I May lose my Audioholic card for this but...

[j_garcia]

The burden of proof does not lay on me. I am not making a positive assertion; you are asking me to disprove that the world is flat. I agree that evidence should be easy to produce, so why hasn't it been done? An accelerometer should work, or maybe compare SPL spectrographs against a control. The chart of Auralex's site is so vague that it is worthless. SVS does the same thing with their $50 rubber feet. They claim the feet work and also claim to have data to back that up, but they were unable to produce that data when called on it.

You are the one questioning it.

 

[sawzalot]

You are the one questioning it.

I guess it would be funny if we have happy satisfied consumers trying to prove that sub dude/grammas do nothing at all lol.

 

[j_garcia]

I guess it would be funny if we have happy satisfied consumers trying to prove that sub dude/grammas do nothing at all lol.

I didn't think of it that way, but yes, that would be funny.

 

[Steve81]

Who knew people felt so passionately about vibration reduction

Indeed. I used a similar pad with my old PC12-NSD to keep it from dancing on a tile over concrete floor; before I got the pad, it was easy to track the couple inches it would move over the course of a week. The PC12 of course isn't a poor quality subwoofer; it simply has a light enclosure due to the cylinder design. Granted, some towels could have accomplished the same thing, but the pad looked nicer. I can't say that the pad impacted sound quality / resonances in any way, but if someone finds that for some reason a pad does stop a door from resonating or what have you, I don't see much point in arguing.

 

[j_garcia]

Indeed. I used a similar pad with my old PC12-NSD to keep it from dancing on a tile over concrete floor; before I got the pad, it was easy to track the couple inches it would move over the course of a week. The PC12 of course isn't a poor quality subwoofer; it simply has a light enclosure due to the cylinder design. Granted, some towels could have accomplished the same thing, but the pad looked nicer. I can't say that the pad impacted sound quality / resonances in any way, but if someone finds that for some reason a pad does stop a door from resonating or what have you, I don't see much point in arguing.

I'm not certain it helps the speaker itself, so where the benefit seems to be to me, is if you have other things that are directly affected. In my case, I feel it was the absence of other sounds that changed what I heard simply because the sub was vibrating all kinds of other stuff. Mine was on carpet and though relatively light for the size, it wasn't moving around. In my current place, if I crank the Empire, I can definitely get things to rattle around the room (fireplace doors, stove, etc...), but normal listening it isn't an issue.

 

[lsiberian]

I will take measurements when I get a chance. What type of measurements would people like?

 

[shadyJ]

I will take measurements when I get a chance. What type of measurements would people like?

Do you have access to a vibration sensor? Do you have a good omnidirectional mic and software that makes spectrograms? I would do a bunch of trials with and without the pad. If there are differences, they should show up consistently from the control tests. If they are audible differences, they ought to show up on the spectrograms. If they are physical differences they should show up on vibration sensor or accelerometer readings. I would do frequency sweeps as tests, but differences might be easier to spot in discrete frequency tones.

 

[Irishman]

Do you have access to a vibration sensor? Do you have a good omnidirectional mic and software that makes spectrograms? I would do a bunch of trials with and without the pad. If there are differences, they should show up consistently from the control tests. If they are audible differences, they ought to show up on the spectrograms. If they are physical differences they should show up on vibration sensor or accelerometer readings. I would do frequency sweeps as tests, but differences might be easier to spot in discrete frequency tones.

Do YOU have these tools?

 

[shadyJ]

Do YOU have these tools?

I have an omnidirectional mic and pro audio card with software that can generate spectrograms. I don't have a vibrational sensor and don't know how to use one but they look simple enough. However, I am not going to run these tests. Like I said, the burden of proof does not rest on me. Auralex is putting forth a positive argument, it is they and anyone who supports their assertions about their products who must prove their claims. Lol, and what's more my PC setup is especially suitable for these tests since I have front firing 15"s on top an Ikea desktop.

 

[Steve81]

Like I said, the burden of proof does not rest on me.

While the burden of proof ultimately lays on Auralex to prove their product works, your statement that John's anecdotal experiences are invalid doesn't hold much water without further explanation either. For example, when Gene states that AudioQuest cables are loaded with snake oil, he backs it up with measurements and explains how people get scammed by cable vendors. He could simply state "well the burden of proof rests on AudioQuest", but how far would that really go, particularly with those that have "experienced the AudioQuest difference".

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I will take measurements when I get a chance. What type of measurements would people like?

