Hosting infamous amp test

[mulester7]

I get the feeling that in your mind you associate objectivists with "cheap n' nasty" receivers and subjectivists with "higher quality" separates, now why is that?

I do find it bizarre that there are so many subjectivists here, I mean, it's like fundamentalist Christians chatting happily on a board dedicated to atheists. The religion analogy can be stretched even further than that too; it really is quite amazing how similar the arguments and mindsets are.

.....on the first part, I don't think "cheap n' nasty" at all concerning receivers....the first real one I ever had was a four-channel matrix Akai, I think it was, not sure, back in about '73, and I had a discrete reel-to-reel that was four-channel with four heads pointing the same direction....I got discrete 4-corner with special reel-to-reel tapes.....I loved that receiver for it's pretty blue lights, and found the music great....then I got older and sought the best I could get....Bose was next, haha......you lost me on the second part, but I'm glad to hear you thinking along Christian lines....Adrian, I say we should get it back to sweet spots with different amps being compared, using the same source, pre, and speakers....your turn......

 

[AdrianMills]

you lost me on the second part, but I'm glad to hear you thinking along Christian lines....Adrian, I say we should get it back to sweet spots with different amps being compared, using the same source, pre, and speakers....your turn......

I'm an atheist through and through (I'm also a member of the Norwegian secular Humanist Society - yes, Welsh guy living in Norway - although I'm not entirely sure that I actually agree with all of their philosophy any more). I assume that you're a faithful Christian then? Why doesn't that surprise me?

As for comparing amps, well, I thought we were doing the polite chit-chat thing because the contributors to this thread have said all that can be said and we've reached an impasse? I mean, anything else without absolute proof is just more of the same opinion isn't it?

 

[mulester7]

I'm an atheist through and through (I'm also a member of the Norwegian secular Humanist Society - yes, Welsh guy living in Norway - although I'm not entirely sure that I actually agree with all of their philosophy any more). I assume that you're a faithful Christian then? Why doesn't that surprise me?

As for comparing amps, well, I thought we were doing the polite chit-chat thing because the contributors to this thread have said all that can be said and we've reached an impasse? I mean, anything else without absolute proof is just more of the same opinion isn't it?

.....no, Adrian, you're a human through and through with 206 bones and about 500 muscles that came from a microscopic egg....how can you feel that just "happened?"....I'm 57, what age are you?.....

 

[Sheep]

Oh no!

You've opened a box! I think it's a Panda Box, or something...

SheepStar

 

[mulester7]

I do find it bizarre that there are so many subjectivists here, I mean, it's like fundamentalist Christians chatting happily on a board dedicated to atheists.

......Adrian, I guess we need more Christians who own Sacred Vintage Mac to report, haha......

 

[mulester7]

You've opened a box! I think it's a Panda Box, or something...

SheepStar

.....Sheep, was the word, "Pandora"?.....

 

[The Dukester]

.....Sheep, was the word, "Pandora"?.....

Hey, Mule, you forget that Sheep lives in Canada. They may have panda bears there so why not Panda's box?

Actually, now that I think about it, they are all in China. Oh, well. Sorry to continue hijacking the thread!

 

[AdrianMills]

.....no, Adrian, you're a human through and through with 206 bones and about 500 muscles that came from a microscopic egg....how can you feel that just "happened?"....I'm 57, what age are you?.....

I have other places where I debate religion; not only that but I think Clint would be well pissed if we turned this into a religious discussion.

And I'm much older than I'd like to be. Mainly because Scandinavian twenty-somethings in the summer are... something else.

Has anyone else ever told you that your avatar is extremely annoying?

 

[Audioholics]

Does seem to be getting off topic a bit... lol

 

[AdrianMills]

Does seem to be getting off topic a bit... lol

Oh, but you're more than welcome to join in.

How old are you?

 

[Sheep]

Oh, but you're more than welcome to join in.

How old are you?

19 Now

I said panda's box because I was trying to lighten the mood. As usual, I have failed. Threads like this are pointless because neither side will yeild no matter how much proof they have.

SheepStar

 

[AdrianMills]

19 Now

I said panda's box because I was trying to lighten the mood. As usual, I have failed. Threads like this are pointless because neither side will yeild no matter how much proof they have.

