Immigration, or illegal entry?

[JoeE SP9]

Every single illegal who was demonstrating and in particular burning flags should be deported immediately. There was enough TV coverage to be able to find the burners. The rest should be deported as timely as possible. A fence should be built between the US and Mexico. Fence violaters should be shot on site. No warning required.
It's bad enough when American citizens burn the flag. When illegal foreign nationals do it they should face severe penalties. Deportation to their country of origin should be the least of the penalties. FWIW I am against the immigration of anyone. While we are at it we should stop allowing admission at our colleges to foreign nationals. Let them get their educations in their homeland. Every foreign student admitted to a US college takes the place of an American citizen. When hunger and poverty are eliminated here, then a small amount of controlled immigration may be allowed. America and its legal citizens first!

 

[annunaki]

Back on topic though, what do the illegals really want? Fortunately there is a surplus of jobs that americans don't want to do.

The reason Americans won't do the jobs, is because the class of people who used to do them (jobs) now lives on our tax dollars through Welfare and other various social programs. Essentially they are handed money for doing nothing. Make those people work for that money while giving the employers credits for hiring them, and that issue begins to fade.

 

[toquemon]

I've been reading all of your posts to have a general idea of what do americans think about us, the mexicans, invading your country.

This is a really difficult issue, because both countries are responsible. Mexico can't generate all the jobs needed and those that ordinary people can get, are bad paid. Imagine a person earning 1 dollar a day. I know, you americans, aren't guilty of that situation... But,

American economy was, for at least 100 years, sustained by slavery. The way I see it, illegal inmigrants are the modern slaves and THEY DO SUSTAIN YOUR ECONOMY. Because of the salary that is being paid to the illegals, WalMart (and other big companies) can offer lower prices.

Illegal inmigrants are important to your economy.

On the other hand, I think its divine justice that mexicans are invading all the south of the USA. That territory was from Mexico like 150 years ago...

This comment isn't intended to offend anyone, you can see it as a joke if you like.

 

[toquemon]

A fence should be built between the US and Mexico. Fence violaters should be shot on site. No warning required.

It's a shame that you think that way.

 

[muncybob]

annunaki has it correct...there would be no problem sustaining our economy if those that live on hand outs actually worked for their income. Social programs are needed and warranted for many people...but far too many others abuse the system...and it's the system that's at fault here. We need some leaders of this country to step up to the plate and change not only the welfare system but also the social security system.

I don't hold anybody at fault for wanting to live in the U.S., but what part of ILLEGAL don't they understand? My mother was an immigrant...she studied American history, etc. and waited for her chance to become a citizen...and this was at a time when she couldn't get ANY job because she was "foreigner"....but she still did it legally and pays her fair share to live here!

The way I see it a start to the solution is for somebody to run for office that will 1. secure our borders(all of them) 2. offer citizenship to the illegals in the U.S. and deport those that won't take the offer 3. Deport all the illegals in our prisons...and if their homeland won't take them back offer a country with a remote area(like Siberia) $$$ to construct a prison there and send the criminal illegals to those prisons along with ALL our current inmates that have life sentences with no chance of parole 4. Change welfare in all states to a minimal amount of time for free $$ and then make it mandatory for any able bodied recipient to work for their money(lots of trash to pick up along our interstates and highways! Once you expire the "free $$" period you can never get "free $$" again.

and anybody who fights the above proposals should be shot at high noon!

 

[rr2465]

Slavery?

The way I see it, illegal inmigrants are the modern slaves and THEY DO SUSTAIN YOUR ECONOMY. Because of the salary that is being paid to the illegals, WalMart (and other big companies) can offer lower prices.

Illegal inmigrants are important to your economy.

Come on dude - slavery? Cheap labor - yes. Slavery is a little strong. But I don't think you should blame the US for it. Correct me if I'm wrong but illegals are making a choice to come here to avoid a worse situation in Mexico.

A bigger question that I have is why are people protesting in the US - why don't they protest in Mexico for the crappy jobs, poor wages and lawlessness in the government? I don't understand illegals protesting while they are here and they are receiving better wages, healthcare and education without paying taxes and learning the language.

