Impressions of Salk SongTowers

Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
I saw that video before. The guy seems to really like showing off his turntable.

Apparently, the common complaint about his video reviews is they all sound the same.
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Samurai
And the requisite follow up question: What frequency do you set the crossover between the SB-2000 and the SongTowers?
Richard
As the proud owner of a work order to produce a pair of Songtowers, can you net out this conversation about marrying subwoofers and Songtowers? I was proceeding along the path that I would not need a sub in my little music room.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Richard
As the proud owner of a work order to produce a pair of Songtowers, can you net out this conversation about marrying subwoofers and Songtowers? I was proceeding along the path that I would not need a sub in my little music room.
For your case, music in a small room, I see little or no benefit from using a sub woofer with STs. Others may have different preferences. For home theater use, STs probably should be used with a sub.

I'm not sure what you mean by "net out".
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Samurai
For your case, music in a small room, I see little or no benefit from using a sub woofer with STs. Others may have different preferences. For home theater use, STs probably should be used with a sub.
I'm not sure what you mean by "net out".
swerd:
you did an admirable job of "netting out" the discussion. A euphemism for taking a gross amount of information and reducing it to a smaller, net, piece of content. Or, similarly, taking a net and taking a small fish out of a big piece of water. Sometimes our expressions and acronyms make communication more difficult rather than eaiser.

You netted out what I needed to hear :)
 
jp_over

jp_over

Full Audioholic
Buck,

I've owned SongTowers (standard) since 2011 and concur with Swerd - no sub needed for music IMO.
 
Ponzio

Ponzio

Audioholic Samurai
if the ST's are going into the 10'x10' room u shouldn't need a sub but from my experience in my 14'x14' room I'm glad I added a sub. just seems to open up the sound stage and gives me some more slam. ur mileage may vary.
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Samurai
if the ST's are going into the 10'x10' room u shouldn't need a sub but from my experience in my 14'x14' room I'm glad I added a sub. just seems to open up the sound stage and gives me some more slam. ur mileage may vary.
We shall see, we shall see. Thats the great thing about upgrades, the anticipation.
 
eljr

eljr

Audioholic General
I have been listening to my new SongTower QWT speakers for about a month. They are new MTM speakers in a floor standing transmission line cabinet, designed by Dennis Murphy, built and sold by Salk Signature Sound. Here are some photos.

When describing the sound of new speakers, I should mention what speakers I previously used. This has an important influence on what I notice about the new speakers. My old speakers were vintage 3-ways, JBL L-100s that were greatly improved by new crossovers. The original L-100s were highly popular and highly flawed speakers from the 1970s. Aware of some of these flaws, I took them to Dennis Murphy for testing and redesign. Dennis kept the existing drivers and designed a totally new crossover that greatly improved the glaring bright sound of these speakers. If anyone is interested in more details about this, read the link in my signature line. It is a good illustration of just how important a crossover can be.

The 14" wide JBL cabinet contains a 12" woofer, a 5" midrange, and 1½" cone tweeter. As modified, the crossovers are about 950 Hz and 5,000 Hz. As a result of these rather high crossover frequencies, there is considerable beaming by the woofer and midrange drivers, as well as the rather large tweeter.

In contrast, the SongTowers come in a much narrower 8" wide cabinet, with two 5" midwoofers and a ¾" dome tweeter. The single crossover point is about 2.6 kHz. Dispersion is extremely wide and smooth. These speakers image beautifully.

Imaging
Although standard frequency response curves can’t directly show how wide a speaker’s dispersion is, several of these curves measured with the microphone placed at various off-axis positions can indicate this. The attached figure compares SongTower frequency response measured on axis and 60° off axis. Below 10 kHz, the two curves are very close to each other. This excellent off-axis performance means great dispersion and is a major reason why SongTowers create superb imaging. Most other speaker manufacturers don’t show off-axis response. Those few that do usually show response curves measured at 15° or 30° off-axis.

Compare this to the on and off axis frequency response of the well received Ascend Sierra-1 speakers (scroll down to the 2nd graph). At 30° and 45° off axis, the response of its 5" woofer drops in the 1-2 kHz range, and the 1" tweeter response drops off well below 10 kHz. I’m don’t mean to unfairly single out the Sierra-1 – I only do this because Ascend Acoustics is one of the few speaker manufacturers that show these graphs in similar detail for its products.

With my old JBL speakers, I was used to a sweet spot in the center of my sofa, about one sofa cushion wide. With the SongTowers, the sweet spot covers nearly the whole sofa!

