I was excited about vsx-1020, now I'm concerned

[Eyecantcode]

The 1020 doesn't have preouts, but it has audio RCA L/R out, is it possible to use those to connect the Sony receiver and run the L, R, C on the 1020?

 

[Seth=L]

I thought we were looking at the VSX-1120?

 

[Eyecantcode]

I thought we were looking at the VSX-1120?

We were, but the 1120 doesn't come out until June. The only real difference that I see is the 1120 has preouts and pc control. Not interested in the pc control and the pre-out; well its unlikely that I'll buy another amp anyway.

Screw sitting around waiting, I just ordered the 1020 from BBY. Sure I paid a little more with shipping and sales tax, but it won't be a hassle to return it if the receiver doesn't cut it. My plan is to test it out and if the power isn't pleasing, then I will return it and get the 707.

Lets say I like the 1020, what will I really be lacking that the 707 offers. I'm not really talking about power, but other features, like Audyssey Dynamic EQ; I don't know the benefits of this feature.

PS Before I order the PB12 is there another 12" sub that really rivals it in that price range?

 

[Eyecantcode]

Got my UPS tracking and my vsx-1020 will be here Tuesday. I've been reading posts from people who currently own one and the worry is the minute 2amp draw (245w). I've read that it doesn't provide enough power with all channels driven. I'm hoping that the power is sufficient enough for me because I really like the iphone feature; still, I won't sacrifice sound for this feature. I heard that the 1020 doesn't crossover the channels independently; I don't see the advantage or disadvantage in that.

 

[sholling]

Got my UPS tracking and my vsx-1020 will be here Tuesday. I've been reading posts from people who currently own one and the worry is the minute 2amp draw (245w). I've read that it doesn't provide enough power with all channels driven. I'm hoping that the power is sufficient enough for me because I really like the iphone feature; still, I won't sacrifice sound for this feature.

Who knows, you may love it. I still have its older brother in my home-office. You own it so give it chance.

I heard that the 1020 doesn't crossover the channels independently; I don't see the advantage or disadvantage in that.

I'll give you an example. Let's say you have towers for mains and they are capable of extending down to say 40hz, and your center will go extend down to 80hz, but the surrounds that you love only go down to 120hz. In that case it's nice to be able to set the crossovers for the mains at say 40-60hz, the center at 80hz, and the surrounds at 120hz instead of having to set them all to crossover at 120hz. It just allows a bit more versatility in speaker selection and crossover points.

 

[Eyecantcode]

Maybe I am overthinking this

You know, after posting here (you guys have provided great info) and reading posts from people who actually have the 1020, I have realized that I indeed have been over-thinking this. When I did the 5 channels driven calculations for the 707 vs the 1020 and 1120, I concur with the guys who stated the 707 has more power. But there were a couple of guys here that stated the power difference would not be noticeable; I concur as well. according to the specs of each avr, the 707 does 100w 2ch driven and the 1020 is 80w 2ch driven. With 5 channels driven the 707 does 40w ch and 1020 does 32w ch. Although the numbers prove the 707 has more power than the 1020, but by only 8w ch. I don't believe I would notice this. Now what I won't know, until I get the receiver, is whether 32-40w ch is enough to satisfy me.

Now that I understand this, I see the need for pre-outs. I will run the 1020 as 3.1 for now and when the 1120 comes out, I will return the 1020 to BBY and get the 1120 and an amp to run my surr. speakers. I would rather not share my fronts or center with any other speakers, meaning I would need 2 amps; one for the surr speakers and one for either the center or fronts.

Does this scenario Make any sense to you guys?

 

[Slare]

If your math is right, you're not going to miss those 8 watts comparing one to another.

However you will notice it compared to a more robust AVR that is capable of delivering 70-80% of its rated output to 5 or 7ch.

You must also consider use... equal power output to 5/7ch is a lot more important for multi-channel music (or 7ch/stereo/party mode), setups with no sub, mutli-zone use. Typical 7ch soundtracks just don't have a lot of situations sending maximum signals to all channels.

If you are using the unit for movies with a sub it is not a huge deal, which is why they can get away with it on the lower end units.

 

[Eyecantcode]

If your math is right, you're not going to miss those 8 watts comparing one to another.

However you will notice it compared to a more robust AVR that is capable of delivering 70-80% of its rated output to 5 or 7ch.

