HELP MARANTZ SR6004 no bass

P

pawel

Audiophyte
#1
Hi everybody i have marantz sr 6004 receiver and technics sa-ex100 stereo receiver ,i can't believe that technics is producing stronger bass

any ideas ?
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Warlord
Ratings
2,634 9 4
#2
Hi everybody i have marantz sr 6004 receiver and technics sa-ex100 stereo receiver ,i can't believe that technics is producing stronger bass

any ideas ?
Check all of the speaker and tone settings. Look for something that may be hidden.
 
P

pawel

Audiophyte
#3
thank you for replay
i set equalizer for max in low frequency ,steel I'm disappointed
is it true what they say about receivers that they usually don't have enough power
 
jeffsg4mac

jeffsg4mac

Republican Poster Boy
Ratings
598
#4
thank you for replay
i set equalizer for max in low frequency ,steel I'm disappointed
is it true what they say about receivers that they usually don't have enough power
You should not have set the EQ max leave it alone and set flat. You should explain to us your speaker and equipment setup, read your manual first, run the Audyssey setup, then recheck your speaker configuration settings after.

Start by reading through this site.

http://ask.audyssey.com/forums/84181-audyssey-101

And here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14456895

If you still have issues after all that then post back with your setup configuration and the problem. That is a good receiver with a decent amp section that is heads and tails above that old Technique receiver. You do not have it setup correctly.
 
P

pawel

Audiophyte
#6
i have problem, when i go to ACOUSTIC EQ menu AUDYSSEY DYNAMIC EQ cannot be selected
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
2,353
#7
What speakers are you using? The SR6004 is a powerful receiver that should produce a lot of clean, powerful bass. With audessey engaged, it will also improve the tightness and linearity of poor speakers.
 
P

pawel

Audiophyte
#8
i have pair of definitive technology bp 2000, pair of definitive technology bp 2006, and pair of paradigm monitor 9 v.2 (no active sub - no bass ) ,and my nr.1 question is why AUDYSSEY DYNAMIC EQ is off ,is the receiver damaged ?
 
F

fuzzy_logic

Audioholic Intern
Ratings
1
#11
Hi folks, I see this thread hasnt had some activity for a while, but I am experiencing a similar problem on my Marantz SR 6004 - no mid bass.
Basiclly, the symptoms are like that of connecting a big speaker on a small low power amp that just seems to not be able to 'drive' the speakers.

Granted, I am currently playing with old pioneer speakers which most certainly dont come close to B&W 683 Im pondering buying, but there is definitely something weird about the Marantz receiver.

In my case, yes I have read the manual & also played with the settings, positions & speakers. I am trying everything in 2ch stereo mode as its all about the music performance, & for the purposes of that performance, I dont use the sub.

Sure, my B&W 608 Subwoofer takes care of the low bass, but booming isnt what we want here. Im currently having to crank the LPF crossover from the receiver to 160Hz (which is a lot higher than my preferred 100) just to compensate for the complete lack of bass from my floor standers.
Thats not too bad, but then the overlap between 160 to the 400 odd mark makes the base sound quite hollow & not clean fast punch.

Once again, I iterate, I dont want a cerwin vega boom box, I want flat response, but not at the cost of dull performance.

I dont want to use all 7 speakers & so engaging audyssey doesnt change much.
Ive tried by increasing the bass to max +6 but it doesnt make it better. Its +6 is already bad enough!
Also tried the user EQ & cranked the 60-250hz up but that isnt elegant either. No bass is no bass, cranking the eq only gerates distortion & it isnt going to fix it.

Also, in pure direct or DTS direct modes, the eq is pointless, so the sub will shake the room but the floor standers wont do anything & your system sounds like one of those cheapo sony that come with 5 tiny satellites hanging on a wall :(

My Pioneer 3 way speakers perform really well on my old pioneer amp.

A friend has (what we would call crap) yamaha rx-v363. I took my speakers over, & the mid base was actually very nice, it worked the woofer. Yes, the receiver wasnt as flat & a tad bright to my taste, but at least we can tolerate that for a $400 device.

Not having any mid bass in my $2000 device is a much bigger problem than having a tad of brightness.

