If I were to upgrade my towers, which one of these is the best deal?

[Swerd]

Those "laser scans" are freaking cool. Awesome to be able to visualize cone breakup. Any idea what equipment was used to generate those pics?

Not sure if this answers your question, but have a look

Scanning Vibrometer System (SCN)

The long version is in one of the references at the bottom of the web page:

http://www.klippel.de/uploads/media/Klippel__Schlechter__Distributed_parameter.pdf

I skimmed through the intro and conclusions (I assume they got their math correct ). and could see how this analysis method could let a speaker designer see where a driver goes bad and provides a systematic method to measure the performance of various modifications and improvements.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Have you added the S-2EX to your list yet?

Nope. I don't know if I want to pay $4K for 2EX. Maybe the 4EX for $2K?

BTW I take no offense to any comments regarding B&W.

I enjoy my 802D2.

 

[GranteedEV]

I'm not quite sure what:

actually means, but at least JA acknowledges the speaker isn't neutral. Saying the copious lack of neutrality balances out to make a neutral speaker is really really strange (dumb??).

Well I think he's saying that there is an intentional frequency response dip right where the off-axis response has a flare-up. So he's assuming that these things cancel each other out. But I'm not sure that's how we hear.

The Soundfield Audio M1 looks like an awesome choice for OP

 

[WARMACHINE4444]

I very much enjoy them!! Here is what I had to say about them when I first received them:





The PSB Synchrony Two looks to be a very nice speaker.

Specs

The specs are great. However, I'd still lean toward the M1 (although I think either choice would be good) simply because it's cheaper, the off-axis will probably be even better because it's a coaxial, and you need a receiver.

BTW, I keep saying you need a new receiver because yours is "OK" (read poop ) and I'd be afraid to have new speakers running on that thing. Not so much i'm worried it's going to explode but because it's a distortion box. It's rated +/- 3db from 20hz-20khz. For a receiver that is REALLY REALLY poor.

Look at the Marantz I suggested:



+/- 0.25db from 20hz-20khz. Plus, it'll support the 4ohm dips you find in the M1 and the 4ohm nominal load from the PSB's. I'd be very surprised if your Panasonic can handle most of the speakers you're looking at.

If I were you I would jump on that SR6004 ASAP because it's the last one. If you are confident/fairly certain you're going to upgrade, pop on it. Even before you decide on which speakers.

Very much appreciated for your posts! Reading the listening comments regarding these high-end speakers is awesome. That Marantz got sum guts to pound and an insane sale price. I know my panny is the limiting factor in regards to best sound in a new upgrade tower.

Uh don't forget the synchrony is not what I can afford right now lol. I am kinda looking into the Arx forums about the A5. Looks like a killer tower for the price.

Got a day off tomorrow so I want to maybe go listen to whatever speakers I can try out. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

Well I think he's saying that there is an intentional frequency response dip right where the off-axis response has a flare-up. So he's assuming that these things cancel each other out. But I'm not sure that's how we hear.

The Soundfield Audio M1 looks like an awesome choice for OP

Thanks GranteedEV for your post and recommendation. It is intriguing to see a standmount, but it has an active woofer that enables fullrange sound from it?!

Thanks to everyone for their helpful posts!

 

[gtpsuper24]

I am kinda looking into the Arx forums about the A5. Looks like a killer tower for the price.

Got a day off tomorrow so I want to maybe go listen to whatever speakers I can try out. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

Jump over at the Arx forum and post. Might be able to find an Arx owner close by that would perhaps let you demo their set. Or see what other brands owners have had that they compared to the A5s.

 

[WARMACHINE4444]

Jump over at the Arx forum and post. Might be able to find an Arx owner close by that would perhaps let you demo their set. Or see what other brands owners have had that they compared to the A5s.

Thanks for the suggestion, had read through the forum there last night about the A5 specifically. Seems like an awesome site and helpful. Getting more info about them too, especially when there are posts about the prototype set of towers!


So, went to go listen to speakers! Actually, only 3 different towers. Kept it simple and just wanted to get a feel for the sound they had. Everyone was super nice and setup or let me play whatever I wanted at the 3 stores.

Basically, all 3 sounded amazing. Pretty much blew away both my KLH towers and B&W bookshelf away lol. SIDE NOTE: I've never listened too or had my B&W's running on my Panasonic XR25, I don't have the stands for them anymore. My brother has the stands.

Played one of my fav CD's I listen to constantly and played only 2 tracks, when listening to each of the 3 towers.

Bela Fleck & The Flecktones LIVE ART

Track:1/2 INTRO/NEW SOUTH AFRICA [Starts off with the band walking up on stage from left to right before they start playing. Lot's of low bass and highs and great energy song.]

