I was excited about vsx-1020, now I'm concerned

JohnA

JohnA

Audioholic Chief
So is that good or bad? Please forgive my ignorance, but why are there ratings that reflect only 1 channel when the receiver is 7.1? Other than the lack of preouts, is there any real signifant feature and/or performance capabilitites the 260 is lacking than the 707?
The amp will only provide 80 W in stereo, for all channels driven it will be less and as you can see...unlisted...;)
 
anamorphic96

anamorphic96

Audioholic General
I think your over thinking this a bit. Most HT receivers are going to be driven with the crossover set at 80hz. This makes the amp much more efficient and capable of playing at loud levels without much strain.

5000 cubic feet is a large space though. So getting something like the 707 might be worth looking into since you can add an amp if needed. you probably will not unless your listening at stupid loud levels.

The Onkyo 707 can be had new for around 6 to 650. Which is a solid deal.

While the regular Pioneers have rather anemic amp sections they are still more than capable of dealing with a medium sized living room. The 1020 might not be enough for your size room and listening habits.

But if your set on Pioneers feature set then go with the 1120 which has pre-outs. Problem solved.
 
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Eyecantcode

Junior Audioholic
The amp will only provide 80 W in stereo, for all channels driven it will be less and as you can see...unlisted...;)
Which receiver is this? Coming from car audio to home audio is night and day. 80w for only two channels; then why get a receiver that is 7.1:confused:

I think your over thinking this a bit.
I don't know enough about this to over think:D

So getting something like the 707 might be worth looking into since you can add an amp if needed. you probably will not unless your listening at stupid loud levels
What is considered stupid levels. I would want it to be loud when explosions and clashes happen. I also would want it to be loud (at times) when listening to music.

But if your set on Pioneers feature set then go with the 1120 which has pre-outs. Problem solved
But wouldn't the 707 blow the 1120 out the water?

Does the Are the 707's ratings based on stereo or 7 channels?
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
The similarly designed Onkyo TX-SR706 got very high marks for amplifier performance hitting 75 watts per channel with 5 channels driven and hitting 122 with 2 channels driven (8 ohms 1khz).
 
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Eyecantcode

Junior Audioholic
The similarly designed Onkyo TX-SR706 got very high marks for amplifier performance hitting 75 watts per channel with 5 channels driven and hitting 122 with 2 channels driven (8 ohms 1khz).
In regards to an HT setting, is 75 watts per channel considered loud? I know loud doesn't mean good, there's an assumption the onkyo receivers produce good quality sound. What Denon and HK models equal in comparison to the 707?
 
anamorphic96

anamorphic96

Audioholic General
In my living room I achieve dynamic peaks in the mid to high 90db area. This is pretty loud to me. Some people play things at reference level all the time. Which can hit peaks of well over 100db. That's way to loud for me and many people.

I mentioned the 1120 in case you like Pioneer's "feature set" not if the amp is strong enough. Some really love and have to have the iPod integration it offers. Some prefer the user interface the Pioneer offers. It all comes down to where your priorities are.

It sounds like your flexible. In this case try out the Onkyo 707 and if you like it. Keep it. If not. Return it.

Is 75 watts enough power. It can be for some speakers. It all depends on how efficient the speakers are. Some speakers can produce over 100db with 1 watt. Your Polks are pretty efficient at roughly 90 to 92 db if memory serves. So at 1 meter away your speakers will produce roughly 90 to 92 db with 1 watt of power applied.

I posted a link that will help you determine how much power you need.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html
 
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Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Wattage on it's own does not equate to loudness. I've seen people make statements along these lines that create confusion on how this works such as "My receiver pushes 500 watts". The receiver is a source of power for the speakers, but the speaker takes the power. This is why if you take the receiver past it's operational limits the speaker will continue to take power even if it is not present and the receiver will overwork itself.

Now believe it or not the difference between 100 watts and 200 watts is a mere 3 decibels. When you look at the scale of decibels and how it relates to sound pressure in your space you will realize quickly how minor this could be, or how important it could be. For every 10 decibel increase it is perceived that there is twice as much sound by human hearing standards. A 6 decibel increase is twice the measured sound pressure. Finally a 3 decibel increase requires twice the amount of power.