I tried my friends (again crap) Wharfedale speakers on my Marantz, & yes I agree that being a newer design they are probably more responsive & did sound better than my pioneer speakers, but no where near as good as what the yamaha was doing to them.

Also, the marantz SR6004 is 110W discrete. Yet, I had the crank the volume up 10db more that the puny 65w yamaha to get the same level of sound on either speaker, not sure why.

After paying 5 times the price, one expects a lot more out of a receiver.
The review on whathifi.com for the 6 series seems to be very much along the same lines for the mid bass as what im experiencing.

I wold appreciate any tips or experiences you experts may have, & if any one else has noticed this about the Marantz. I sometimes feel like taking it back & actually asking them to fix it as part of the warranty, I get the feeling this is just defective.

Cheers
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
4,496 7 1
#12
Hi folks, I see this thread hasnt had some activity for a while, but I am experiencing a similar problem on my Marantz SR 6004 - no mid bass.
Basiclly, the symptoms are like that of connecting a big speaker on a small low power amp that just seems to not be able to 'drive' the speakers.
I don't know how big your Pioneer speakers are but I can tell you that I have heard the 6004 driving a pair of $10,000 Focal electra that has impedance dips of 3 to 3.5 ohms. It did a reasonable job and there was no sign of lacking mid bass or bass at moderate listening level playing a Diana Krall SACD. I was sure the 6004 would struggle depending on the kind of music and SPL level but again, at moderate SPL playing Diana Krall kind of jazz the 6004 was able to produce seemingly balanced bass overall.

Granted, I am currently playing with old pioneer speakers which most certainly dont come close to B&W 683 Im pondering buying, but there is definitely something weird about the Marantz receiver.
To drive the 683 with ease I would not rely on the 6004. The 4 ohm capable AVRs such as Denon 4311, Onkyo 3008 and above should be fine. The 6004 plus an external amp will obviously be a good option. Having said that the 6004 should still do a decent job powering a pair of 683 in a smaller room unless you are the kind of people who regularly listen to average SPL above 80 to 85 dB.

In my case, yes I have read the manual & also played with the settings, positions & speakers. I am trying everything in 2ch stereo mode as its all about the music performance, & for the purposes of that performance, I dont use the sub.
The fact that you are getting better bass reproduction from the same speakers using the much weaker Yamaha AVR, there must still be something wrong either with your 6004's setting or the unit is somehow defective. Keep in mind even in 2 ch stereo sound processing could still be in effect. Have you try using the pure direct mode yet? Also, just to be sure, I suggest you try a "factory reset" first before trying anything else, and then make sure you take notes of any setting you subsequently play with.

Sure, my B&W 608 Subwoofer takes care of the low bass, but booming isnt what we want here. Im currently having to crank the LPF crossover from the receiver to 160Hz (which is a lot higher than my preferred 100) just to compensate for the complete lack of bass from my floor standers.
Thats not too bad, but then the overlap between 160 to the 400 odd mark makes the base sound quite hollow & not clean fast punch.
For most floor speakers you should be able to set the sub crossover to 80 Hz.

Once again, I iterate, I dont want a cerwin vega boom box, I want flat response, but not at the cost of dull performance.
I understand you are only wanting to have the "normal" well balanced kind of bass and you are not getting it.

Also, in pure direct or DTS direct modes, the eq is pointless, so the sub will shake the room but the floor standers wont do anything & your system sounds like one of those cheapo sony that come with 5 tiny satellites hanging on a wall :(
Good thing you qualified Sony with "cheapo", my ex Sony DA4ES was very cable of driving my big 4 ohm tower with the help of a sub.

My Pioneer 3 way speakers perform really well on my old pioneer amp.
I cannot comment on this without knowing any details, such as which Pioneer amp, was there any EQ applied, were the speakers in the same location, did you use the same source etc...

Not having any mid bass in my $2000 device is a much bigger problem than having a tad of brightness.
This is shocking, assuming $=USD, or AUD, or CDN. Even at launch time, the currently flag ship Marantz AVR, the 7005 is listed at $1,599. $2000 for the 6004 seemed like a ridiculous price to me.

Also, the marantz SR6004 is 110W discrete. Yet, I had the crank the volume up 10db more that the puny 65w yamaha to get the same level of sound on either speaker, not sure why.
If you compared both in pure direct, using the same source, with the speakers in the same location, then I wouldn't know why either. It makes no sense.