Good thing I've never had a more robust AVR

The AVR will be used mainly for movies (85% movies 15% Music) However, when I do play my music, I want it to be loud, clean, and crisp

 

[Stereodude]

Got my UPS tracking and my vsx-1020 will be here Tuesday. I've been reading posts from people who currently own one and the worry is the minute 2amp draw (245w). I've read that it doesn't provide enough power with all channels driven. I'm hoping that the power is sufficient enough for me because I really like the iphone feature; still, I won't sacrifice sound for this feature. I heard that the 1020 doesn't crossover the channels independently; I don't see the advantage or disadvantage in that.

I can't believe this thread has gotten this big and no one has mentioned this yet. Do you realize that rating on the back isn't a peak rating? It's the power draw under some operating condition. It doesn't mean much.

For example, I have two Pioneer Elite receivers. My 84TXSi has a rating of 560W on the back, but in testing delivers >100W into all 7 channels simultaneously. My SC-05 has a rating of 330W on the back, but again can deliver >100W into all 7 channels simultaneously. Obviously the amplifiers aren't 100% efficient nor are they creating power internally, yet they can put out power that exceeds the wattage listed on the back.

 

[Eyecantcode]

I can't believe this thread has gotten this big and no one has mentioned this yet. Do you realize that rating on the back isn't a peak rating? It's the power draw under some operating condition. It doesn't mean much.

For example, I have two Pioneer Elite receivers. My 84TXSi has a rating of 560W on the back, but in testing delivers >100W into all 7 channels simultaneously. My SC-05 has a rating of 330W on the back, but again can deliver >100W into all 7 channels simultaneously. Obviously the amplifiers aren't 100% efficient nor are they creating power internally, yet they can put out power that exceeds the wattage listed on the back.

Great info! Make me feel a lot better about my purchase BBY.com tricked my. The told me all the stores in my area didn't have the 1020 in stock and I had to order online. Well I've just come from BBY and there it was in stock. I paid shipping for nothing. If the 920 or 1020 had pre-outs, then I would just keep it and order this Man that's nice. ............................................That's it, I'm ordering it........................My wife is gonna kill me. Well, if she puts me on the couch, at least I can watch tv with high quality sound

 

[Seth=L]

I can't believe this thread has gotten this big and no one has mentioned this yet. Do you realize that rating on the back isn't a peak rating? It's the power draw under some operating condition. It doesn't mean much.

For example, I have two Pioneer Elite receivers. My 84TXSi has a rating of 560W on the back, but in testing delivers >100W into all 7 channels simultaneously. My SC-05 has a rating of 330W on the back, but again can deliver >100W into all 7 channels simultaneously. Obviously the amplifiers aren't 100% efficient nor are they creating power internally, yet they can put out power that exceeds the wattage listed on the back.

I said something to this effect on another thread and I was shot down by someone saying that they had to adhere to some method of power consumption. I didn't really finish my research on that matter, but I do agree with this post. My little Teac CR-H220 has a power consumption rating of 75 watts and my JBL Power 50 has a power consumption rating of 250 watts. The Teac claims to do 25 watts x 2 @ 6 ohms and the JBL which has a similarly sized power transformer, slightly larger caps, and discrete bipolar transistors and is rated 50 watts x 2 @ 8 ohms. The JBL is older and US made. It's power consumption is probably closer to a peak demand. The Teac seems to be pretty spot on for it's RMS power capability. I imagine the Teac will consume more than 100 watts at times. I was just watching Iron Man on Blu-ray and I was kinda cranking it for that little thing, it didn't break a sweat.

 

[Shock]

I can't believe this thread has gotten this big and no one has mentioned this yet. Do you realize that rating on the back isn't a peak rating? It's the power draw under some operating condition. It doesn't mean much.

For example, I have two Pioneer Elite receivers. My 84TXSi has a rating of 560W on the back, but in testing delivers >100W into all 7 channels simultaneously. My SC-05 has a rating of 330W on the back, but again can deliver >100W into all 7 channels simultaneously. Obviously the amplifiers aren't 100% efficient nor are they creating power internally, yet they can put out power that exceeds the wattage listed on the back.

I did mention that, a page or two back.

 

[Eyecantcode]

Didn't AH debunk the "All channel driven" test as being a terrible way to judge amplifiers?

Also, the 245 rating on that little sticker on the back is it's A/C power draw, not it's DC conversion.

