If I were to upgrade my towers, which one of these is the best deal?

[fuzz092888]

Just got an e-mail back from XTZ. They say all their prices are "per pc". So $800 price listing = $1600 per pair.

 

[nogaro]

Just got an e-mail back from XTZ. They say all their prices are "per pc". So $800 price listing = $1600 per pair.

Yes, I did too saying the same thing! Below is the thread the led me to believe it was $800/pr. In fact, I even had them in my cart and there was no pop-up saying it is only 1 pc. Either way, the pricing now is $1600/pr. Of course, I do get the pop-up for the 99.26 bookshelf too, so that pricing is for each piece as well, it would seem.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/loudspeakers/81757-about-buy-pair-xtz-99-36-a.html

 

[ousooner2]

That's odd....because I'm pretty sure they were $800/pr just a few weeks ago before I started talking them up. I was supposed to be a tester for some of their speakers/subs, but haven't heard a single thing back from them after a few emails.

 

[sawzalot]

Them a re a really good deal for $800 there has to be more than that in parts..
Damit now i want a pair, they will match my wharfedales perfectly... same basic shape...

I thought 800 per pair was quite a bargain so yes I inquired and they are in fact 800 per speaker plus shipping which will average 140 per pair as well so 1740.00 will bring them to your door. sawz.

 

[nogaro]

That's odd....because I'm pretty sure they were $800/pr just a few weeks ago before I started talking them up. I was supposed to be a tester for some of their speakers/subs, but haven't heard a single thing back from them after a few emails.

Yes, that was my impression too. At their current price, however, with the lack of information/measurements on them, it's a bigger risk than I'm willing to take. I'd rather wait for Philharmonic's new tower that Dennis is currently working on.

 

[monkish54]

Sorry, this one should work. Looking forward to hear your comments:

99 MKII-series | AVForums.com - UK Online

TBQH, I'm just learning about crossovers myself. I'm not too knowledgeable so I sent a friend a link to the thread. However, he hasn't been on in a few days, so i'll attempt to answer this myself, and when he get's back he can correct me and add information.

I know that you deal with cone breakup with a Parallel Notch Filter (AKA LCR filter). I did a little digging, and it appears a Notch Filter tames peaks by lowering impedance. So it appears when they said

The breakup behavior of the SEAS Excel driver is handled perfectly with the new low impedance nodes in the filter.

they were simply talking about a Notch Filter.

You can read a little bit about Notch Filters:

HERE

HERE

and

HERE

Hopefully in a short time I'll be an audio wizard and be able to answer questions like these with far more detail.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

For the record, I like B&W.

As long as they are hooked up to my dual Funk 18.0, my B&W sound great.

 

[monkish54]

For the record, I like B&W.

As long as they are hooked up to my dual Funk 18.0, my B&W sound great.

How loud are the 18's? Do they drown out the sound of the 800's?

To be fair, i'd rather own the 800's than anything Zu. At least B&W has SOME good engineering. The cabinet shape is excellent and the aesthetics are to die for.

 

[moves]

How loud are the 18's? Do they drown out the sound of the 800's?

I wish I could hear this because I've listen to th2 802s and the bass was insane. Have you had the chance to listen to both 800 and 802s and compare the bass between them? I am wondering if there is a difference.

 

[monkish54]

I wish I could hear this because I've listen to th2 802s and the bass was insane. Have you had the chance to listen to both 800 and 802s and compare the bass between them? I am wondering if there is a difference.

The B&W 802's bass drivers are equivalent to a single 11.5" driver (The 802 has 2 8" drivers)

The B&W 800's bass drivers are equivalent to a single 14" driver. (The 800 has 2 10" drivers.)

So, you might feel the bass with the 800 a bit more.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I wish I could hear this because I've listen to th2 802s and the bass was insane. Have you had the chance to listen to both 800 and 802s and compare the bass between them? I am wondering if there is a difference.

The 800 has a little more bass output than the 802. They both have solid bass. But neither one comes close to the Funk TSAD18.

I think the Orion and Phil3 have the same bass output as the 800.

The Salon2 has the most bass. But again, not even close to the Funk TSAD18.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

How loud are the 18's? Do they drown out the sound of the 800's?

I think the Funk are capable of drowning out just about any speakers if you let them. But I keep them leveled just right.

