How to Choose the Best Turntable for Vinyl Record Playback

[Jeffrey S. Albaugh]

There is no doubt that the 3 dimensional sound quality from a good Turntable, Arm, Cartridge is much more musical then a CD, which sounds flat and non dimensional in any comparison. I am very impressed with the many 2 Channel stereo fanatics here and their dedication to Turntables. It brings back alot of great memories. I had a an older Shure V15 Type 5 Cartridge. I loved it in my Phillips 212 Turntable. I regret having sold my collection of MFSL half speed Masters, many others, including UHQR's. (double thick JVC virgin vinyl).

 

[mpitogo2000]

Wow I wish I had read this much sooner but the thread was buried and did not easily come up in searches. Thank you for writing this article.

I now understand my issue. I had a Sansui FR-1080 with a high mass tonearm mismatched with an an Ortofon OM-10 MM cartridge. I was getting low frequency woofer wobble but besides that sounded great. I did not think to replace the cart with one much better suited for the type of player.

I replaced the combo with a Sony PS-HX500. With all the 5 star reviews and DSD DAC I thought it was a good deal especially considering needle dr had it on sale for $399. Boy when I hooked it up to my McIntosh MA5200 phono stage (speakers Polk Audio LSi25) I thought what a POS! It is extremely noisy and I haven't even dropped the needle (yes stylus I just like the phrase). When I turned the motor on I heard clicks when I turned the unit off I heard clicks all audible through the speakers. With the volume at 50% the noise was so audible at listening position I thought it was a grounding issue. Tried everything nope... Compared to the Sansui, the Sansui it was dead quiet until I dropped the needle.

I was about to give up and return it but then read more online about the PS-HX500 and for the price it comes with a pretty decent DAC. So I switched the Sony to line level and put the output into the TUNER renamed to PHONODAC on the MA5200. Wow big difference, quiet and no noise and clicking when switching the motor on. Sony's fault! My guess is that the phono DAC is not defeated nor isolated enough to prevent noise with phono level output. I'm not going to fault the MA5200 since it had no issues with the Sansui.

 

[3db]

There is no doubt that the 3 dimensional sound quality from a good Turntable, Arm, Cartridge is much more musical then a CD, which sounds flat and non dimensional in any comparison. I am very impressed with the many 2 Channel stereo fanatics here and their dedication to Turntables. It brings back alot of great memories. I had a an older Shure V15 Type 5 Cartridge. I loved it in my Phillips 212 Turntable. I regret having sold my collection of MFSL half speed Masters, many others, including UHQR's. (double thick JVC virgin vinyl).

You are sadly mistaken in your assessment. Sound quality depends on the recording engineer, not on the medium. I know this because I own many copies of vinyl and their CD and its been a toss up as to which medium is better.

 

[sterling shoote]

You are sadly mistaken in your assessment. Sound quality depends on the recording engineer, not on the medium. I know this because I own many copies of vinyl and their CD and its been a toss up as to which medium is better.

I second this belief. Thing is, while CD is most often compared to same material recorded to vinyl before the introduction of the CD, modern Dance, Chill, and House tracks often have bass which simply can not be realized on vinyl from digital mastering. Stereo separation can be better with CD. Signal to noise ratio can be better with CD. Dynamic range can be better with CD. Playing time is longer with CD, works better for Handel's Messiah. At any rate, the CD still rules. I think some LP's sound indistinguishable from CD but then there's the pop and crackle of vinyl which undermines the illusion of being there. So, for me, I'm done with vinyl except for the digitizing of records I own which are not available on CD to rip to iTunes.

 

[killdozzer]

A lot has been said. I enjoyed this thread.

Could you comment on vacuum platters? I don't see them today so there must be one reason or the other for their disappearance. Was there something to this patent?

kd

 

[Tankman]

The best TT is the one you can afford. I have had many TT in the past my best TT was back in the late 70's wish I still had that unit. The one I use is a very modest unit with a fairly nice cartridge that cost more than the TT did. You don't have to spend a ton on audio gear to get good sound.

 

[killdozzer]

The best TT is the one you can afford. I have had many TT in the past my best TT was back in the late 70's wish I still that unit. The one I use is a very modest unit with a fairly nice cartridge that cost more than the TT did. You don't have to spend a ton on audio gear to get good sound.

If you don't mind disclosing, Which TT was the one you still wish to own? I'm looking into second hand market and any recommendation is welcome.