I gave a linky above to android app - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lul.accelerometer
I think there are iOS versions of similar tool

It uses accelerometer which every smartphone has. I know it wont be highly percise , but it would a start
The goal would to measure vibrations 1ft from sub on the floor (assuming hardwood) with and without subdude.

and the 2nd test is a simple 1 meter FR response of sub output with and without platform. Mike like this one - Dayton Audio UMM-6 USB Measurement MicrophoneÂ* | 390-808 and Free REW software would be the tools.

 

[Bear123]

Subwoofers do not cause vibrations in the room due to the interaction of the cab with the floor, or, more accurately, due to the interaction of its rubber feet with the floor. If this were the case, manufacturers could eliminate expensive drivers. The bass is produced by the driver, which transmits sound through the air to its surroundings...the floor, ceilings, walls, furniture, people, etc. A piece of foam placed near, on, or under the sub will do nothing other than fool people into believing they hear some magical difference. If the feet are too stiff on a hardwood floor and the sub moves around a bit at high levels, some foam pads under the feet for $1 will do the trick. People used to put butter on burns because they "believed" it was soothing. Doesn't mean it really helped.

 

[Bear123]

I gave a linky above to android app - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lul.accelerometer
I think there are iOS versions of similar tool

It uses accelerometer which every smartphone has. I know it wont be highly percise , but it would a start
The goal would to measure vibrations 1ft from sub on the floor (assuming hardwood) with and without subdude.

and the 2nd test is a simple 1 meter FR response of sub output with and without platform. Mike like this one - Dayton Audio UMM-6 USB Measurement MicrophoneÂ* | 390-808 and Free REW software would be the tools.

These tests would be published if there were data that showed the product was effective. Sort of like how there are measurement of how subwoofers actually perform. You can't produce a measured result from something that does not work.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

These tests would be published if there were data that showed the product was effective. Sort of like how there are measurement of how subwoofers actually perform. You can't produce a measured result from something that does not work.

Im not claiming anything, but your argument is weak at best. What you saying is - I'm going to be bothered measuring something because I know it doesn't exist

 

[Bear123]

Im not claiming anything, but your argument is weak at best. What you saying is - I'm going to be bothered measuring something because I know it doesn't exist

I didn't take it as though you were arguing for the effectiveness of the subdude, just quoted you to bring up the point of measurements. However, since I understand how subwoofers produce sound, I don't believe it is a weak argument. They don't produce sound from interaction between the cab/feet and the floor. They produce sound from the driver and/or port, which is transmitted through the air. This is what causes vibration and rumbling in the room and surrounding areas. A piece of foam near the sub will have no effect on the bass. Measurements will confirm this.

Any company that claims a legitimate performance parameter or improvement can back it up with some type of measurements. Companies that make subs can back up their performance claims with test that show output, extension, distortion, etc. Amplifiers can be tested for output and distortion. Subdudes...............well, lets keep going with "someone bought one and they said it worked".

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I agree than in theory any effect (if it exists at all, which I agree with you is unlikely) SHOULD be measurable. I also agree than the company in question did not in fact measure the claimed benefit in any subjective why. But then again LOTS of speaker manufacturers don't provide any measurements at all.
Does this means that, say KEF, is pushing snake oil ? Vast majority of bass will be produced by driver as again we agree, but what if the cabinet is unbalanced or does not have enough internal support or in short POS. Do you still think that isolating such crappy cabinet (which might lack even backing rubber feet) could not be beneficial or possibly measurable?

Again, I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here for sake of good argument

 

[Bear123]

Yes I think there can be a small amount of vibration, which can be solved for about $1 with the little 1" foam tabs you can put under the feet from the hardware store. But it will not have an audible or measurable effect on the bass, or smoothness, or tightness, or articulate, detailed, etc etc. In fact, my sub manufacturer included some foam tabs for free to put under the rubber feet of my subs since they are on hardwood.

 

[mpitogo2000]

Subwoofers do not cause vibrations in the room due to the interaction of the cab with the floor, or, more accurately, due to the interaction of its rubber feet with the floor.

I don't know about this. I have two Polk Audio DSW microPRO 3000 and I was searching for solutions from keeping them from dancing on hardwood floors. This thread came up in the search. They each have adjustable heavy rubber feet but with serious bass or explosions they tend to dance around (I would think this causes some interaction). And something about Tron 2 soundtrack song Solar Sailer makes the room floor vibrate with the deep notes in the track. I think this one is mostly bass waves not the coupling of the feet.

I was thinking of boring some holes in wood blocks–two pieces per sub–and gluing them down to the floor with silicone (removable I hope). I want limit the dancing but without strapping them down. The subs will still tend to jump in the air due to the passive radiators on the bottom but hopefully won't dance or crawl around.