Just an interesting observation - on Monday here in San Diego (Illegal Immigrant Protest day) the freeways during rush hour were empty. And the hospital ER was empty. Interesting...

 

[toquemon]

Come on dude - slavery? Cheap labor - yes. Slavery is a little strong. But I don't think you should blame the US for it. Correct me if I'm wrong but illegals are making a choice to come here to avoid a worse situation in Mexico.

A bigger question that I have is why are people protesting in the US - why don't they protest in Mexico for the crappy jobs, poor wages and lawlessness in the government? I don't understand illegals protesting while they are here and they are receiving better wages, healthcare and education without paying taxes and learning the language.

Just an interesting observation - on Monday here in San Diego (Illegal Immigrant Protest day) the freeways during rush hour were empty. And the hospital ER was empty. Interesting...

They're protesting because some senators want to pass a law that will convert those 12 million of illegal inmigrants and their employers in criminals... and that's unfair.

I agree with you that they should be protesting here in Mexico because of the crappy jobs, but it isn't happening this way. I'm sorry.

Illegal Inmigrants are supporting US economy. That's a fact. They're at the bottom of the social pyramid, doing the jobs that you don't want to do.

 

[Mort Corey]

They're protesting because some senators want to pass a law that will convert those 12 million of illegal inmigrants and their employers in criminals... and that's unfair.

Since both parties are already breaking current laws, by definition, they are already criminals.

Mort

 

[markw]

This is not quite true.

They're at the bottom of the social pyramid, doing the jobs that you don't want to do.

Americans will do them but they demand a living wage. We'll do' em for at least $10/hr but your guys sneak in here, work for lower, and don't pay taxes and use our medical system for free, don't want to become citizens and then demand rights? I think not.

As it stands, I blame them for lowering the pay standards for the lower level American citizens. After all, why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?

If they want to assimilate into our country and play by our rules, well then, that's a different story.

If anything, this demonstration served to polarize the massses and, if I were you, I'd be concernecd about those armed masses on the southern border, on both sides.

 

[toquemon]

Americans will do them but they demand a living wage. We'll do' em for at least $10/hr but your guys sneak in here, work for lower, and don't pay taxes and use our medical system for free, don't want to become citizens and then demand rights?

That's precisely what the senators are trying to stop. They want to stop these people to become citizens and pay taxes like everybody else. Some americans think that mexicans (and other people) don't deserve citizenship.
That's a stupid thing to do, because, in some study, mexicans could help with as much as 15 billion of extra taxes, in the first place. I know that it isn't a lot of money (in comparison of what all the country is capable of generate in taxes) but it's something to begin with.

In times of globalization, the implementation of all of these laws and politics are a step backwards of what it supposed to be "the american dream" and the defense of civil rights, democracy, equality and all the other values of the American way of life.

 

[Johnd]

Illegal Inmigrants are supporting US economy. That's a fact. They're at the bottom of the social pyramid, doing the jobs that you don't want to do.

This is true. So we must figure out a way to do the jobs ourselves (US citizens), or allow work visas for those immigrants that want to do the work. It is a shame that the state wage is $5.00 per day, and many Mexicans are just earning $1.00 or $2.00 a day.

Nevertheless, do not fool yourself into believing that all 12 million Mexican illegals are productive members of society. The jails are holding a good number of them, so are the schools, as well as emergency hospital care. This is causing a huge drain on our system, and as we are not a socialist state, the economic burden lies with each state.

The next time Presidente Vincente Fox comments on the inadequacies of American Immigration Policy, I say: I agree...we should then adopt the Mexican way of treating illegals.

I do not mean to be trite or flippant. The are many social and economic injustices in Mexico, and as the US likes cheap manual labor, we have looked the other way for a number of years. Therefore, we need to strictly enforce our immigration policies in order to be fair to all immigrants; not only those from Mexico. We should also develop a plan to get some of the most desirable (whatever that is) illegals on the 7-12 year citizenship path.

And toquemon: Ignore the blatantly intolerant, racist remarks. There are fools everywhere, it is best to ignore them. They certainly don't speak for me, nor for the vast majority of Americans, who, I believe, are generally kind, tolerant and giving. Peace.