 

[Tankman]

If you don't mind disclosing, Which TT was the one you still wish to own? I'm looking into second hand market and any recommendation is welcome.

killdozzor, it was a realistic turntable it cost me 399.00 back in 78. The spec on that unit where outstanding. 399, back than was like spending umm 1200, today terms of what money value was.
I replace the cartridge that came with that unit with a high end one paid 499, wife had a fit when I came home with the box with the cartridge in it. As she put it quote: you paid 500 buck on a record player needle? lolo...Awe the good old days.. but baby wait tell you hear what this will do for our music...she rolled her eyes at me, and puffed at the same time didn't say a word to me the rest of the day. At that time in my life 500 bucks was about a weeks of gross wages. The mortgage payment was about 1/3 of what that cartridge cost...lolo.. About two weeks later she busted out we need to talk I think we should have separate checking accounts...lolo...aww...the good ole days I tell ya...By the way that VU meter as your Avatar, sure looks like the two VU meters I had on my Carver amp from back in the day. Analog...best sound reproduction in my book. Oh let's not forget "mosfet amp design" that was before digital CDs came alone and messed up everything for Us first generation True audiophiles...lol..

Dam autocorrect, its a blessing or a curse..like audio I guess it's how you perceive it to be.
mike

 

[Tankman]

Wow I wish I had read this much sooner but the thread was buried and did not easily come up in searches. Thank you for writing this article.

I now understand my issue. I had a Sansui FR-1080 with a high mass tonearm mismatched with an an Ortofon OM-10 MM cartridge. I was getting low frequency woofer wobble but besides that sounded great. I did not think to replace the cart with one much better suited for the type of player.

I replaced the combo with a Sony PS-HX500. With all the 5 star reviews and DSD DAC I thought it was a good deal especially considering needle dr had it on sale for $399. Boy when I hooked it up to my McIntosh MA5200 phono stage (speakers Polk Audio LSi25) I thought what a POS! It is extremely noisy and I haven't even dropped the needle (yes stylus I just like the phrase). When I turned the motor on I heard clicks when I turned the unit off I heard clicks all audible through the speakers. With the volume at 50% the noise was so audible at listening position I thought it was a grounding issue. Tried everything nope... Compared to the Sansui, the Sansui it was dead quiet until I dropped the needle.

I was about to give up and return it but then read more online about the PS-HX500 and for the price it comes with a pretty decent DAC. So I switched the Sony to line level and put the output into the TUNER renamed to PHONODAC on the MA5200. Wow big difference, quiet and no noise and clicking when switching the motor on. Sony's fault! My guess is that the phono DAC is not defeated nor isolated enough to prevent noise with phono level output. I'm not going to fault the MA5200 since it had no issues with the Sansui.

This guy gets it!.. Sweet very sweet set-up for not a lot of coin. See what's holding up his awesome vinyl collection huh, some old stero sounding CD,s to the left in his media case. The photo of the baby is icing on the cake.

 

[Tankman]

You are sadly mistaken in your assessment. Sound quality depends on the recording engineer, not on the medium. I know this because I own many copies of vinyl and their CD and its been a toss up as to which medium is better.

All hail to this post, this post should be nominated for post of the year on audioholic's website. Outstanding post in my book. 3db, carry on brother audiophile enthusiast who knows that no matter what gear you have it All starts with who engineered what ever was in the Studio at the time of the master recording. Don't believe him? Play a crappy engineered vinyl or CD on a $10,000 pair of speakers and come back and tell us how it sounded. Than play that same cappy engineered vinyl or CD recording on a paired of 500 buck speakers..Some of us just don't want to pay a lot of coin just to hear a crappy engineered recorded music.

 

[Tankman]

Who needs a marketer? What possible benefit does mankind derive from that tribe?

Man the post in this Thread are some of the best I have read from any site. I am sure happy I joined up on Audioholic's site. This is the best site to come in and find some of the best advice on audio gear or pick-up some great tips. This site has been my go to site when looking for great advice on gear or tips. TLSGuy, "What possible benefit does mankind derive from that tribe?" Probably one of the best questions ever put down on a Thread. In my book all them dudes do is Jack up the price of the gear we want to buy with all the fancy studies...But umm..to a point with out the marketers input and researching who wants to buy what at what price point for a set Market aka..us peeps who can't afford to buy a Krell or Pass Lab gear..we wouldn't have all the great gear of Onkyo, Sony, or Kentwood...lol..to buy! Carry on audio/video enthusiast. Wish I had a job as a marketer I hear the job pays well. Just jacking around no harm intendant at others post on this Thread.