Assuming your speakers are 90dB 1 watt / 1 meter, meaning your speakers achieve 90 decibels of sound pressure with 1 watt at a distance of 1 meter, then if you increase the wattage to 2 the decibel level should reach 93dB. In order to reach double the percieved level of output from 90dB, 100dB, you would need about 10 watts. This all assumes this is a constant single tone or series of tones with a distinct pattern are being used to achieve these output levels. In reality your speakers could demand 1 watt and suddenly demand 30 watts for an explosion then go back down to 1 or 2 watts again after the impact has faded. Most of the benchtests are constant basis or long term ratings. Peak levels are significant as well and most modern receivers can handle getting you sometimes over 100 watts to 2 or more channels for a few moments without having noticeable impact on the sound or operation of the receiver.

If you had speakers with a complex load or were very inefficient the use of a much more powerful receiver or even separate amplifier would indeed be quite useful. I live in an apartment with moderately efficient and easy loaded speakers. My power requirements are so small that I use a Teac CR-H220 CD/Receiver for my main system which is rated to provide 25 watts per channel at 6 ohms (1kHz) both channels driven. I've never experienced a shortage of power using this 10 pound piece of equipment and I've never felt that I would benefit from more power for the application (console video games, movies, television, and music listening). Your requirements will be higher because you have a larger room, however your speakers are also more efficient than mine giving way for a margin of error between room size and speaker efficiency. The size of your room outways the efficiency factor, so you still will need more than 25 watts per channel. Even if you had a receiver that could achieve 50 watts per channel RMS for 5 or 7 channels you'd not likely ever notice a problem with power unless there was a limitation of output constricted by the output devices themselves that wouldn't allow any one channel to have output exceeding 50 watts.

Headroom is certainly necessary, and most commonly on requires 2 or 3 channels to be acting on heavy current demands at one time. A receiver gets its power from the power supply and the output sections work indepently taking power that is needed from the power supply. If only 2 channels are running they can use the entire power supply for themselves meaning they will often achieve higher output capability than it would if 5 or 7 channels were running.
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
What is considered stupid levels. I would want it to be loud when explosions and clashes happen. I also would want it to be loud (at times) when listening to music.
This is where your subwoofer comes into play. There is almost no such thing as too much sub. If you don't have a big gnarly subwoofer then it's time to start saving your money. The best deals are from internet direct companies and the size depends on the cubic footage of the room.
 
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Eyecantcode

Junior Audioholic
One thing I did notice about digging deeper. Is the power consumption on this unit is only 245 watts. Which really scares me about the amps ability. With all channels driven it will probably only put 40 to 50 watts per channel. Thank heavens for the pre-outs.
In regards to Seth=L's post (which was great info), are you saying the vsx-1120 would be fine although my room is large? Then wouldn't that mean the 707 would be a better choice (loudness, quality), or is your post saying I shouldn't notice a difference? That was a very informative post, but I do I use that information to determine what avr I get; full featured pioneer (mainly iphone functions), or the better built onkyo?

This is where your subwoofer comes into play. There is almost no such thing as too much sub. If you don't have a big gnarly subwoofer then it's time to start saving your money. The best deals are from internet direct companies and the size depends on the cubic footage of the room.
PB-12
 
anamorphic96

anamorphic96

Audioholic General
In regards to Seth=L's post (which was great info), are you saying the vsx-1120 would be fine although my room is large? Then wouldn't that mean the 707 would be a better choice (loudness, quality), or is your post saying I shouldn't notice a difference? That was a very informative post, but I do I use that information to determine what avr I get; full featured pioneer (mainly iphone functions), or the better built onkyo?



PB-12
Did you check out the link I posted to see what kind of power you may need.
 
T

tom67

Full Audioholic
and finally

looks like this thing is a big plastic loser...might as well buy Sony unit at BB rated at 100 watts for $229...same output and features for the most part.
 