I often think of imaging for speakers as that “out of the box sound”. Instead of sounding like little musicians sitting inside speaker cabinets, speakers that image well create the illusion that the musicians have climbed out of the speaker cabinets and are sitting in your room. It reminds me of those impossibly tiny cars I saw at the circus as a kid, that would drive up and spew out 15 clowns. The last clown out usually leaned in the open door and said “we’ll meet up with the rest of you guys later”. So if you rate speakers’ imaging ability by how many clowns climb out, I’ll give the SongTowers a score of 30+ clowns. (Note, my clown/image rating scale has no upper limit.)

Midrange & Treble
I have so far focused on imaging, but the frequency response curves also make it clear that the SongTowers have essentially a flat response across the entire audio spectrum. The SongTowers sound neutral, clear, and transparent. They are neither laid back nor too bright, neither veiled nor etched sounding. They stand out by doing nothing wrong. To some, this may seem like faint praise, because many of us have heard speakers, with a flat frequency response, that sound lifeless. The SongTowers stand out because they do all this while maintaining a sense that the music is live in the room where I sit.

Linear response refers to a speaker’s ability to respond to increasingly more powerful signals by generating louder tones in proportion to the original signals. Every speaker has an upper and lower limit to its linear response range. The SongTowers have an extremely wide linear response range which adds to their ability to image well at low volume as well as high. In my old speakers, high volume was required to hear good imaging. The more I listen to the SongTowers, the greater I appreciate this unexpected feature.

Bass
The SongTowers’ bass is startlingly good. I can’t say this enough. The SongTowers’ bass is startlingly good. And I’m comparing it to JBL speakers with 12" woofers that were famous (or infamous) for bass response. Just how do two 5" drivers keep up with one 12" woofer with a huge alnico magnet and 3" voice coil made with edgewound copper ribbon? The answer is the transmission line cabinet design.

Properly designed transmission line cabinets allow significantly greater bass extension than either sealed or ported cabinets would allow for the same woofers. In the SongTowers, these 5" woofers produce bass down to below 40 Hz. In a smaller ported cabinet, one of these same 5" drivers can only deliver bass to 50 or 55 Hz. (This is the Dennis Murphy 2-way DIY design that I built about two years ago that started me on the quest for better sounding speakers.) The transient responses of small woofers (the speed at which they start and stop making sound) are much faster that those of larger heavier woofers. This difference is easily audible, and is often spoken of as “fast bass”. The air inside SongTower cabinets actively participates in producing bass from below 40 Hz to above 125 Hz. It is louder than a sealed or ported cabinet would be with the same woofers, and if suitable small woofers are used, as in the SongTowers, the bass transients are fast.

Transmission lines create louder and deeper bass by coupling the rearward woofer motion to a large column of air inside the cabinet, and allowing this energized air to move freely out of large openings. An additional benefit of this is improved midrange clarity because eliminating internal back wave reflections results in less midrange interference. In most other cabinet designs, these woofer back waves are largely absorbed or suppressed. It makes me wonder how much low frequency energy is wasted by these designs. The only way they can generate good bass is by brute force.

So, how do they sound? Jim Salk describes the SongTowers at his website as follows:

• The driver dispersion and the slim cabinet combine to offer superb imaging
• The soundstage is deep and wide with instruments and vocals precisely located.
• The top end is lush and detailed – just what you'd expect from the exceptional Hiquphon OWII tweeter
• Midrange is detailed and accurate. Voices are rendered with realism.
• The TL cabinet results in very impressive bass extension considering the design uses 5" midwoofers.

In my honest opinion as an owner, this isn’t just slick marketing language; it’s the best description I’ve seen of how the SongTowers sound. Considering the first rate quality of the cabinet construction and finish, I don’t know how he does this for $1,500. See this example of the Salk cabinet construction process. The speaker shown, the Salk HT-3, is much more complex to build than the SongTower, but the care and quality are similar.
Some of you may have noticed a repeating theme here – that I have three pairs of speakers designed (at least in part) by Dennis Murphy: the CAOW1 2-ways, the rebuilt JBL L-100s, and the SongTowers. If you call me a Dennis Murphy fanboy, I’m guilty as charged. I have to wonder why everyone else doesn’t own speakers he has designed – they sound that good.
Saw from 2007, 10 years ago.

I was wondering what your thoughts are now.

Do you still have these. Still enjoy them?

If not what do you have now and why did you get rid of these Salk's?

Thanks
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
@eljr

I'm the same guy as R Swerdlow on the AVS Speaker forum. To answer your questions directly, yes I always enjoyed my SongTowers since getting them in 2007. Last summer (2017),instead of selling them, I gave them to my son, who has them now.

I had those SongTowers from 2007 until I replaced them with Salk Veracity ST speakers in 2016. That story has a separate thread, A Salk fan-boy takes action.