 

[rr2465]

Another scenario...

They're protesting because some senators want to pass a law that will convert those 12 million of illegal inmigrants and their employers in criminals... and that's unfair.

Ask all the other people who got in line and did wait to come into the US what fair is. They may not have liked the rules, but they played by them. Yeah, I feel sorry that the jobs down in Mexico aren't as good and I can understand why the illegal immigrants risk their lives to come over here - but unfortunately they are all breaking the existing law. And just opening up the border to everybody won't solve the problem.

Lets say that the US grants amnesty to all 12 million illegals already here. They're all paying taxes and getting minimum wage - maybe even learning english. Everybody is happy. What about the next wave of illegals who come over to undercut the ones that just got all these rights. Is that fair? The situation repeats itself? Our social services in So. Cal are just not set up to handle that burden - we can barely pay our teachers. I'm sorry - I've got nothing against Mexico or its citizens but we just can't be expected to solve your problems. We've got enough economic and social (not to mention foreign) problems of our own.

 

[toquemon]

. We've got enough economic and social (not to mention foreign) problems of our own.

Yes i know. The problem that i wanted to point out is that illegal migration is a very serious issue for both of our countries and I think that the attitude taken by some of your senators is mistaken. This problem won't be solved by shooting illegals at the border or by deporting everybody out. The problem will be solved by taking priority actions here in Mexico (creating well paid jobs) and in the USA (creating a flexible law for inmigrants and their families).

 

[Johnd]

Yes i know. The problem that i wanted to point out is that illegal migration is a very serious issue for both of our countries and I think that the attitude taken by some of your senators is mistaken. This problem won't be solved by shooting illegals at the border or by deporting everybody out. The problem will be solved by taking priority actions here in Mexico (creating well paid jobs) and in the USA (creating a flexible law for inmigrants and their families).

Agreed. But creating well paid jobs for all is no small undertaking. Even in the best of economic times. In the meantime, what to do? We cannot simply continue to allow illegal immigration. Nor can we allow unfettered legal immigration.

 

[rr2465]

Yes i know. The problem that i wanted to point out is that illegal migration is a very serious issue for both of our countries and I think that the attitude taken by some of your senators is mistaken. This problem won't be solved by shooting illegals at the border or by deporting everybody out. The problem will be solved by taking priority actions here in Mexico (creating well paid jobs) and in the USA (creating a flexible law for inmigrants and their families).

I agree with you for the most part. But I don't believe that 12 million illegals are going to be jailed, shot or deported - its just not gonna happen. So what options do we have here? We stop the bleeding of immigrants into the country (border security) and make them play by the rules. And we need better rules as well. And in the meantime we get our wonderful bureaucrats to find a solution for those already here - get them documented and paying some taxes inito the social system to start.

 

[annunaki]

I've been reading all of your posts to have a general idea of what do americans think about us, the mexicans, invading your country.

This is a really difficult issue, because both countries are responsible. Mexico can't generate all the jobs needed and those that ordinary people can get, are bad paid. Imagine a person earning 1 dollar a day. I know, you americans, aren't guilty of that situation... But,

American economy was, for at least 100 years, sustained by slavery. The way I see it, illegal inmigrants are the modern slaves and THEY DO SUSTAIN YOUR ECONOMY. Because of the salary that is being paid to the illegals, WalMart (and other big companies) can offer lower prices.

Illegal inmigrants are important to your economy.

On the other hand, I think its divine justice that mexicans are invading all the south of the USA. That territory was from Mexico like 150 years ago...

This comment isn't intended to offend anyone, you can see it as a joke if you like.

Better check your history. That area (Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Southern California) was owned an controlled by Hopi, Chumash, Zuni and Apache Indians 150 years ago, not by Native Mexicans. That is what ultra liberal types would like everyone to believe, but, is simply not true.

 

[annunaki]

Come on dude - slavery? Cheap labor - yes. Slavery is a little strong. But I don't think you should blame the US for it. Correct me if I'm wrong but illegals are making a choice to come here to avoid a worse situation in Mexico.

A bigger question that I have is why are people protesting in the US - why don't they protest in Mexico for the crappy jobs, poor wages and lawlessness in the government? I don't understand illegals protesting while they are here and they are receiving better wages, healthcare and education without paying taxes and learning the language.

