I was excited about vsx-1020, now I'm concerned

[Eyecantcode]

I had decided to purchase the Pioneer VSX-1020 for all the features that it provided; with the assumption that it actually performed at its speced power ratings. Below are posts that concerned me about the vsx-1020 and other midranged avr:

One thing I did notice about digging deeper. Is the power consumption on this unit is only 245 watts. Which really scares me about the amps ability. With all channels driven it will probably only put 40 to 50 watts per channel. Thank heavens for the pre-outs.

Regarding the # of channels driven, the crucial point is to know How many? are being driven for that respective power disclosure specification. For example, if the power output is rated as 100W per channel with 2 channels driven. Then 100% of the power supply is driving 2 channels, if one increases the # of channels driven to 4 then simply decrease the power output rating by 50% (50W per channel) as the power supply now must supply twice the # channels. If the # of channels driven is increased to 7 channels, then the power rating is decreased once again by 75% or 37.5W per channel..

Now you can understand how an amplifier rated @ 100W per channel may actually only output 37.5W per channel if all channels are driven. But then again all channels driven specification is more crucial for music source material than movie sound tracks..

Post back if any more questions..

Just my $0.01..

35w-50w per channel I like the features and all, but that's ridiculous. I know I don't have the best speakers;2 Polk Audio TSi300 and Polk Audio CS20 (looking at the PB12-NSD) but I think they can handle more than 50w (I think) Now to my issue, my livingroom is about 5000cubic ft. (Which I'm not trying to blow the roof), but how can I get at least 85w x 5, or 85w to my mains and center. I like the setup to involve either the 1020 ($549) or the 920 (399)

 

[Seth=L]

It's next to never when you would need 35 watts of power on each channel at any given time. The front left, right, and center will probably take 20-30 watts on average for each channel at reference levels, they may occasionally peak to 60 watts on reference levels. The surround rarely need more than 10-15 watts at any given time. That's not to say they won't ever use that extra power, but it's there in the event that it's needed. Movie soundtracks don't have constant high output on all channels, and the most power needed will be on the low frequencies. If you have a subwoofer (which it appears you are looking to get a nice one) and your receiver has all speakers set to small with the crossover set to 80hz-100hz you'll find that will relieve a significant amount of stress off of the receiver's amplifier.

My opinion is that you will most likely be fine with the VSX-1020. Don't allow yourself to be consumed by how many watts your speakers can handle, or how many watts your speakers "need" etc...

 

[Eyecantcode]

You make very valid points, but what were anamorphic96's concerns about the receiver's lack of power output over 50w a channel? He seemed to believe this is a problem.

My opinion is that you will most likely be fine with the VSX-1020

Are you saying the 1020 will produce High quality volume levels to my speakers?

I understand a movie never requires you to need constant high wattage output, but during those times that it does, I'd like to have it.

 

[sholling]

I never recommend non-Elite Pioneer receivers. I've owned two and I think to call their claimed power specs "optimistic" is being generous. I think you'd be a lot better off with a refurbished Onkyo TX-SR607 or 707. However if you already own the Pioneer I wouldn't run out and sell it.

 

[Eyecantcode]

I think you'd be a lot better off with a refurbished Onkyo TX-SR607 or 707

Based on what facts? The 607 and 707, along with any mid-range avr for that matter, fall under the same scrutiny of inflated specs. Although the 607 and 707 may be good or even better than the 1020, preference is not my concern. I looking for features along with the ability to drive my speakers loudly and clean.

 

[tom67]

May sound dumb but...

Look for best priced major brand that weighs over 25lbs......Most mfgs have been cutting back on power supply quality which is were the weight is...Yamaha used to pride themselves in delivering rated power, but most of their sub 20 lb units no longer deliver....a sad trend in favor of features that we rarely need or want..

 

[jliedeka]

5000 cu ft is a good sized room. I would suspect you would benefit from more power. I really wouldn't panic before listening to actual movie soundtracks with your full system. If you have a couple of decent subwoofers, the speakers won't need as much power and you may be fine. If you need more watts, you could always pick up something from Emotiva for the front left and right channels. The Pioneer should run the rest without breaking a sweat even in a big room.

Jim

 

[Eyecantcode]

If you need more watts, you could always pick up something from Emotiva for the front left and right channels. The Pioneer should run the rest without breaking a sweat even in a big room.


Jim

Interesting. I presume you're speaking of an amplifier. (sorry, I'm more of a car audio guy) I'm more concerned about the fronts and center having more power. The center has more dialogue than the rest, so I'd like its output to be very strong as well.

I admit, I probably need to get my receiver and hook it up and then see where I am. I just got spooked by the posts I quoted. To spend $600 on a receiver that will maybe do 50w a channel scared me.

 

[sholling]

Based on what facts? The 607 and 707, along with any mid-range avr for that matter, fall under the same scrutiny of inflated specs. Although the 607 and 707 may be good or even better than the 1020, preference is not my concern. I looking for features along with the ability to drive my speakers loudly and clean.

You asked a question and got an answer. Besides the fact that I own an older VSX-1014 and my Onkyo TX-SR606 blows the doors off it, the specs are available with a bit of googling.

Pioneer seems shy about the 1020's details but based on two sources it appears that the VSX-1020's rated power consumption is 245 Watts. That's roughly 2 amps at 120v, but let's be generous and assume a 50% reserve - that's a whopping 3 amps. The TX-SR707 is rated at 5.9 amps (700w @ 120v). If the 707 doesn't have enough power then you can always move up the food chain or add an amp to the 707 to power your mains. Bottom line if you want a Pioneer with specs you can compare with Onkyo's then buy an Elite.