 

[monkish54]

Have you added the S-2EX to your list yet?

 

[WARMACHINE4444]

The M1 should be much more reveling than the B&W. That concentric driver is really awesome. TBQH, B&W's stuff is far from neutral. Just look at their $20,000 800D. The Nautilus looks very good though.



I'm gonna stick with my Philharmonic's for right now, fuzz. Although, i have been rather disappointed with them lately. You know, they have really slow bass. XD ; )

This might sound stupid, but is the 800D really far from neutral? I've never heard one. I'm also somewhat of a skeptic and don't believe everything i read, but I thought Abbey Road, Decca, Emi etc....studios all use B&W speakers and most classical albums are mastered using B&W?

Oh, I guess $1600 US isn't bad for the xtz speaker. Just not as insane deal as I thought now.

 

[monkish54]

This might sound stupid, but is the 800D really far from neutral? I've never heard one. I'm also somewhat of a skeptic and don't believe everything i read, but I thought Abbey Road

I don't know about most classical albums mastered with Bowers & Wilkins but they do have them at Abbey road...or at least say they do. Either way, it's marketing BS. B&W LOVES to advertise that they have speakers in Abbey Road. I don't blame them, it is a great marketing technique. So is the diamond tweeter. No offense to ADTG, but just because Abbey road uses the 800D doesn't mean it's neutral, it means Abbey road is a poor judge of speakers.***

Don't get me wrong, if you like B&W and you want to go with some new ones, there is no problem with that. I want you to get whatever makes you happy. But if you seek neutrality, i'd look elsewhere.

Just look at the measurements. Midrange playing through cone breakup, a not-so-flat on-axis, a TERRIBLE off axis. The 800D's cabinet is as good as it gets as far as diffraction goes, but that hardly makes up for the poor performance.

The woofers cross over to the midrange unit (fig.3, green trace) at around 370Hz, but the speaker is not as flat in the treble as I would have expected, there being a small peak evident at 3.5kHz, and a broad plateau between 7 and 15kHz.

Below 300Hz, this graph shows the sum of the individual nearfield responses, taking into account both acoustic phase and the differing distances of each radiator from a nominal farfield microphone position. Again, the boost in the upper bass is an artifact of the nearfield measurement condition. Under anechoic conditions, this speaker will offer full-range low frequencies. And again, the small peaks in the treble behavior can be seen.

Overall, the B&W 800 Diamond's measured performance suggests that its balance has been optimized by listening; the various small departures from neutrality tend to balance one another.

I'm not quite sure what:

the various small departures from neutrality tend to balance one another.

actually means, but at least JA acknowledges the speaker isn't neutral. Saying the copious lack of neutrality balances out to make a neutral speaker is really really strange (dumb??).

*** love you ADTG <3

 

[WARMACHINE4444]

I don't know about most classical albums mastered with Bowers & Wilkins but they do have them at Abbey road...or at least say they do. Either way, it's marketing BS. B&W LOVES to advertise that they have speakers in Abbey Road. I don't blame them, it is a great marketing technique. So is the diamond tweeter. No offense to ADTG, but just because Abbey road uses the 800D doesn't mean it's neutral, it means Abbey road is a poor judge of speakers.***

Don't get me wrong, if you like B&W and you want to go with some new ones, there is no problem with that. I want you to get whatever makes you happy. But if you seek neutrality, i'd look elsewhere.

Just look at the measurements. Midrange playing through cone breakup, a not-so-flat on-axis, a TERRIBLE off axis. The 800D's cabinet is as good as it gets as far as diffraction goes, but that hardly makes up for the poor performance.

I'm not quite sure what:



actually means, but at least JA acknowledges the speaker isn't neutral. Saying the copious lack of neutrality balances out to make a neutral speaker is really really strange (dumb??).

*** love you ADTG <3

Thanks for the graphs and informative response! Yeah, I'm not that too much of a fanB&W-oi lol i like to know the whole picture of things and tested measurements puts things in a more clear perspective.

 

[monkish54]

FanB&W-oi

LMFAO

I like to know the whole picture of things and tested measurements puts things in a more clear perspective.