Much of the first 6 or 7 pages is about ordering them and waiting. I believe there are photos on page 6. To skip that, go to page 7 post #128. Also see posts #133, 140, and especially #142:

I think it's safe to say YES, the Veracity ST (VST) is a noticeable step up from the standard dome tweeter SongTower (ST).​
Both speakers’ sound resembles each other more than they differ, especially across the whole mid range. Overall, the VST shares the balance of the ST – it isn't brighter sounding than the ST. These are the differences I've noticed:​
  • The VST has a cleaner, more detailed sound, perhaps because it distorts less.
  • The VST has lower bass, 33-34 Hz vs. 40 Hz in the ST.
  • The VST has a very clean sounding ribbon tweeter. I’ve heard this enough to be sure it is better sounding than the excellent dome of the ST. Not all music allows me to pick this feature out, but on the right tracks it becomes easy to tell the difference. Imagine a fault-free tweeter.
  • The VST is slightly less sensitive, but overall seems to have bit larger dynamic range than the ST.
  • The ST has slightly warmer sounding upper bass/lower mid range. This is pleasant sounding, not an undesirable coloration. I was never aware of it before comparing it directly to the VST.
Now comes the hard question, is the difference worth the extra cost? For me, YES, but others will have to answer that for themselves.​
I'm in Gaithersburg, Md. If that's close to you, you are welcome to come hear them. Send me a PM.​

Throughout this thread you may notice mention of a Dennis Murphy. He not only designs the crossovers for nearly all of the Salk speakers, he is also runs his own small Internet Direct speaker company, Philharmonic Audio. The SongTower and all it's variations were his ideas. Dennis lives about 15 miles away from me, and I've known him since about 2004. In that thread, I mentioned that he came over later in the summer of 2016 to see and hear the new Veracity STs.
 
Last edited:
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Samurai
Saw from 2007, 10 years ago.

I was wondering what your thoughts are now.

Do you still have these. Still enjoy them?

If not what do you have now and why did you get rid of these Salk's?

Thanks
eljr
Swerd gets a lot of credit in my book for introducing me to the idea of buying a speaker built by a guy I'd never heard of in a way I'd never done before. I've had my Songtowers just about a year now and before I made the purchase in January 2016, I'd never heard of them before nor had I ever considered the idea of buying something that expensive without seeing a lot of them in stores etc etc.

Fast forward a year (I ordered in January but didn't get them til June) and I'm about as happy a speaker owner as can be. In Swerds descriptive pieces, he does a great job of explaining why he loves the sound, the construction, and the materials. I can't add anything to that except a second witness and a very enthusiastic one at that. I have them in a dedicated room for music and while the room may be imperfect, the Songtowers make the place come alive.

I've been loving music all my life and trying to perfect my sound for most of my adult life. I've always been a bit disappointed with my systems and sometimes a lot disappointed with what I was able to achieve for sound. No more disappointment. The number one achievement with the Salks is I absolutely love the sound, the gorgeous cabinetry, and the impression they make on visitors to my little music emporium.

Another way to express my enjoyment is the new music I'm learning to enjoy simply based on the quality of what comes out of the speakers. Before the Salks, I didn't listen to much jazz at all. Now, those horns and arrangements sound so good I've added tons of jazz to my collection. That's not all. Today, I spent 2 hours with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. It was awesome. I don't think I've ever listed to more than 20 minutes of an orchestra before.

I'm only 1 year in where Swerds 10 years in to the experience. But, I'm as enthusiastic about the sound as the day they rolled in.
 
oldgoalie33

oldgoalie33

Junior Audioholic
If you notice early on in this thread I echoed Swerd's comments. We bought our Song Towers around the same time, though I picked mine up at Jim's and didn't have to wait for shipping. That was my first foray into Salk speakers. I added some Song Surround I's and a center channel as I could afford them. I've departed from Salk speakers a few times with ventures into British speakers, but have always come back to Salk. I'm on my third pair of SongTowers, these with the RAAL tweeter, though I prefer the soft dome (Jim had them available when I was looking so rather than wait I went with them). They're in my 3.1 HT setup along with a matching center. I just recently bought a pair of Song3 Encores for my 2 channel setup. Bottom line is I always come back to Jim's speakers after being 'seduced' by other speaker. They are just the most listenable speakers I've ever owned. Sure, some of the other speakers excelled in one area over the Salk's I've had, but for overall top to bottom speaker performance they're my favorite.
 
Last edited:
2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
eljr
Swerd gets a lot of credit in my book for introducing me to the idea of buying a speaker built by a guy I'd never heard of in a way I'd never done before. I've had my Songtowers just about a year now and before I made the purchase in January 2016, I'd never heard of them before nor had I ever considered the idea of buying something that expensive without seeing a lot of them in stores etc etc.