SheepStar

There are no "sides" as such, just individuals that make up their mind based on the objective evidence that we have or their subjective listening experiences.

Given the known psychological issues with subjective listening it's highly probable that in the vast majority of cases, modern SS amps do sound the same.

If you guys could produce objective evidence to the contrary then I would change my opinion to "SS amps usually sound the same" unless you could prove that all the objective evidence we currently have is totally flawed, in which case I would say, “SS amps probably sound different.”

 

[Nick250]

19 Now

I said panda's box because I was trying to lighten the mood. As usual, I have failed. Threads like this are pointless because neither side will yeild no matter how much proof they have.
SheepStar

If it were me, I would follow Sheeps comments and move on.

Nick

 

[mtrycrafts]

WOW, mtry....FIVE thousand posts and you haven't broken stride. I gotta get some of those vities......

Hey, you guys make it easy
Some places the abuse was intolerable even 4 letter words flew in my direction.

Thanks.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I guess my point was that some amps won't drive some speakers to ANY level much less within their specs. If an amp won't drive a 2 ohm load and you have 2 ohm speakers, it's a problem.

Yes, of course. Not sure who said anything different. Is this what you have?

So what we're saying here is that if I have 2 amps - both rated at 100WPC into 8 ohms and 200WPC into 4 ohms. But 1 of them will drive a 2 ohm highly capacitive load just fine to pretty much full power,

No, not from either one of those amps will this happen, or it would be rated for 2 ohms.


but the other can only muster MAYBE 5W before it goes into protection mode, then I have to handicap the more stable amp with the better power supply to keep it below the point where the other one shuts down and craps out? Sorry - not buying it.

If you have such speakers, 2 ohm impedance, you need amps rated to 2 ohms, plain and simple.


And yes - I'll guarantee you that an OTL-1 Futterman and pretty much any other amp you put against it (driven within their specs) will sound different.


I checked that test as well. I didn't see anything indicating audible differences even with the Futterman.


Mating an amp and speakers is not just throwing 2 things together. You need to look at the requirements of the speakers and then select an amp that will give them what they need. Not all speakers place the same or even close to the same demands on an amplifier.

Obviously not all speakers are the same. And not all play at the same levels, same room size, etc. But, there is nothing magical, especially when driven withing design limits, then there is no magic at all.

 

[AdrianMills]

BTW, the original site http://bruce.coppola.name/audio/Amp_Sound.pdf is back online if anyone is interested...

 

[mtrycrafts]

BTW, the original site http://bruce.coppola.name/audio/Amp_Sound.pdf is back online if anyone is interested...

I hate it when these sites go down or totally off just when you need them, like that coat hanger and digital signal passage through it, flawlessly

 

[AdrianMills]

I hate it when these sites go down or totally off just when you need them, like that coat hanger and digital signal passage through it, flawlessly

I came across an amusing post several months ago on AVS that was written by some guy that had a brother who was a PhD in audio engineering - apparently this brother of his built him a $50,000 custom audio system. Anyway, one night they had some friends around to do some listening and they wanted to test some cables - during the test the PhD brother substitutes the good cables for a couple of cables he'd cobbled together from coat hanger wire... and not only did no one notice a difference but they all said they sounded good. Cool huh?

I wish I'd bookmarked that as I can't find it again.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I came across an amusing post several months ago on AVS that was written by some guy that had a brother who was a PhD in audio engineering - apparently this brother of his built him a $50,000 custom audio system. Anyway, one night they had some friends around to do some listening and they wanted to test some cables - during the test the PhD brother substitutes the good cables for a couple of cables he'd cobbled together from coat hanger wire... and not only did no one notice a difference but they all said they sounded good. Cool huh?

I wish I'd bookmarked that as I can't find it again.

Yes, that would have been good to keep. I noticed in my lurking there in the CD section someone making claims against coat hangers and how much the skin effect would cause audible problems Too funny.

 

[AdrianMills]

Yes, that would have been good to keep. I noticed in my lurking there in the CD section someone making claims against coat hangers and how much the skin effect would cause audible problems Too funny.

I did a little searching and I found it... it was actually here that the post was made and not on AVS - no wonder I lost track of it when I was looking in the wrong place!

It's a couple of years old so maybe you haven't seen it... The incredible Dr Bob...

A pity he made so few posts.