Agreed. The B&W CM9 was the first "HI-FI" loudspeaker I ever listened to, and I loved it. I heard more and more speakers (including the 800D which I also liked) and then I heard the Salon 2. I then realized the Salon 2 was the first true HI-FI speaker I ever listened to. It was the first speaker I listened to where I finished the demo and said "I'd be incredibly happy to live with these." It really opened my eyes as to what good sound actually sounded like. Now that list includes:

TAD REFERENCE ONE
TAD COMPACT REFERENCE ONE
KEF BLADE
PIONEER S-1EX
PHILHARMONIC 2 (I'm sure you're incredibly surprised considering I DO own them. )
SALK SOUNDSCAPE 12

 

[WARMACHINE4444]

LMFAO



Agreed. The B&W CM9 was the first "HI-FI" loudspeaker I ever listened to, and I loved it. I heard more and more speakers (including the 800D which I also liked) and then I heard the Salon 2. I then realized the Salon 2 was the first true HI-FI speaker I ever listened to. It was the first speaker I listened to where I finished the demo and said "I'd be incredibly happy to live with these." It really opened my eyes as to what good sound actually sounded like. Now that list includes:

TAD REFERENCE ONE
TAD COMPACT REFERENCE ONE
KEF BLADE
PIONEER S-1EX
PHILHARMONIC 2 (I'm sure you're incredibly surprised considering I DO own them. )
SALK SOUNDSCAPE 12

Lol I wasn't sure if my jab would upset certain tech fans. I'm still a B&W fan of course. I would like to hear the cm line or n805/latest version.

Wow those Philharmonics look amazing! I'm guessing they sound adequate eh? Just kidding must sound out of this world! Your list is best of the best. The most expensive speakers I was researching that I could realistically afford are the PSB Synchrony two tower, PSB Platinum T6 tower or B&W equivalent or other brand....

I did have a look at ADTG pictures/video of his speakers!

 

[monkish54]

Wow those Philharmonics look amazing! I'm guessing they sound adequate eh? Just kidding must sound out of this world! Your list is best of the best. The most expensive speakers I was researching that I could realistically afford are the PSB Synchrony two tower, PSB Platinum T6 tower or B&W equivalent or other brand....

I did have a look at ADTG pictures/video of his speakers!

I very much enjoy them!! Here is what I had to say about them when I first received them:

Originally Posted by walter duque
When fuzz gets his Phils I am going to check them out, if they sound as good as the Salons I am getting in line myself and get a pair.

It depends what you mean by "As good as the Salon". Can they play as loud? No. Do they have as much bass? No. Do they have incredible resolution? Yes. I can hear every little detail. Do they make me smile when I listen? Yes. Would I rather have the Salon 2? No. They have some differences: Volume level & bass, but would it be worth it to me to opt for the Salon at an extra 20K? No, it would not. More bass and higher volume level aren't worth 20K to me. As for the bass, throw in a few subs and I have the extra bass. The bass on the Phils is very good. One 8" can't compete with three 8" though.

Just my .02

ADTG's opinion is much much much more valid. I've heard 5 or 6 different VERY nice speakers, but he lives with the Salon 2. To my experience, he's correct in saying they are very similar.

The PSB Synchrony Two looks to be a very nice speaker.

Specs

The specs are great. However, I'd still lean toward the M1 (although I think either choice would be good) simply because it's cheaper, the off-axis will probably be even better because it's a coaxial, and you need a receiver.

BTW, I keep saying you need a new receiver because yours is "OK" (read poop ) and I'd be afraid to have new speakers running on that thing. Not so much i'm worried it's going to explode but because it's a distortion box. It's rated +/- 3db from 20hz-20khz. For a receiver that is REALLY REALLY poor.

Look at the Marantz I suggested:

Marantz SR6004 Measurements and Analysis &mdash; Reviews and News from Audioholics

+/- 0.25db from 20hz-20khz. Plus, it'll support the 4ohm dips you find in the M1 and the 4ohm nominal load from the PSB's. I'd be very surprised if your Panasonic can handle most of the speakers you're looking at.

If I were you I would jump on that SR6004 ASAP because it's the last one. If you are confident/fairly certain you're going to upgrade, pop on it. Even before you decide on which speakers.

 

[slipperybidness]

Those "laser scans" are freaking cool. Awesome to be able to visualize cone breakup. Any idea what equipment was used to generate those pics?