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Eyecantcode

Junior Audioholic
looks like this thing is a big plastic loser...might as well buy Sony unit at BB rated at 100 watts for $229...same output and features for the most part.
What thing?

Did you check out the link I posted to see what kind of power you may need.
Sure did. that was nice. I use the 707's specs w/2ch driven. 20dB gain from amp, -11.3 dB Loss due to dispersion (distance). 3dB Gain from sonic reinforcement (multi speakers), 6dB Gain from placement (reinforcement from reflected sound) 107.7dB SPL at listening position.

How do you suppose I do this over 5 ch driven (accurately anyway)
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
In regards to Seth=L's post (which was great info), are you saying the vsx-1120 would be fine although my room is large? Then wouldn't that mean the 707 would be a better choice (loudness, quality), or is your post saying I shouldn't notice a difference? That was a very informative post, but I do I use that information to determine what avr I get; full featured pioneer (mainly iphone functions), or the better built onkyo?



PB-12
I personally think the Pioneer would be fine for your if it has the features you are looking for. The Onkyo is built better, and is more powerful. However, in accordance to my post above you are talking less than 6dB difference between these two receivers, probably closer to 3dB difference in reality though. The Pioneer will get you over 110dB with those speakers from an individual speaker, imagine the compounded level of output from all 5 plus a subwoofer, you will not likely want for more power. In the event you change speakers the VSX-1120 has those preouts if you need them for future upgrades. We'll assume if you have money later to upgrade your speakers, you have money to upgrade power.:D
 
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Eyecantcode

Junior Audioholic
I personally think the Pioneer would be fine for your if it has the features you are looking for. The Onkyo is built better, and is more powerful.
Will it be a noticeable power difference?

The Pioneer will get you over 110dB with those speakers from an individual speaker, imagine the compounded level of output from all 5 plus a subwoofer
So how do I use the peak SPL calculator with 5 channels driven. If its 100w 2ch driven, then do I simply divide 5 into 100?

PS Really, the 920 or 1020 would be fine if they had preouts.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
I don't think it's that cut and dry, and by your logic you would be dividing it from 200, not 100.;)

I say the eventuality of a power difference will be negligible and you probably wouldn't be bothered by it. What do you have right now?
 
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Eyecantcode

Junior Audioholic
I don't think it's that cut and dry, and by your logic you would be dividing it from 200, not 100.;)
Wouldn't 200 represent the combined wattage of 2ch; I was speaking of per channel. 120w with 5ch driven = 45w per channel. But again, that's based upon the ramped up specs that pioneer has given. Their website doesn't show the amp section, how can one determine the watts per channel 2 driven? and if the 707 is more powerful then that would have to mean the 1120 does less than 45w per channel w/5ch driven. Right?

What do you have right now?
This
 
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Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Wouldn't 200 represent the combined wattage of 2ch; I was speaking of per channel. 120w with 5ch driven = 45w per channel. But again, that's based upon the ramped up specs that pioneer has given. Their website doesn't show the amp section, how can one determine the watts per channel 2 driven? and if the 707 is more powerful then that would have to mean the 1120 does less than 45w per channel w/5ch driven. Right?



This
First of all, we don't know what the VSX-1120 does at 5 channels. Second of all, you'll never need 45 watts running on each channel at one time.

You are using that with your Polks? What are your impressions, does it distort or sound compressed when you listen at high volume?
 
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Eyecantcode

Junior Audioholic
I just got my cs10 today; before, I was using the center that came with the Sony HTIB, after connecting the cs10, big difference.


First of all, we don't know what the VSX-1120 does at 5 channels
that's my concern.

Second of all, you'll never need 45 watts running on each channel at one time.
Maybe not at one time, but wouldn't the C,L,R channels need it?

What are your impressions, does it distort or sound compressed when you listen at high volume?
The polk's are great! Sound quality is wonderful, full and clear. They can stand to have more power tho. For me and the speakers:D

I know the specs on the receiver I have are inflated, and I could stand at least double the volume that I have now.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
The C,L,R channels demand more power than the surround channels, it's reasonable to assume that you would probably get over 45 watts per channel to them as I have described before.
 

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