HexOmega's sub recommendation thread...

[HexOmega]

Room Volume: 1300 Sq. Ft. (roughly square)

Output: 80% Music, 20% HT (All types music and movies, accurate music performance is the top priority, from Cello to Kick Drum)

Budget: ~$600, less is better of course

WAF: Moderate to high, smaller is better

Current setup: Yamaha RX-V667, Mirage FRx-5 tower mains (bi-amped, roll off around 40Hz), matching center and surrounds (roll off around 60Hz). HT source is a PS3, display is a 50" Panny Plasma.

Looking at: Epik Legend, SVS SB12-NSD, Emotiva Ultra 12, Hsu VTF-1 (in that order)

Footnotes:

-The Epik Legend is "too big" as per "the boss" but I'm willing to deal with complaining if it's truly the best in the ~$500 class.

-The SVS looks ideal (aside from diminished output) but is also at the top of my budget.

-The Emo is on sale currently and reviewed well, but I'm not overly excited about it.

-I picked the HSU VTF-1 over the -2 because the latter is too large.

-I prefer the sound of sealed subs but might be willing to flex for the right product.

-I would like to avoid corner placement; mid-wall would be the best fit for our room.


So, what say you? TIA.

 

[mike c]

is your "room volume" correct?

1300 square feet or cubic feet?

 

[HexOmega]

is your "room volume" correct?

1300 square feet or cubic feet?

No, I'm an idiot for missing that.

Cubic Feet is correct.

It's a small living room.

Thanks Mike.

 

[mike c]

then a sealed sub would be awesome for that room

 

[rnatalli]

I'd go with the Legend in that room.

 

[GranteedEV]

Not one, but two Emptova Ultra 10s would cost $700 and give you sweet bass.

 

[GlocksRock]

The Epik or SVS gets my nod.

 

[its phillip]

I think any of the four choices would be just fine in that room.

 

[sholling]

Unless you're in an apartment with easily upset neighbors I would limit my search to subs that comfortably extend down to at least 20hz. A lot of small ported subs only reach down to 25hz and a some small sealed subs run out of steam below 30hz - especially if they aren't in a corner. It just depends on your priority But I'd probably lean toward ported for movies, sealed for music. I have the Emotiva 12 (100% music room) and while it sounds awesome in a small room it doesn't have much below 30hz and you'll really want corner placement to get the most out of it.

 

[jostenmeat]

HexOmega, forgive me for not accurately remembering a couple of details in your life, but, how long will you be in the rental before moving out?

You are planning on moving into a home perhaps?

I would advise waiting until that time if money is an important issue, which I believe it is here.

Don't ask me how I know!!

For the meanwhile, you can run your mains as fullrange (assuming moderate level with moderate distance in moderate room), and tell the receiver that the sub is NOT connected. This LFE information will then be rerouted to your mains, but with a greatly reduced signal to protect receiver and speakers.

But, you still get that LFE information.

In all honesty, I bet a lot of stereo mains out there, even without a sub, can annoy plenty of neighbors in apartments.

 

[HexOmega]

then a sealed sub would be awesome for that room

Sweet, thanks Mike!

I'd go with the Legend in that room.

Tempting, stuck between that and the SVS...

Not one, but two Emptova Ultra 10s would cost $700 and give you sweet bass.

Tempting but definitely over-budget and still missing sub-30Hz extension...

The Epik or SVS gets my nod.

That's where I'm at too, trying to choose one...

I think any of the four choices would be just fine in that room.

You're not helping!!

Unless you're in an apartment with easily upset neighbors I would limit my search to subs that comfortably extend down to at least 20hz. A lot of small ported subs only reach down to 25hz and a some small sealed subs run out of steam below 30hz - especially if they aren't in a corner. It just depends on your priority But I'd probably lean toward ported for movies, sealed for music. I have the Emotiva 12 (100% music room) and while it sounds awesome in a small room it doesn't have much below 30hz and you'll really want corner placement to get the most out of it.