Track:4 LOCHS OF DREAD [Love this song, mixture of banjo, bluegrass, reggae, celtic, jazz, fusion! Lot's of low bass and highs.]



Monitor Audio RX6 - $1399 CDN Local Audio store

This was by far the most organized and clean setup system of the 3! Had a rack of NAIM components sitting in middle of the two RX6s.

Don't know exact model numbers, but it was a cd player and straight 2ch amp no gains adjustments pure direct etc. He moved the towers to this setup in a equilateral triangle while I sat a few feet away in a nice comfy luxurious leather home theater chair setup right in the middle! Looked like where all products are test demo'd for people.

This towers are tiny! Look way bigger in pics than in real life. Omg the soundstaging and presence these towers give off is amazing. The highs/trebles are very clear, clean and bright and forward. Which I like. The height, depth and width of the image was enormous. It was cranked a fair bit, and it just blew away my KLHs In comparison, my KLHs were way more laidback, had less revealing trebles/highs, way smaller soundstage, not as deep bass or impact etc. But, it's also components and room setup too. Amazing depth and hit/taut bass from the RX6. The dynamics and how loud and clean they are, is definetly a step up from my KLHs bounds. Is it worth $1300 CDN to me? Probably lol I don't know if my panny can sound as good as Naim, proly not. I thoroughly enjoyed the RX6s.

Had a look around the store too, talked to the guy a bit and looked at the top of the line Platinum PL200, didn't listen to them, but he said they are $9000 CDN LOL


Martin Logan Motion 40 - $2000 CDN Future Shop.

This was not the greatest place to listen to them. But the salesman was super nice and let me have a go at them. They were against a side wall display setup with a tv, bluray and the Motion 20 right beside the 40. Running off a Pioneer 1022 in direct 2ch mode. I unplugged the subwoofers rca cord running to it lol! The sub was playing, when I started the demo, since I couldn't find the power button on it, I unplugged rca.

These were a surprise and a disappointment. They had amazing soundstage/image. Was cranked really loud so the bass was very authoritative, deep and tight. The highs were more laidback than I thought they would be. Very crisp, clean and extended. Just not as bright or forward like the RX6s. They actually reminded me of my KLHs highs. I'm glad I got to hear the design of tweet they use. Although they provided way better soundstage/image than my KLHs, they didn't stand out as much as I thought they would in the highs. These were actually cranked louder than the RX6s, since I had the remote to the receiver! Hehe. Don't know if bass or treble controls were at 0, but it was on stereo pure direct. The MLs are a huge step up from my KLHs and B&Ws in terms of overall sound. But, I think my B&W's have more presence than the MLs, as in more forward, bright highs. I probably would not buy the MLs just cause I liked the highs more in the RX6s and my B&Ws more. At this price up here, I would probably look into other speaker brands. It's an amazing speaker, yes! It's just there preference in highs, I liked the sound of the RX6 more.


KEF Q700 - $1098/999/999-75bux off CDN Other local electronics store

Those were the prices the guy offered me, if I was going to buy before I left the store lol.

Again, not the most ideal setup. Huge room with a row of 3 home theater leather chairs facing wall off bookshelves/tower speakers. The KEFs were, I was afraid too far apart when sitting in the middle chair. But, when I started the demo, that didn't matter at all.

KEF being run off of a Onkyo TX-NR818. The guy put it in pure stereo, no subwoofer and I can't confirm if bass, treble was at 0. I totally wasn't even thinking about maybe I can hear a KEF, with the Uni-Q design! Omg this tower sounded insane. The highs/treble if not equaled, it sounded to me it was more forward, bright and had more extension in the highs than the RX6. It completely blew away the MLs for me. The bass was just as deep, tight and extended as the RX6 and ML. All 3 towers had amazing bass, considering all 3 were run off diff stuff.

I couldn't believe that this was only $1098 CDN. I was trying to remember the RX6s sound in the highs, and as I was listening on with the songs with the KEF I thought that these had a tiny more revealing treble, which was insane to me.

The super nice salesman, was encouraging me to make a decision to buy them today lol. That's why he offered me, 100bux off the sale price, to $999. Even brought the manager to offer it to me. Then, I said to him I can't decide right now, even though I really appreciated the offer. I have to decide and research other stuff etc. As I was leaving, he still offered 90day no interest payment, 30day return trial and he said he'd take another 75buxx off the $999.