Fast forward a year (I ordered in January but didn't get them til June) and I'm about as happy a speaker owner as can be. In Swerds descriptive pieces, he does a great job of explaining why he loves the sound, the construction, and the materials. I can't add anything to that except a second witness and a very enthusiastic one at that. I have them in a dedicated room for music and while the room may be imperfect, the Songtowers make the place come alive.

I've been loving music all my life and trying to perfect my sound for most of my adult life. I've always been a bit disappointed with my systems and sometimes a lot disappointed with what I was able to achieve for sound. No more disappointment. The number one achievement with the Salks is I absolutely love the sound, the gorgeous cabinetry, and the impression they make on visitors to my little music emporium.

Another way to express my enjoyment is the new music I'm learning to enjoy simply based on the quality of what comes out of the speakers. Before the Salks, I didn't listen to much jazz at all. Now, those horns and arrangements sound so good I've added tons of jazz to my collection. That's not all. Today, I spent 2 hours with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. It was awesome. I don't think I've ever listed to more than 20 minutes of an orchestra before.

I'm only 1 year in where Swerds 10 years in to the experience. But, I'm as enthusiastic about the sound as the day they rolled in.
I'm barely 6 mos in with my Song3-As and my enthusiasm has only grown...not only new music, and new music formats, but I've opened up the archives and re-discovered CDs I haven't played in years

My room is a bit larger (18'x17'x9')...I ran the S3As 2.0 for several days...like them a lot, and some music (like some of the older jazz) it's not a lot of difference with or without the subs, but apparently I've become a bassaholic now...with the subs incorporated and blended in about 40...I the feel the bass as much as hear it, similar to a live experience.

So...10x10 room...need a sub? Probably not.
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Samurai
I

So...10x10 room...need a sub? Probably not.
do I need a sub in my little room? Nope.
Do I enjoy the heck out of it. Yessiree bob I do.
I enjoy feeling the energy when I choose the blast it.
Its one of those things I went back and forth with when I installed them.
With my previous Klipsch sub, I think I would have left the sub out. It didn't keep up with the Salks.
With the Monolith 10" sub, the choice was easy. Its a great match in my little room.
Necessary? nope. Tons of fun: yep.
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
do I need a sub in my little room? Nope.
Do I enjoy the heck out of it. Yessiree bob I do.
I enjoy feeling the energy when I choose the blast it.
Its one of those things I went back and forth with when I installed them.
With my previous Klipsch sub, I think I would have left the sub out. It didn't keep up with the Salks.
With the Monolith 10" sub, the choice was easy. Its a great match in my little room.
Necessary? nope. Tons of fun: yep.
Nice pick up!

I've got way more sub than I need...and I knew that when I made the choice...they are set +3db (post audyssey) and the volume control on each is about the 10 o'clock position...they never really bring attention to themselves until called upon, but they are beasts when they're called into action.

I had my 1st listening session with an old friend a couple of weeks ago. He wanted to come hear what I've been raving about. I played Santana Abraxas SACD, and Miles Davis, Round About Midnight, HDCD (24/100) and a couple of female vocals.

He was BLOWN away...he kept walking up to the center channel...I said it's not on Mike...the sound staging and clarity got to him. Now he wants to upgrade his audio system so he wants to bring his wife up to listen....we never even got the multi-ch stuff so I'll save that til the next time.
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Samurai
Nice pick up!

I've got way more sub than I need...and I knew that when I made the choice...they are set +3db (post audyssey) and the volume control on each is about the 10 o'clock position...they never really bring attention to themselves until called upon, but they are beasts when they're called into action.

I had my 1st listening session with an old friend a couple of weeks ago. He wanted to come hear what I've been raving about. I played Santana Abraxas SACD, and Miles Davis, Round About Midnight, HDCD (24/100) and a couple of female vocals.

He was BLOWN away...he kept walking up to the center channel...I said it's not on Mike...the sound staging and clarity got to him. Now he wants to upgrade his audio system so he wants to bring his wife up to listen....we never even got the multi-ch stuff so I'll save that til the next time.
in all the years I've been listening to the stereo phenomenon, the phantom center channel never ceases to amaze me. I know with technology these days its easy enough to put in a full time center channel and use available formats to force the center to "be real". But for me in my little corner of the world, the straight up two channel (plus a sub, nobody said I was a purist) is a marvel to hear when its setup correctly.

Like you, when I have people over for a listening visit, they always walk away shaking their heads and telling me the experience was incredible. In my own life, I can still recall the evening where I heard my first real stereo image of a live concert LP. It was life altering to suddenly see the sound spread out and deepen and all the things we associate with a stereo image. I think one of the reasons my visitors are so knocked out is they may never have heard a true stereo image before when listening to a speaker setup.

At any rate, I love what the Songtowers do.
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top