The review on whathifi.com for the 6 series seems to be very much along the same lines for the mid bass as what im experiencing.
I read whathifi quite often but I typically don't take their reviews too seriously unless they are supported with lab measurements such as those by homecinemachoice.com, hometheatermag.com, soundandvision.com and audioholics.com. They also routinely rank Sony AVRs their top choice, I am not sayiing that is wrong, but just saying...........:D Was it a full review, which speakers they used?

I wold appreciate any tips or experiences you experts may have, & if any one else has noticed this about the Marantz. I sometimes feel like taking it back & actually asking them to fix it as part of the warranty, I get the feeling this is just defective.
Cheers
If you have tried factory reset, pure direct and are sure your speakers are not internally connected out of phase (hard to make a mistake externally),and you cannot rule out room acoustics/speaker placement being the issue, then I agree with you the unit is somehow/somewhat "defective" because it should not do worse than the little Yamaha you referred to. I am puzzled by your quote about that whathifi.com review though.

Just a couple more points to consider:

1. Your room and speakers placements/locations have a major influence on bass, and even mid bass performance.

2. If the phasing of the speakers are correct, the sound stage (2 channel stereo) should sound right, with vocal deal center and if you play a violin concerto the violin should sound left to center to center. Conversely, if they are out of phase, you would have trouble pinning down the location of the vocalist's voice and the violin in the case of a violin concerto. I am quite sure you know this already but I just have to mention it because of its major influence on sound stage and bass cancellation.

3. I understood what you said about using Audyssey, but you may want to run it to find out if there are in fact any "out of phase" issues. I am not sure how bullet proof it is but I would guess the odds are good that Audyssey could detect out of phase issues.
 
F

fuzzy_logic

Audioholic Intern
Ratings
1
#13
Thanks Peng, youve raised valid points re factory reset & audyssey.
Appreciated.
I'll try your suggestions.

Yes tried pure direct & on the pioneers that sounds like someones disconnected the woofer!

Sorry forgot to specify Im in New Zealand so prices in NZD. Plus smaller country small market hifi stuff costs a lot here. The SR7005 is NZ$ 3400 :(

B&W 683 retail here for $3500. Yesterday, a dealer offered me 683s for $2300
I bought them, it just happened so fast! :D


I must agree that its a really nice speaker, great detail, warm sound.

And the mid bass is way better than my old pioneers.
But thats after having to crank the 60/128Hz Eq to +9 (max!) & the 250Hz to +5, thankfully these dont distort so Ive left it there.
So you see, Im still not happy about it.

You raise a valid point about these being 4ohm spkrs, & I should have double confirmed that. Do you reckon that might be why the mid bass is still not quite there? My pioneer speakers measured on a meter were 6ohm impedance, the 683 were 3.8ohm. So theoretically, If low impedance related reduced drive was the issue I should have had better performance from the pioneer?
Is it relevant to measure impedance like that?

Some cheaper Yamahas seem to be 'rated' for 4ohm imp speakers, could that be why if thats why I had to put the volume higher on my marantz with those wharfedale speakers?

I listen to music at low volume, normally -20db with the 683 on my marantz (if that number means anything to you?) With the pioneer I would be at -30, so there is def some difference. Maybe the low response on those wharfedales was also because of spkr impedance?
Personally I feel anything can shake walls at higher levels, good speakers should sound good at lower levels. These B&W are good.

Thanks for re-iterating about polarity etc, sometimes the obvious gets us.
And I didnt know the violin had to sound from that location, interesting, so always something new to learn :)

Actually, Im quite new to the technical side of hifi

Re whathifi review, sorry cant post links yet, but last para quote below:
whathifi dot com slash review slash marantz-sr6004
"But by the same token it doesn't go out its way to involve us in the action. Bullets lack punch, while helicopters sound weedier than they should.
This shortage of punch and weight leaves us desperate for a more involving listen. With stereo music, this lack of drive is only heightened with two-channel tunes."


I will keep you updated with more info
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
4,496 7 1
#14
Re whathifi review, sorry cant post links yet, but last para quote below:
whathifi dot com slash review slash marantz-sr6004
"But by the same token it doesn't go out its way to involve us in the action. Bullets lack punch, while helicopters sound weedier than they should.
This shortage of punch and weight leaves us desperate for a more involving listen. With stereo music, this lack of drive is only heightened with two-channel tunes."