The neighbors are not a huge concern right now as my listening is done when they aren't home. My odd schedule allows me to have the house to myself when they're at work/school etc. I'm leaning towards the SVS or Epik at this point, and maybe slightly favoring the SVS as it seems to be a slightly better quality product. Of course the Epik may offer some additional output, but in a room my size, the smaller volume of the SVS is a major plus.

HexOmega, forgive me for not accurately remembering a couple of details in your life, but, how long will you be in the rental before moving out?

You are planning on moving into a home perhaps?

I would advise waiting until that time if money is an important issue, which I believe it is here.

Don't ask me how I know!!

For the meanwhile, you can run your mains as fullrange (assuming moderate level with moderate distance in moderate room), and tell the receiver that the sub is NOT connected. This LFE information will then be rerouted to your mains, but with a greatly reduced signal to protect receiver and speakers.

But, you still get that LFE information.

In all honesty, I bet a lot of stereo mains out there, even without a sub, can annoy plenty of neighbors in apartments.

Jostenmeat,

We'll be in this apartment until approx. October 2012. This coming November is our wedding in Sanibel, FL and we'll use the 11 months remaining on our lease after that to search for a house.

I've actually already been doing what you recommend, which is routing the LFE information through the Mirage towers I'm using as mains right now. It works well but there is a problem: when listening at moderate-loud volume, the very very low effects (sub-30Hz) cause the woofers to unload and bottom out. The towers are a ported design that I believe is tuned to ~40Hz so this is not terribly surprising. They are bi-amped as well, and so are receiving healthy power from my Yammy AVR.

So, in the interest of not setting my front channels on fire, I'm leaning towards a discrete sub

 

[jostenmeat]

Jostenmeat,

We'll be in this apartment until approx. October 2012. This coming November is our wedding in Sanibel, FL and we'll use the 11 months remaining on our lease after that to search for a house.

I've actually already been doing what you recommend, which is routing the LFE information through the Mirage towers I'm using as mains right now. It works well but there is a problem: when listening at moderate-loud volume, the very very low effects (sub-30Hz) cause the woofers to unload and bottom out. The towers are a ported design that I believe is tuned to ~40Hz so this is not terribly surprising. They are bi-amped as well, and so are receiving healthy power from my Yammy AVR.

So, in the interest of not setting my front channels on fire, I'm leaning towards a discrete sub

Ah. Dude, I'd guess 11 months will fly by quick enough, especially with all of the planning (and hopefully not) stressing for the big day, honeymoon plans, accommodating guests 'n relatives, etc.

Well, I vote to disable the LFE then altogether, use the time to save up for a bit of a sub fund, find out what the true space will be like when you move, and build yourself a couple of beasts, I mean if the space calls for it.

Or, say you bought a sub for $600. What price do you think you can sell it for in a year, and is this price delta worth a one year sub rental? (I've probably done worse things, so do as I say, not as I do . . .)

You state that this smaller sized room calls for a smaller sized sub. What about the room you will be in a year from now? I don't know, I guess these kinds of purchasing decisions really depend on any given person's disposable income, multiplied by the insanity factor, then divided by WAF.

 

[ntrain42]

None of the subs listed here are impressive for music IMO. A recommendation Id put out is a Rythmik F12. Accuracy and a small footprint are its calling card. Its a bit over your budget, but I would hold out and save the few bucks more for it.

 

[mike c]

None of the subs listed here are impressive for music IMO. A recommendation Id put out is a Rythmik F12. Accuracy and a small footprint are its calling card. Its a bit over your budget, but I would hold out and save the few bucks more for it.

which of these subs have you heard? do you have the rythmik?

 

[ntrain42]

which of these subs have you heard? do you have the rythmik?