 

[sterling shoote]

Man the post in this Thread are some of the best I have read from any site. I am sure happy I joined up on Audioholic's site. This is the best site to come in and find some of the best advice on audio gear or pick-up some great tips. This site has been my go to site when looking for great advice on gear or tips. TLSGuy, "What possible benefit does mankind derive from that tribe?" Probably one of the best questions ever put down on a Thread. In my book all them dudes do is Jack up the price of the gear we want to buy with all the fancy studies...But umm..to a point with out the marketers input and researching who wants to buy what at what price point for a set Market aka..us peeps who can't afford to buy a Krell or Pass Lab gear..we wouldn't have all the great gear of Onkyo, Sony, or Kentwood...lol..to buy! Carry on audio/video enthusiast. Wish I had a job as a marketer I hear the job pays well. Just jacking around no harm intendant at others post on this Thread.

I've been a hired gun in the marketing and advertising business for almost 40 years and I agree somewhat with TLSGuy's appraisal of marketing folks. The late Bill Ruger of Ruger Firearms, as I understand it, was very successful at designing firearms destined to be popular without getting any marketing guidance. He simply produced what appealed to his own sense of what was compelling to possess. There are other market leaders, dead and present, who have been somewhat maverick like Bill Ruger, making stuff without a care in the world about the product they brought to life being accepted . Sony could use such leadership today. At any rate, marketing is a necessity for most businesses today, since the MBA's at the top are too emotionally detached from what ever product the business is selling. These folks have little imagination. They are just filling the shoes of the Bill Gates of the world, not really contributing much to the originators vision. It's just the way it is. Another example would be Thomas Edison and General Electric Corporation. Since Tom died what has GE done that's memorable. Of course, they've done much, I'm sure; but, I think you get the idea. When an imaginative guy builds a company from an idea that he believes in then passes the reins of the company to another, it kind of all goes to pieces unless those reins are picked up by someone else with an imagination.

 

[Tankman]

I've been a hired gun in the marketing and advertising business for almost 40 years and I agree somewhat with TLSGuy's appraisal of marketing folks. The late Bill Ruger of Ruger Firearms, as I understand it, was very successful at designing firearms destined to be popular without getting any marketing guidance. He simply produced what appealed to his own sense of what was compelling to possess. There are other market leaders, dead and present, who have been somewhat maverick like Bill Ruger, making stuff without a care in the world about the product they brought to life being accepted . Sony could use such leadership today. At any rate, marketing is a necessity for most businesses today, since the MBA's at the top are too emotionally detached from what ever product the business is selling. These folks have little imagination. They are just filling the shoes of the Bill Gates of the world, not really contributing much to the originators vision. It's just the way it is. Another example would be Thomas Edison and General Electric Corporation. Since Tom died what has GE done that's memorable. Of course, they've done much, I'm sure; but, I think you get the idea. When an imaginative guy builds a company from an idea that he believes in then passes the reins of the company to another, it kind of all goes to pieces unless those reins are picked up by someone else with an imagination.

Man you ole timers in here are outstanding. I really ment no harm with my post about all they do is Jack up the price of gear we want to buy. Thing is in the world of business so to speak with "Marketers" we really would not have all the affordable audio/video gear that us regular folks could afford with the Market research that you guys do to bring back to the investors. So yep we do need Marketers. I jumped in on the post because of the passion of this Thread. Not to be mean but just to enjoy you guys post, they are really good reads. The part of "they just jack up the price" is my way of picking a lil, well cause with out everyone that is involved all the way to us and buyers of audio video gear this may not be a hobby and what fun would that be. It's all important really to the guys who sits at a table in a Factory assembling audio video gear to the business owners who sell it to us to the marketers who did the research so the business owners can make a profit with us lil guys having not to take out a 2nd mortgage on our homes. Thank you for sharing you input on a hobby I love so much. It is one of the sides of this hobby that surely goes unappreciated.

Mike

 

[killdozzer]

This guy gets it!.. Sweet very sweet set-up for not a lot of coin. See what's holding up his awesome vinyl collection huh, some old stero sounding CD,s to the left in his media case. The photo of the baby is icing on the cake.

Calling any rig with a Mcintosh in it "not a lot of coin" must mean you've moved far away from someone who had troubles with his lady for a 500$ needle.

So, you're not disclosing the model of the TT?

As far as marketing go I'm with @TLS Guy I honestly can't stand anything other than informative marketing. You can tell me: it's here, we've built it (or whatever), these are the specs (features), this is where you can buy it, here's a pic. That's it. If you tell me that my car choice speaks of me and my clothes should express how I feel about myself and "if I tell you what brands of audio gear I own you'll tell me who I am" (all that sort of BS), you'll get me pretty mad.