I told him I wanted to research the KEF Q700 again, before I wanted to buy. So he was nice about it and said he'd still have the sale $1098 if I came back. Although, the other offers I probably wouldn't get again. It was a enjoyable experience. KEFs sounded amazing.

Should I have bought the KEF at that price, even after one listen? I mean I could have returned them after the trial? Let me know what you guys think?

Oh, and yes I chose only to listen to comparable tower speakers only. I wanted to keep it simple, short and non-complicated. I mean I can go in and ask to listen to Flagship, top of the line speakers another day! Should I have? Oh, and I am still undecided to what I want to buy, but more informed and got to experience these 3 tower speakers. It helps and confounds one's decision ahaha

Thanks to all who replies!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Always do more audition.

I would get KEF over the other 2, but your audition is the only one that counts here.

KEF, Revel, B&W, Focal, Dynaudio, ATC, Tannoy, etc.

 

[WARMACHINE4444]

Always do more audition.

I would get KEF over the other 2, but your audition is the only one that counts here.

KEF, Revel, B&W, Focal, Dynaudio, ATC, Tannoy, etc.

Thanks for the encouragement! I will definetly try to see if I can hear these brands locally. I will try to make another outage for demos

 

[monkish54]

Should I have bought the KEF at that price, even after one listen?

I'm glad you enjoyed the Q700. Did you enjoyed the timbre and midrange?

Nope! And here's why:

*****

The midrange's cone breakup is fairy high in level so the timber might sound "harsh" when loud and cause listening fatigue.

Fig.4 KEF Q900, anechoic response on tweeter axis at 50", averaged across 30° horizontal window and corrected for microphone response (red trace), with farfield tweeter response (blue), farfield midrange/woofer response (green above 700Hz), farfield low-frequency response plotted below 300Hz (red), and complex sum of nearfield midrange, woofer, and passive radiator responses (green below 200Hz).

I mean I can go in and ask to listen to Flagship, top of the line speakers another day! Should I have?

Yes. Listen to the Blade and the Salon 2, if you can. Personally, I'm very happy I listened to the Blade, Salon 2, Compact Reference One, S-1EX, etc. before I bought my towers. If I hadn't, I would have settled on a lesser speaker than what I purchased, and I would have paid more money for it. :EEK:

***** The measurements are of the Q900. If the Q900 looks like that up-top, I have no reason to believe the Q700 has the LCR filter they should have used to lower the SPL of the cone breakup.

BTW, you can never audition too much. I loved auditioning.

 

[zieglj01]

So, went to go listen to speakers! Actually, only 3 different towers. Kept it simple and just wanted to get a feel for the sound they had. Everyone was super nice and setup or let me play whatever I wanted at the 3 stores.

Monitor Audio RX6 - $1399 CDN Local Audio store

I thoroughly enjoyed the RX6s.

Glad that you are enjoying your adventure. I am a fan of the
Silver RX6 speakers - they are really nice, and put out a real
nice soudstage, with good imaging.

 

[WARMACHINE4444]

I'm glad you enjoyed the Q700. Did you enjoyed the timbre and midrange?

Nope! And here's why:

*****

The midrange's cone breakup is fairy high in level so the timber might sound "harsh" when loud and cause listening fatigue.





Yes. Listen to the Blade and the Salon 2, if you can. Personally, I'm very happy I listened to the Blade, Salon 2, Compact Reference One, S-1EX, etc. before I bought my towers. If I hadn't, I would have settled on a lesser speaker than what I purchased, and I would have paid more money for it. :EEK:

***** The measurements are of the Q900. If the Q900 looks like that up-top, I have no reason to believe the Q700 has the LCR filter they should have used to lower the SPL of the cone breakup.

BTW, you can never audition too much. I loved auditioning.

Once again monk thank you for the graphs and interpration of them for a non-audiophile altho enthusiast to understand!

I really didn't state more of the negatives of each speaker. You actually confirmed to me, after listening to the KEF I did find the sound of it quite harsh also. It was pretty much cranked as loud as I had the MLs, louder than the MAs too.

In my head while I was listening to the KEF, could I listen to this for an extended period without fatigue? By comparison, I didn't experience this with the MAs. Though, I thought the KEFs had better upper treble extension, tiny more really.

Crap kinda wish I asked to hear Pl200 now There are a couple more store I want to go and demo at, 2more audio stores and maybe electronics one too.

I don't think I can hear a Blade or Revel locally. But, I will ask to hear Flagships after demoing towers I can afford! I agree it was fun, proly cause I didn't have to shell out money yet. And, I still love my KLHs, it's just been put in perspective to what is out there and what I enjoy that sounds good to me.

