How Does Morality Change?

[highfigh]

LOL . Rush Limbaugh, and all the other Limbaugh wanna-bes, are nothing more than the carnival barkers of the right wing. I wouldn't listen to him if he paid me six figures.
The prosecutors & FBI acted that way because a good case can be made that Stone might flee or destroy evidence. I wouldn't put myself in a position where I might have any sympathy at all for that lying scumbag.

Not sure why anyone who might do what he's suspected of would keep any records at home.

 

[Hetfield]

They hate Trump so much they want to oppose everything he wants.

Did you see the video from The View, where Whoopie admitted that they and the media jumped on the Covington kids in MAGA hats who supposedly 'confronted' Nathan Phillips? Listen to Joy Behar's comments- she said "the media are desperate to get Trump out of office" and "there's so much circumstantial evidence..."- when did circumstantial evidence become 'proof'?

And I can give you a hundred incidences from the right. Conspiracy theories that lead to pizza shops being the target of violence. Don't give me that bullshit.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[lovinthehd]

They hate Trump so much they want to oppose everything he wants.

Did you see the video from The View, where Whoopie admitted that they and the media jumped on the Covington kids in MAGA hats who supposedly 'confronted' Nathan Phillips? Listen to Joy Behar's comments- she said "the media are desperate to get Trump out of office" and "there's so much circumstantial evidence..."- when did circumstantial evidence become 'proof'?

The drumpf I've disliked intensely since the 80s when I first noticed him. He's done nothing but made me like him less since. He was not prepared for the presidency, lies constantly, and generally what he wants doesn't sit well with me. Hate might sum it up well enough. Just a turd of immense stench.

Bottom line is drumpf "morals" are very low, as seemingly are those of many of his supporters....

Trial by media has sped up with internet social media, but that goes both ways....

 

[highfigh]

And I can give you a hundred incidences from the right. Conspiracy theories that lead to pizza shops being the target of violence. Don't give me that bullshit.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

What conspiracy theory? Do you want a clip of her saying this?

 

[highfigh]

The drumpf I've disliked intensely since the 80s when I first noticed him. He's done nothing but made me like him less since. He was not prepared for the presidency, lies constantly, and generally what he wants doesn't sit well with me. Hate might sum it up well enough. Just a turd of immense stench.

Bottom line is drumpf "morals" are very low, as seemingly are those of many of his supporters....

Trial by media has sped up with internet social media, but that goes both ways....

And the Left is taking the moral high ground? GMAB!

 

[lovinthehd]

And the Left is taking the moral high ground? GMAB!

It doesn't take much to have higher moral ground than the drumpfs, pretty low bar there....

 

[highfigh]

Human Nature, on parade.

 

[lovinthehd]

Human Nature, on parade.

Wow, that's deep.

 

[Swerd]

Not sure why anyone who might do what he's suspected of would keep any records at home.

I saw this opinion piece on CNN online, and thought of you.

Roger Stone must have made Mueller really angry

The approach to this arrest makes clear that Roger Stone and possibly his attorneys have done something provocative enough to make the usually low profile and careful special prosecutor extraordinarily angry. Stone was not afforded the customary voluntary surrender option usually seen in white collar criminal cases. Most likely, the raid was intended to send a clear message to other witnesses and potential defendants that witness tampering, a federal felony with a sentence of up to 20 years if it involves physical intimidation, will not be tolerated by the polite but tough former FBI director. The other five counts in the indictment each carry hefty potential sentences of as much as five years each, subjecting Stone to a maximum exposure of 45 years in an ill-fitting federal jumpsuit.​

Some times, we appear to agree on things.

 

[ryanosaur]

I think it highly ironic that the lesson about walls is lost on us today. I remember the Berlin wall. Anybody else? And what it meant and represented?

Oppression and division.

@killdozzer, Perhaps you have some insight about the former Eastern Bloc countries, their strongman Dictators, and life in them?

@herbu, what does it matter if views change? Even if somebody wanted a wall 5 years ago and doesn't now? Whether it is political motivation or an actual change in thought (dare I call it enlightenment?... no. ) that drives it? (That is not morality, though.)

(Mind, @herbu, I did try to look at the philosophical aspect of your question in several posts already, without directly getting political. Your question, at face value, is important and valid: the politics is a red herring.)

On the other hand, the clear nationalistic, isolationist, exclusionist, racist, fear-mongered rhetoric in support of building this wall IS immoral. Of that, there is and can be no doubt.

The Soviet backed government of East Germany killed many people trying to cross to the West, yet people still succeeded. How would this wall be any different? In symbology? In practice? In protecting life?

The only life of interest being protected is that of the dying white-male-majority leadership class.

I am neither Democrat nor Republican. I am not interested in politics any longer, beyond what is of the greatest good for the citizenry of the United States. I was raised in a conservative, Midwest household. I have no ill-memories of my childhood while growing up under Reagan. But as I pointed out before, Reagan could not be a Republican in today's GOP.
The modern republican party is a duplicitous tool of the wealthy which uses the evangelical population as a White-velvet coozy to support and shore up its base.