I do want to know if there's a new restaurant in my town, but don't tell me they have the best chef. I do want to know if I can buy SVS subs in my town, but don't tell me there's a magical experience of shopping at the audio-shop that does have SVS and that I'll feel... (insert what you want; better, fulfilled, smart, appreciative...)

kd

 

[Tankman]

Calling any rig with a Mcintosh in it "not a lot of coin" must mean you've moved far away from someone who had troubles with his lady for a 500$ needle.

So, you're not disclosing the model of the TT?

As far as marketing go I'm with @TLS Guy I honestly can't stand anything other than informative marketing. You can tell me: it's here, we've built it (or whatever), these are the specs (features), this is where you can buy it, here's a pic. That's it. If you tell me that my car choice speaks of me and my clothes should express how I feel about myself and "if I tell you what brands of audio gear I own you'll tell me who I am" (all that sort of BS), you'll get me pretty mad.

I do want to know if there's a new restaurant in my town, but don't tell me they have the best chef. I do want to know if I can buy SVS subs in my town, but don't tell me there's a magical experience of shopping at the audio-shop that does have SVS and that I'll feel... (insert what you want; better, fulfilled, smart, appreciative...)

kd

The model nurmber was a Realistic lab 400. I had to Google it couldn't remember the exact model number many years has passed since than. It wasn't an elite turntable by no means, but back in the day wasn't any internet or much of anything being advertised around the small town I grew up in for audio much less video. Video was about as much of a afterthought when it came to a " hobby" so to speak. If your color tv was 25"tube with stereo speakers in it you did pretty good trying to find one like that. Video didn't really come into play until VHS came into the scene. So my point in my post about marketing is a very valid point that I made,
the only way to receive any marketing information on audio/video products came in the form of a newspaper or flyers that arrived in your mailbox at your house. In my post you can see I poked fun at "marketers" quote: "with all their "fancy" so yeah totally agreed with TLSGuy, In his post its one paragraph and his "tribe" was pretty much spot-on, though being lack for a better word I would have chosen for marketers. But he didn't need to go into a whole short story, I caught exactly what he was trying to convey cause of My experience of many years in this hobby of buying and selling audio/video gear. But since you brought up say any one with Macintosh gear has nothing to do with affording good audio gear for not a lot of coin. You missed my point or it must have went over your head? Don't know can't say how you think or feel. But your cheap shot you took at me for posting my sharing of a 500 buck audio cartridge is nothing new in forums like this. But just to let you know my marriage with the mother of my children lasted over 27 years after that day I came home with my brand new expensive turntable cartridge. Yep over 30 wonderful years of Bliss! Bet you thought I was getting ready to say marriage? No my friend the loving bliss with this hobby of audio first for me anyways than video 2nd can and will never be understood by some of the "elitist". After all what could elitist bring to the table in a "tribe"like that.

Mike

autocorrect blessing or a curse.. depends on how you look at it I guess.. smartphones just ain't so smart after all huh?..lolo

 

[killdozzer]

The model nurmber was a Realistic lab 400. I had to Google it couldn't remember the exact model number many years has passed since than. It wasn't an elite turntable by no means, but back in the day wasn't any internet or much of anything being advertised around the small town I grew up in for audio much less video. Video was about as much of a afterthought when it came to a " hobby" so to speak. If your color tv was 25"tube with stereo speakers in it you did pretty good trying to find one like that. Video didn't really come into play until VHS came into the scene. So my point in my post about marketing is a very valid point that I made,
the only way to receive any marketing information on audio/video products came in the form of a newspaper or flyers that arrived in your mailbox at your house. In my post you can see I poked fun at "marketers" quote: "with all their "fancy" so yeah totally agreed with TLSGuy, In his post its one paragraph and his "tribe" was pretty much spot-on, though being lack for a better word I would have chosen for marketers. But he didn't need to go into a whole short story, I caught exactly what he was trying to convey cause of My experience of many years in this hobby of buying and selling audio/video gear. But since you brought up say any one with Macintosh gear has nothing to do with affording good audio gear for not a lot of coin. You missed my point or it must have went over your head? Don't know can't say how you think or feel. But your cheap shot you took at me for posting my sharing of a 500 buck audio cartridge is nothing new in forums like this. But just to let you know my marriage with the mother of my children lasted over 27 years after that day I came home with my brand new expensive turntable cartridge. Yep over 30 wonderful years of Bliss! Bet you thought I was getting ready to say marriage? No my friend the loving bliss with this hobby of audio first for me anyways than video 2nd can and will never be understood by some of the "elitist". After all what could elitist bring to the table in a "tribe"like that.