I will keep you updated with more info
Okay so that's one British review you have read, here's another one for you to read, but by an American magazine:
http://www.hometheater.com/content/marantz-sr6004-av-receiver

complete with lab measurements:
http://www.hometheater.com/content/marantz-sr6004-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

And this is what the reviewer says about it's 2 channel power output:

"This graph shows that the SR6004’s left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 111.6 watts and 1 percent distortion at 126.6 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 160.5 watts and 1 percent distortion at 187.8 watts. "

Here is another one, by a British magazine:
http://hcc.techradar.com/files/hcc_content/marantz163lr.pdf

Note the measured output is also quite respectable (2X130W and 5X100W into 8 ohms at 0.5% THD).

There is no way any Yamaha models below the RX-V1XXX can come close. So I do believe either your unit is somehow defective in someway, or you still have some settings messed up. If it is the latter, a properly done factory reset should and then follow by trying out the pure direct mode should remove eliminate that scenario.

With the 683 though, you may want to add a two channel power amp to power the front L/R regardless.

Sorry to know that you guys in NZ has to pay more. Well may be your higher $ helps a little, assuming NZD = the mighty AUD.
 
F

fuzzy_logic

Audioholic Intern
Ratings
1
#15
Hi Peng,

Another thought I have today is after doing the reset Ill bi-wire the speaker.
Technically, if there is an issue with insufficient power, Im hoping biwiring with the discrete outputs should help? I'll try it anyway & post my findings.

Thanks for the review links attached, make a valid point, but Im not techie enough to fully understand how to analyse power ratings at diff impedance levels.
If u hav a moment please do share some pointers on exactly how/why impedance matching is important & what to expect with this particular config. In your honest opinion, are the 683s not a good match for the SR6004? I hope they'll do fine for my low volume needs.

Also, I find that the vocals come from the centre & create a brilliant soundstage as expected, which is partly why after auditioning the 683 with the paradigm M9s I picked the B&W.

I really do get the strong suspicion that something is wrong with my amp. I had discussed this with my dealer a while ago & he kind of fobbed me off when I told him I was testing it against my older speakers & a cheaper yammie, u know that condescending look they give u when u try to pair old eco stuff with new primo stuff :mad:
So before I go in there again I want to be sure of everything & not embarass myself.

AUD is stronger than USD so with the NZD we're not a great place, but yes, recently, the NZD has gained against the USD (or USD has dropped however it may be) which helps with the newer stock coming in.

Thanks, more later.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
3,430 11 12
#16
Hi Fuzzy

A dumb question here but I want to eliminate more variables...Are the spekaers the same and in the same room/loclation when you moved from the Yamaha to the Marantz?
 
F

fuzzy_logic

Audioholic Intern
Ratings
1
#17
Hi 3db, no worries doesnt hurt clarifying.
Yes, the speakers were in the same room, pretty much set in the same position.
Anything else u can think of please throw it out there...

Today I retried pure direct on the 683, & yup, pretty poor bass performance.
Im getting 8 banaha plugs tomorrow & am going to biwire the speakers, lets see.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Ratings
7,226 17 24
#18
Hi 3db, no worries doesnt hurt clarifying.
Yes, the speakers were in the same room, pretty much set in the same position.
Anything else u can think of please throw it out there...

Today I retried pure direct on the 683, & yup, pretty poor bass performance.
Im getting 8 banaha plugs tomorrow & am going to biwire the speakers, lets see.
Bi-wiring will make no difference.

Take that unit in for service and have a frequency response run on it.

If you have this problem in pure direct mode after a reset, your unit is defective, or those receivers are no good.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
4,496 7 1
#19
Bi-wiring will make no difference.

Take that unit in for service and have a frequency response run on it.

If you have this problem in pure direct mode after a reset, your unit is defective, or those receivers are no good.
I tend to agree that AVR cannot do too good a job with those reasonably big and hungry 683 but I think his one is defective in some way if after a factory reset and set to pure direct it still perform worse than the Yamaha RX-V363. That sad little thing probably weighs 10 lbs less than the Marantz SR6004.
 

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