The single greatest threat to our democratic republic is the voter apathy which is oft lamented and well documented for any that care to look. It is OUR responsibility to guide our elected leaders, not just rubber stamp their ascendancy to the leadership class of McConnell, Schumer, Pelosi, Cheney, Bush, Clinton... or any other. Voter turnout in most elections is abysmal because they aren't glorious. But those School Board members, local Sheriffs, city council/assembly people, state assembly... This is where the future of our country starts. We turn our backs on these contests, and we lose the single greatest part of our process: Choosing Our Leaders.

I'm done now.

and

 

[nbk13nw]

I guess my only question would be why not go thru a port of entry. Seems to me that anyone crossing anywhere else is either transporting things they should not be or just wanting to circumvent the legal process of entry. And the comparison of the Berlin Wall to our border security is a little out of whack. Seems they were trying to keep people in more so than out.

 

[mtrycrafts]

On income over $10 million.

And, at one time there was a 92% marginal tax bracket that is rarely brought up. And the country prospered.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...or extreme Socialism is a good way to operate, ....

Is that like some of the Scandinavian countries do? Healthcare from cradle to grave?

 

[mtrycrafts]

...
.... How would this wall be any different? In symbology? In practice? In protecting life?

...

Well, They are digging under it already, a whole lot of tunnels.
Recently, withing the last week or two, over a 100 used tunnels to get across and presented themselves to border guards for amnesty.
It will be a very, very expensive do nothing wall just to satisfy an itch.

 

[Swerd]

I certainly have not read any Ayn Rand, nor do I plan on doing so. So I'll have to respond to your near-fascination position of this economic fetishism some other time, when I'm not so fired up. Right now, my view of her so-called economic philosophy is that it's about as relevant as Marxism.

@Irvrobinson

A day after being fired up, I now wish I hadn't said "near-fascination". A better word would be "position".

Still, being somewhat to the center on economics, compared to Ayn Rand, is still quite far from the center.

This morning, after coffee, I read the Ayn Rand page on Wikipedia, the internet version of Cliff's Notes. I think she had a sad personal history especially in Russia during & after the Revolution , and she suffered from taking too much Benzedrine. And I think her followers are seriously wrong.

 

[highfigh]

Is that like some of the Scandinavian countries do? Healthcare from cradle to grave?

No, not how they provide, in how they control.

 

[highfigh]

And, at one time there was a 92% marginal tax bracket that is rarely brought up. And the country prospered.

And that was used as a way to pay for WWII but yes, the country prospered. If this country had the same 'Can Do' attitude they had after the War and if parents instilled some discipline in their kids, we would have fewer problems. I do think 70% is too much but I would prefer that Congress spend less.

As an additional problem that too many want to fix with money, I think the education system needs to be improved, greatly. Stop teaching for the tests and get people ready to work in various fields with vocational training for those who won't go to traditional colleges. I doubt higher education would want that.

One thing many of the Communist countries did is make sure people were educated. While they still had peasants, farmers and others who weren't on track to go into business or technical fields, the ones I have met who spent more time in school received a very well-rounded education. However, the US doesn't necessarily recognize their qualifications and that's wrong- they should be tested and allowed to do what they were trained for.

 

[Old Onkyo]

If America were truly interested in stopping immigrants from crossing the borders they would prosecute companies that employ them.

Contrary to the bullshit notion that all of these people are rapist and murders.

If the jobs aren’t here the allure of a more prosperous life is no longer there.

Immigrants have and will always be a cheap source of labor.

Where are the raids on businesses that employ “ illegal aliens?” I live in the Los Angeles area. The majority of hotel chains, restaurants, landscaping, cooks, housekeepers, car washes, construction work is performed daily by undocumented workers.

When was the last time the CEO of Marriot was arrested for hiring undocumented workers? Never.

The existence of cheap undocumented labor solidifies most Americans so called middle class existence.


It’s easier to believe the lie that the people crossing the border from the south are criminals, and terrorist
Than to admit that America benefits from their existence as long as they function in the shadows.

Prosecute The businesses large and small that hire them instead of arresting parents dropping their children off at school.

What we are doing now is the equivalent of arresting drug users while allowing pushers to go free.

That is why the wall is immoral.

 

[highfigh]

I saw this opinion piece on CNN online, and thought of you.

Roger Stone must have made Mueller really angry

The approach to this arrest makes clear that Roger Stone and possibly his attorneys have done something provocative enough to make the usually low profile and careful special prosecutor extraordinarily angry. Stone was not afforded the customary voluntary surrender option usually seen in white collar criminal cases. Most likely, the raid was intended to send a clear message to other witnesses and potential defendants that witness tampering, a federal felony with a sentence of up to 20 years if it involves physical intimidation, will not be tolerated by the polite but tough former FBI director. The other five counts in the indictment each carry hefty potential sentences of as much as five years each, subjecting Stone to a maximum exposure of 45 years in an ill-fitting federal jumpsuit.​

Some times, we appear to agree on things.

Maybe he can have one made with a clear panel that lets his Nixon tattoo show (WTF is the deal with that??????????).

 

[ryanosaur]

Maybe he can have one made with a clear panel that lets his Nixon tattoo show (WTF is the deal with that??????????).

#PositiveLifeChoice