Mike

autocorrect blessing or a curse.. depends on how you look at it I guess.. smartphones just ain't so smart after all huh?..lolo

You really got me wrong. I wasn't taking any cheap shots at you. My apologies if it came out wrong. What I said was that you must be doing better now in your life, regardless of marriage, because back then 500$ (or in today's money 1200$ as you said) was a lot and today you describe Mcintosh as "not a lot of coin". Their products go well beyond 1200$. So you must be doing better. I meant that literally, no hidden or ill-intended subtext.

As far as marketing goes, I was just adding to the whole conversation. That bit was "in general". I wasn't trying to say that anything you said was wrong.

Thanks for the info on TT!

 

[killdozzer]

@Tankman this here would suggest it was really a good TT.

 

[Tankman]

You really got me wrong. I wasn't taking any cheap shots at you. My apologies if it came out wrong. What I said was that you must be doing better now in your life, regardless of marriage, because back then 500$ (or in today's money 1200$ as you said) was a lot and today you describe Mcintosh as "not a lot of coin". Their products go well beyond 1200$. So you must be doing better. I meant that literally, no hidden or ill-intended subtext.

As far as marketing goes, I was just adding to the whole conversation. That bit was "in general". I wasn't trying to say that anything you said was wrong.

Thanks for the info on TT!

Aww, lol..I went back and re-read you post I had just woke up and was just on my first cup of joe. Many apologies my friend, Don't know how old you are but sometimes us ole goats just can't think to clear in morning untill coffee and a Camel smoke. I feel like a a$$ coming at you like that. Again sorry about that. I think you know how very subjective audio really is. And I feel again me just saying and speaking only for myself that I know anyone who is in this hobby and it is a hobby except for the one selling the gear it's a business, that really good audio gear can be had for not a lot of coin. Lot's of higher-end gear can be had on the open used market. Umm...but I believe marketers, don't have very much of any...umm..let's use desire for the business end? no money in it for them..dam marketers..lol...j/kin.

 

[Tankman]

@Tankman this here would suggest it was really a good TT.

You are with out a doubt a very understanding person. You post that link on the Lab-400 I just added that link as a short cut to my dam smartphone that keeps changing up my post with typos with it's autocorrect. I really hate autocorrect but it can be a time saver I guess. lol.. anyways I can't thank you enough for taking the time to find that article on the Realistic Lab- 400 turntable. I have and never claim to be a expert in the field of audio/ video if anything one can say I am a expert hobbyist? Man I got to stop hanging around audiophiles I sure don't want to be coined an "elitist"
again that last sentence was me picking at myself. I love this hobby and I am very passionate about it. Thank you for not coming back in here to kick me in the rear for coming at you like I did. The link you posted for me to check out the Lab 400 warms my heart. You just went to the top of my list of Audio Enthusiast to follow!. Now lets go get some of dem marketers who hang out in here and smack up on dem dudes!..umm...no 2nd thought we kind of need them guys..

Mike

 

[killdozzer]

You are with out a doubt a very understanding person. You post that link on the Lab-400 I just added that link as a short cut to my dam smartphone that keeps changing up my post with typos with it's autocorrect. I really hate autocorrect but it can be a time saver I guess. lol.. anyways I can't thank you enough for taking the time to find that article on the Realistic Lab- 400 turntable. I have and never claim to be a expert in the field of audio/ video if anything one can say I am a expert hobbyist? Man I got to stop hanging around audiophiles I sure don't want to be coined an "elitist"
again that last sentence was me picking at myself. I love this hobby and I am very passionate about it. Thank you for not coming back in here to kick me in the rear for coming at you like I did. The link you posted for me to check out the Lab 400 warms my heart. You just went to the top of my list of Audio Enthusiast to follow!. Now lets go get some of dem marketers who hang out in here and smack up on dem dudes!..umm...no 2nd thought we kind of need them guys..

Mike

It's fine. I'm really glad it was just a misunderstanding. I'm not much of an audio connoisseur, I also came here to learn and I do everyday. It is fascinating, this world of hi-fi.

On-line communication has a lot of flaws most of them coming from the fact that it is deprived of everything outside language and symbols. So I expect every now and then that even positive people get into trouble. I'm no exception ask anyone. It is different when you can see a friendly face speaking to you, in that case there's usually less trouble.