Conversions:
http://www.jobsite-generators.com/power_calculators.html

Edit:
BTW there are at least 3 ways to rate power.

• Watts per channel, 2 channels driven at 1khz
• Watts per channel, 2 channels driven from 20 to 20,000hz
• Watts per channel, all channels driven from 20 to 20,000hz

 

[Eyecantcode]

You asked a question and got an answer.
[/LIST]

I hope I didn't offend you, by asking about facts. I've seem how threads can get out of hand with people giving there opinion based on preference.

Pioneer seems shy about the 1020's details but based on two sources it appears that the 's rated power consumption is 245 Watts.
[/LIST]

And the above is most definitely facts. That is what I was concerned about; the power consumption to stated output doesn't match. I like the features that the 1020 have, but that is cutting major corners. The Onkyo's look to be better overall receivers based on there power consumption to rated output. I really like the ipod compatibility that 1020 have, but lacking on output I just can't do it.

If the 707 doesn't have enough power then you can always move up the food chain or add an amp to the 707 to power your mains.

That amp is another 800 bucks That's out.

 

[Eyecantcode]

Can someone give vital differences between the SR707 and RC260. As it stands, the 260 is about $200 cheaper than the 707.

 

[sholling]

Can someone give vital differences between the SR707 and RC260. As it stands, the 260 is about $200 cheaper than the 707.

There are 2 very similar lines that I'm aware of. The HT and the TX. Last year's HT-RC160 was similar to the TX-SR607 but with a notch less power. And the HT-RC180 was similar to the TX-NR807 but with a notch less power. It looks like the HT-RC260 closer to the new TX-SR608 than last year's 707.

Two that big things reach out and grab my attention are the 608 and the 260 do not have preouts. And like the 608 the 260 is not 4 ohm certified. If you have access to Accessories For Less the price difference between a new 260 and a factory refurbished 707 is pretty minor. The 606 in my bedroom is a refurb from them.

The two to stay away from are the TX-SR806 and the TH-RC180. Basically the same unit. They were a major redesign and both had a few reports of fires.

 

[Eyecantcode]

So basically, we're talking about pre-outs; the ability to connect amps. I thought I saw the 260's specs give rating at 4 ohms. Early in this thread I spoke of fact rather than opinions. Reason being, due to people stating personal preferrence only, I was unable to gain the neccessary info inorder for me to make the best buying decision. If I'd known the info Sholling stated earlier, I'd never chose to buy the 1020, and prematurally purchased 8ohm speakers. It seems as I will be going with onkyo and I don't want to goof my choice of model.

 

[JohnA]

FYI, listed specs:

Amplifier section
Continuous average power output of 80
watts* per channel, min., at 8 ohms, from
20 Hz to 20 000 Hz with no more than
0.08 %** total harmonic distortion.
Front (stereo) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .80 W + 80 W
Power output (1 kHz, 8 Ω, 0.05 %, 1 ch driven)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 110 W per channel
Guaranteed speaker impedance
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16 Ω to 8 Ω,
less than 8 Ω to 6 Ω (setting required)
* Measured pursuant to the Federal Trade Commission’s
Trade Regulation rule on Power Output Claims for
Amplifiers
** Measured by Audio Spectrum Analyzer

 

[sholling]

and prematurally purchased 8ohm speakers. It seems as I will be going with onkyo and I don't want to goof my choice of model.

Don't feel bad about the non-Elite Pioneers, after 20 years of putting Pioneers in my cars I fell for their home receiver specs to. It took "upgrading" (downgrading?) from an okay VSX-912 to a gutless VSX-1014 to alert me that their was something wrong with their ratings. But I got my money's worth out of the 1014 and it still lives on in my little home-office.

I think most speakers are 8ohm which is why every receiver on the planet is rated for 8ohm loads. I just like a receiver to have the flexibility to also drive a 4ohm speaker. This is actually a new requirement for me with my order of a set of Salk Song Towers for my family room. Everything I've owned before was at least nominally 8ohm. But in my early stages of looking around for speakers for a bedroom system upgrade coming the 1st of the year all it seems like all 3 of the early contenders are 4ohm speakers. I have no idea why.

 

[Eyecantcode]

Don't feel bad about the non-Elite Pioneers,

Even the Elite's have overhyped ratings. The almost got me though

Continuous average power output of 80
watts* per channel, min., at 8 ohms, from
20 Hz to 20 000 Hz with no more than
0.08 %** total harmonic distortion.
Front (stereo) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .80 W + 80 W
Power output (1 kHz, 8 Ω, 0.05 %, 1 ch driven)

So is that good or bad? Please forgive my ignorance, but why are there ratings that reflect only 1 channel when the receiver is 7.1? Other than the lack of preouts, is there any real signifant feature and/or performance capabilitites the 260 is lacking than the 707?

 

[rnatalli]

The Onkyo 707 is a nice receiver. I would definitely take it over the Pioneer for two reasons alone. Power and Audyssey

 

[Eyecantcode]

The Onkyo 707 is a nice receiver. I would definitely take it over the Pioneer for two reasons alone. Power and Audyssey

I'm asking about the RC260 or 707, both are Onkyo receivers.

 

[Shock]

Didn't AH debunk the "All channel driven" test as being a terrible way to judge amplifiers?

Also, the 245 rating on that little sticker on the back is it's A/C power draw, not it's DC conversion.

 

[rnatalli]

I'm asking about the RC260 or 707, both are Onkyo receivers.

I wasn't answering your question, just making a general statement about the thread.