 

[WARMACHINE4444]

Glad that you are enjoying your adventure. I am a fan of the
Silver RX6 speakers - they are really nice, and put out a real
nice soudstage, with good imaging.

Thanks, I loved how tiny they were yet, the sound was huge! And I like the walnut finish, super nice, as oppossed to the boring black only KEF. Still nice tho black.

 

[monkish54]

Once again monk thank you for the graphs and interpration of them for a non-audiophile altho enthusiast to understand!

'Tis what I'm here for.

I really didn't state more of the negatives of each speaker. You actually confirmed to me, after listening to the KEF I did find the sound of it quite harsh also. It was pretty much cranked as loud as I had the MLs, louder than the MAs too.

Cone breakup is no fun!

In my head while I was listening to the KEF, could I listen to this for an extended period without fatigue? By comparison, I didn't experience this with the MAs. Though, I thought the KEFs had better upper treble extension, tiny more really.

FWIW, the M1 uses the same mid/tweet as the Q700 but 5.25in instead of 6.5in (It's the mid/tweet in the Q500 and Q100), so if you liked the general sound/detail, the M1's midrange and tweeter should similar to the Q700 but without the harshness and probably more detail.

I agree it was fun, proly cause I didn't have to shell out money yet.

That's always the best part. XD

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Here is the Q900 on HTM.

The the SPL FR range 50Hz-20kHz is from 91dB and 93dB, which is only 2dB (~ 1.8kHz), which I think is excellent?

And for most of the FR from 50Hz-20kHz, it is from 91dB and 92dB, which I think is superb?

 

[monkish54]

Here is the Q900 on HTM.

The the SPL FR range 50Hz-20kHz is from 91dB and 93dB, which is only 2dB (~ 1.8kHz), which I think is excellent?

And for most of the FR from 50Hz-20kHz, it is from 91dB and 92dB, which I think is superb?

I usually strive for +/- 1db as well.

Like these:

Salon 2

JBL 6332

8260A

but few speakers are going to be +/- 1db at the 1-2k mark (standard B&M stores. Not DIY awesomeness like Philharmonic etc.) Also, while the FR is great, the cone breakup is still a big problem.

 

[WARMACHINE4444]

'Tis what I'm here for.



Cone breakup is no fun!



FWIW, the M1 uses the same mid/tweet as the Q700 but 5.25in instead of 6.5in (It's the mid/tweet in the Q500 and Q100), so if you liked the general sound/detail, the M1's midrange and tweeter should similar to the Q700 but without the harshness and probably more detail.



That's always the best part. XD

I am soo thankful for such great posters on here! I've learned alot that I wouldn't have if I didn't join here! Good info to know about the M1s, the kefs mid/tweet was moving like crazy when I was listening and looking at them doing their thing.

I'd add Arx A5s too your list. Awesome speakers and would perform just as well as the rest of your speakers on the list. Falls right in the middle of your budget depending on shipping costs, which you can add to the cart and it will give you a list of shipping costs depending on options

Thanks Mark for the 2nd Arx A5 recommendation! Gtsuper got me going on them too, hence why I'm still researching, deciding and hopefully to listening to more speakers!

Thanks everyone!

 

[GranteedEV]

The the SPL FR range 50Hz-20kHz is from 91dB and 93dB, which is only 2dB (~ 1.8kHz), which I think is excellent?

And for most of the FR from 50Hz-20kHz, it is from 91dB and 92dB, which I think is superb?

The graph looks too smoothed-over to be of any real use. Compare to an actually useful graph, IE Gene's graph of the Infinity P363:

A graph of this sort on the Q900s would be much more revealing of any issues than the HTM ones.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The graph looks too smoothed-over to be of any real use.

Most graphs look too smoothed-over, including Salk and Philharmonic graphs.

 

[PENG]

Most graphs look too smoothed-over, including Salk and Philharmonic graphs.

Agree, but perhaps to slightly different extent, so Grant could be right when you can compare them side by side. The problem is, can you trust the plots, the scale may indicate they have not been smoothed-over much but the person who did the recording could have easily done something, whatever the reasons were. That's another reason why we cannot go by the graphs only. We could if we have enough measurements and can do apple to apple comparisons but most of the time there is not the case.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Agree, but perhaps to slightly different extent, so Grant could be right when you can compare them side by side. The problem is, can you trust the plots, the scale may indicate they have not been smoothed-over much but the person who did the recording could have easily done something, whatever the reasons were. That's another reason why we cannot go by the graphs only. We could if we have enough measurements and can do apple to apple comparisons but most of the time there is not the case.

Yup, that's the recurring theme - plots aren't everything and we need to listen to the speakers before making judgement.