Just an interesting observation - on Monday here in San Diego (Illegal Immigrant Protest day) the freeways during rush hour were empty. And the hospital ER was empty. Interesting...

The way I see it, is that the illegals are not staging the protests. Communistic type groups and possibly shady businesses hiring them are the organization behind these rallies. Why is it that illegal aliens feel they can demand rights from a country in which they do not belong?

 

[annunaki]

That's precisely what the senators are trying to stop. They want to stop these people to become citizens and pay taxes like everybody else. Some americans think that mexicans (and other people) don't deserve citizenship.
That's a stupid thing to do, because, in some study, mexicans could help with as much as 15 billion of extra taxes, in the first place. I know that it isn't a lot of money (in comparison of what all the country is capable of generate in taxes) but it's something to begin with.

In times of globalization, the implementation of all of these laws and politics are a step backwards of what it supposed to be "the american dream" and the defense of civil rights, democracy, equality and all the other values of the American way of life.

These laws are to protect the soveignty of our nation. We do not want our country becoming a Mexico. Nothing against Mexico, it is just that this is America and that is how it works. We speak english and have our own culture (what is not being watered down anyway). The Mexican people are a great people, family oriented, hardworking and determined. All good things that fit in well here.
I am not against immigration, if it is done legally. It is just that when a person immigrates to a country, they should do the follwoing out of respect of being allowed to immigrate:

A: Learn the Language

B: Learn the culture and history of said country

C: Follow the country's laws

D: Do not demand that special rights are due to oneself because they are an immigrant

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

In 1980, our federal and state prisons housed fewer than 9,000 criminal aliens. By the end of 1999, these same prisons housed over 68,000 criminal aliens. Today, criminal aliens account for over 29 percent of prisoners in Federal Bureau of Prisons facilities and a higher share of all federal prison inmates. These prisoners represent the fastest growing segment of the federal prison population. Over the past five years, an average of more than 72,000 aliens have been arrested annually on drug charges alone.

Incarceration of criminal aliens cost an estimated $624 million to state prisons (1999) and $891 million to federal prisons (2002), according to the most recent available figure from the Bureau of Justice Statistics.

Another good read discussing the high cost of cheap "ILLEGAL" labor.............
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

 

[mustang_steve]

Since we've been sorely missing Buckeye's posts here of late, how about this?

While immigration literally means "to move" or "go into", I submit, that certainly in 21st century America it has come to mean more than that. It means "legal immigration" by way of the INS.

Allow me to state for the record that we are all immigrants, even though the American Indian was here first. So we must treat Mexican "immigrants" with respect and dignity, and the issue of Mexican "immigration" with temperance, justice, fairness, equality, amongst other things. The Mexican immigration issue is being touted as a legal and political issue on the right, and a human rights issue on the left. I submit it is all of these: political, legal, ethical, social, religious, philosophical, economic, industrial. So it must be treated with the utmost importance.

The next time President Fox expresses his disdain for our treatment of this urgent issue, I submit we agree with him, and will therefore immediately adopt Mexico's immigration and non-citizen policies. Any thoughts?

So we should treat illegal mexican immigration different from say, asian or middle eastern illegal immigration? That's just inacceptable, and ultimately racist, as it is basically separating people by the color of their skin.

Oh, and it's "hispanic" not mexican. Just because Mexico is just south of us, does not mean everyone crossing that border is mexican.

Finally, what about legal immigrants? You know, the ones who came here legitimately, and studied their asses off to pass the tests to become a citizen? Allowing illegal immigrants to just waltz in and be allowed in is a slap in the face to these people.

I understand their desire to come in, but do it right.

Vicente Fox needs to worry more about the problems in his nation, rather than criticize us. Something about throwing stones in glass houses comes to mind here.

As for the final bit on illegal immigration....back in california, I saw plenty of asian illegals...and INS did do a few rounds of clean-up over there....so it's not just hispanics that are part of this. However, when the hispanic populace gets up about it, they forget that they aren't the only illegals.

Honestly, I find the whole thing a masterpeice of sick humor.