me.

 

[Swerd]

I am in NYC suburbs, first farm out of Manhattan. Seriously, lol.

I truly am an eclectic listener. (I hate when people say that!!!!!!, but I really am)
Today alone I have listened to Chant, Choral, Orchestral, Chamber and now threw on Zeppelin 4 and now 2, really loud, with both subs.

BUT
When in Raleigh I will listen pretty much exclusively to classical although I seem to love ribbons for blue grass music and I am sure I will at least try some out.
Plus, my daughter may well use them more than I. Mostly popular sounds.

It may interest you to know that Dennis Murphy, a retired economist and very active speaker builder & designer, is also an active classical musician. He plays violin, viola, and piano and is active in a Washington DC area semi-pro symphony orchestra (Washington Metropolitan Philharmonic, he is 2nd principal viola), a Tango orchestra or two, among other groups. He prefers classical music and unamplified non-studio recordings over heavily produced studio recordings. Because he sells speakers to people with a variety of tastes, he is used to listening to what they like. His home, the HQ for Philharmonic Audio and also the R&D lab for Salk, is a speaker junkies delight. People in the area often come to hear his speakers. I stop by every so often just to hear what's new. If you ever pass through the area, I recommend going there.