Owned a pair of PB13 Ultras 18 months back,and set up various HSU subs on more than one occasion. Same with the Epiks and Emo subs. I've probably owned, installed or setup subs from 3-4 dozen different mfg's over the couse of the the past 15-20 years or so. In fact I replaced all my Kef and SVS subs with a compliment of Rythmik subs including 2 DS15SE's, 2 F15HP's and am currently building an enclosure to house 8 DS1510 RYthmik kits. As of now, its one of a small handful of HT subs that I consider truely audiophile quality.

 

[mike c]

Owned a pair of PB13 Ultras 18 months back,and set up various HSU subs on more than one occasion. Same with the Epiks and Emo subs. I've probably owned, installed or setup subs from 3-4 dozen different mfg's over the couse of the the past 15-20 years or so. In fact I replaced all my Kef and SVS subs with a compliment of Rythmik subs including 2 DS15SE's, 2 F15HP's and am currently building an enclosure to house 8 DS1510 RYthmik kits. As of now, its one of a small handful of HT subs that I consider truely audiophile quality.

so, none of the OP's choices? i've encountered people who absolutely prefer sealed subs (albeit the higher distortion) for music vs. ported subs.

i've had 6 pb13ultras among others btw, but i only have less than 5 years playing around with subs.

 

[HexOmega]

None of the subs listed here are impressive for music IMO. A recommendation Id put out is a Rythmik F12. Accuracy and a small footprint are its calling card. Its a bit over your budget, but I would hold out and save the few bucks more for it.

Owned a pair of PB13 Ultras 18 months back,and set up various HSU subs on more than one occasion. Same with the Epiks and Emo subs. I've probably owned, installed or setup subs from 3-4 dozen different mfg's over the couse of the the past 15-20 years or so. In fact I replaced all my Kef and SVS subs with a compliment of Rythmik subs including 2 DS15SE's, 2 F15HP's and am currently building an enclosure to house 8 DS1510 RYthmik kits. As of now, its one of a small handful of HT subs that I consider truely audiophile quality.

ntrain42,

I've gotta admit, posts like yours usually irritate me...in fact, your first one does. You know, when one person claims that one manufacturer's product blows away the rest of the (well respected) market. Regardless, I'm still intrigued, and after all I am the one asking for opinions.

Yes, it's beyond my budget, and this is becoming a very slippery slope.

Honestly spending another $200+ beyond the SVS sub has me wondering exactly what you get for $856 shipped. The Rythmik F12 uses a $150 driver and a reasonably advanced amplifier. The Direct Servo tech makes sense but without hearing one and comparing it to other comparable subs I'd have a hard time justifying the extra money.

Can you at least point me towards some legitimate professional reviews where the F12 is compared to other subs in/around the same price range?

EDIT: Rythmik charges a restocking fee for non-defective returns? WTF is that? So if I don't like their sub that I had no chance to preview before buying, I have to spend buku bucks to ship it back AND get stung with a restocking fee...thumbs down on that "feature."

 

[sholling]

Owned a pair of PB13 Ultras 18 months back,and set up various HSU subs on more than one occasion. Same with the Epiks and Emo subs. I've probably owned, installed or setup subs from 3-4 dozen different mfg's over the couse of the the past 15-20 years or so. In fact I replaced all my Kef and SVS subs with a compliment of Rythmik subs including 2 DS15SE's, 2 F15HP's and am currently building an enclosure to house 8 DS1510 RYthmik kits. As of now, its one of a small handful of HT subs that I consider truely audiophile quality.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. We all have different tastes and that's what keeps the world interesting.

 

[Matt34]

Different strokes for different folks I guess. We all have different tastes and that's what keeps the world interesting.

Yes sir! That's why I try to recommended equipment that will work best for that individual and not just stuff I like or have owned.

 

[mike c]

Yes sir! That's why I try to recommended equipment that will work best for that individual and not just stuff I like or have owned.

and i'm sure ONE subwoofer from a brand's lineup does not represent the entire lineup. otherwise, why make the different models.

edit: having read 1/3 of the link in the next post, i already know where this will go ... so i'm dropping out.