Sure did

It looks like I'll be spending $200 for pre-outs(the cost difference of the 1120); man that sucks. I wonder what would have been the disadvantage of putting pre-outs on the 920 and 1020. I'll also have to fork out another $600 for the XPA-3. This got real expensive very quickly.

 

[Seth=L]

Sure did

It looks like I'll be spending $200 for pre-outs(the cost difference of the 1120); man that sucks. I wonder what would have been the disadvantage of putting pre-outs on the 920 and 1020. I'll also have to fork out another $600 for the XPA-3. This got real expensive very quickly.

The disadvantage of not having preouts on the 920 and 1020 is that Pioneer won't be able to convince you to spend more money on the 1120.

Some time ago Pioneer had preouts on a second from bottom of the line model, the VSX-815 and subsequent VSX-816 that received a lot of attention just for the feature of preouts. Other than that they were packed with other features that weren't commonly found on receivers in their price range at the time, such as auto calibration and amplifier assignment flexibility. At this time their amplifiers used a Class H amp design, which was proven to be effective and efficient requiring minimal heatsinking and respectable output.

Panasonic shared a similar design for their receiver around that same time but switched to Class D slim profile receivers. After that Panasonic drifted from the audio market to focus on displays, Blu-ray, and the semiconductor market. Pioneer, which kind of defeats it's own name, seems to do very little of it's own development on it's lower end products and shifted it's OEM from what ever Panasonic must have been doing at the time to Sherwood. The Pioneer VSX-1020 seems to have a lot more of Pioneer's own workings inside of it, but it's amplifier section is still heavily Sherwood. The power transformers still come from whomever Pioneer was getting them from before, but the rest of the amp sections is clearly a Sherwood incarnation. I haven't seen the inside of the VSX-1120. The Elite SC series receivers are entirely Pioneer's creation, and those are kick-@ss.

Honestly, if I had been in your position I would have taking a long hard look at some of Marantz's refurbs at Accessories for Less. I really like their erganomics as well as their consistant amplifier performance. They offer preouts on the 4000 series on up. They may not have all the cool iPod features out of the box, or some other fancy HDMI features like 1.4a, but they've got it where it counts if sound is your ultimate concern and not features.

 

[Eyecantcode]

Honestly, if I had been in your position I would have taking a long hard look at some of Marantz's refurbs at Accessories for Less. I really like their erganomics as well as their consistant amplifier performance. They offer preouts on the 4000 series on up. They may not have all the cool iPod features out of the box, or some other fancy HDMI features like 1.4a, but they've got it where it counts if sound is your ultimate concern and not features.

Well, I just talked to the wifey and I have to sacrifice something. Spending $800 on the 1120 (just for the preout) and then another $600 on either an UPA-5 or XPA-3 is way over what we initially agreed. Besides, I still haven't purchased the pb12 which is $600. The Marantz 4000 series just don't have enough of what I want; I see myself want to upgrade quickly. The 5004 is pretty good, but its in the same price rage as the 707. If only the 607 had preouts; only $299.99. Now I was reading and someone please verify something for me, does Onkyo's and Marantz's ipod dock work with the iphone. Does the dock give the iphone/ipod some functional control of the receiver?

 

[sholling]

I would not sacrifice the subwoofer so I'd be looking at other options. That sub is going to be taking a lot of the strain off of the receiver and giving you much of your loud and clean. So here is a thought... Get by for now (and you'll probably be happy) with the VSX-1020 or the Onkyo. Then if in a year you decide that you must have more power move the 1020or 607 into your bedroom and then go all out on a new receiver. Maybe put it on your Christmas wish list.

 

[Eyecantcode]

I see you have a 1014, how do you like it. I can get a 1018 for cheap and it has preouts.

 

[Audioholics]

We'll be reviewing this receiver next month (I had to wait because of what's on my plate right now)

 

[sholling]

I see you have a 1014, how do you like it. I can get a 1018 for cheap and it has preouts.

I think I described it earlier in the tread as a downgrade from my older VSX-912. I have no idea if Pioneer has improved the line since I bought mine. The my Onkyo TX-SR606 replaced the VSX-912 as my bedroom receiver. In two channel mode the maximum clean volume is pretty close but I do prefer Audyssey over MCACC.

 

[Eyecantcode]

I can get a brand new VSX-1017TXV-K $349 shipped. Only 2 HDMI inputs. I don't know how much I'll suffer from the lack of current audio and video processing that the latest avr's have.