HELP MARANTZ SR6004 no bass

[fuzzy_logic]

Thanks TLS, Peng & 3Db.
One advantage here is the distributor for bw & marantz is the same company.
I just spoke to the bw service centre & they told me to try & swap with another 6004
But my dealer is a real p***k & insists that if it "turns on" then everything should be ok with the receiver & that he wont swap it!
He even says if I need to max out the 60/120 hz on the eq then thats just the way I should have it!!
But he is prepd to send it over to the bw service centre for a check.
Speaking to the guy at the service centre, he aslo recmmends I send it over.

So I think im just going to give that a try & request a feq resp test as suggested.

So folks a tad late for this but if the 683 are a bit too hungry for this, are there any 3 way BW speakers u could recommend for this receiver. I didnt like the 684s because of no mid bass when I tried them on a similar marantz SR6005.

But I really like these BW, infact Im sure that baby yamaha will probably drive these better than my 6004

Another question, guys is it true that hi end audio amps are very very flat & so dont artificially boost the bass, but if your ears have heard such boosted stuff your whole life then u dont like the flat sounding stuff??

 

[Retro]

Its no problem...

Just look to the very bottom of the remote. Note: The Correct remote should read Marantz RC007SR. And just above that you will see Bass + - and Treble + - Press the Bass Button until you hear the desired effect. and If That does not get enough bass for your liking, that Incredible reciever you have also has Independant Equalizer settings for each speaker and you will have to access this function with the on screen display with your remote by going through the menu function. Note: Be sure to press amp- first , on the remote prior to pressing the menu to access the Equalizer. and one more Cool feature of the marantz 6004 is that it is Bluetooth. Ohh Yeah... Just wirelessly connect it with your I pod or other device , and amaze your freinds. I bet their reciever cant do that.... You can adjust the volume wirelessly from your I pod too. Your reciever handles (9) speakers (7) for surround and (2) for Height (Wide) effects. Or a second room if you wanted to. Just be carefull not to place anything directly on top of the unit it since the heat sink is made of that thin aluminum and it gets really hot when pushed to high volumes. it really could use a fan in my opinion. I hope this helps... Enjoy....

 

[PENG]

is it true that hi end audio amps are very very flat & so dont artificially boost the bass, but if your ears have heard such boosted stuff your whole life then u dont like the flat sounding stuff??

That is quite possible.

 

[fuzzy_logic]

it very much is

Just look to the very bottom of the remote. Note: The Correct remote should read Marantz RC007SR. And just above that you will see Bass + - and Treble + - Press the Bass Button until you hear the desired effect. and If That does not get enough bass for your liking, that Incredible reciever you have also has Independant Equalizer settings for each speaker and you will have to access this function with the on screen display with your remote by going through the menu function. Note: Be sure to press amp- first , on the remote prior to pressing the menu to access the Equalizer. and one more Cool feature of the marantz 6004 is that it is Bluetooth. Ohh Yeah... Just wirelessly connect it with your I pod or other device , and amaze your freinds. I bet their reciever cant do that.... You can adjust the volume wirelessly from your I pod too. Your reciever handles (9) speakers (7) for surround and (2) for Height (Wide) effects. Or a second room if you wanted to. Just be carefull not to place anything directly on top of the unit it since the heat sink is made of that thin aluminum and it gets really hot when pushed to high volumes. it really could use a fan in my opinion. I hope this helps... Enjoy....

Hi Retro, please dont take this the wrong way, but I get the feeling you havnt read the entire thread, or atleast not read my first post.
Like I said, I already tried putting the bass up to max (+6) using the remote bass button. Without the bass +6, the receiver would sound even crap. Then after that wasnt enough, I went into the user eq & pumped the FL & FR channels 60/120HZ to +9 (max). That was better, but still no where near to what id expect. Im very well aware of the cool features these unit has like bluetooth, 2 hdmi outs, & that it allows be to bi-wire speakers whilst running in full 7.1. What I dont think you got right was that this unit only allows 7 channels, ie you can not have full 7.1 & the height speakers all running, you have to pick either 7.1 or 5.1 + DDPL2z. It also has speakers A+B & zone 3 preouts. Cheers

 

[fuzzy_logic]

Peng Im going to autoreplay a track I know & set that eq the way until I like it for all the freqs. Then Ill hear the overall sound & decide if I like it. Lets see if I can take the focus away from lack of midbass & see if the rest all adds up to make a nice well rounded sound. I was impressed with the BW 683 handling the 60Hz really well at -30db volume, soft jazz sounds beautifully balanced.

 

[fuzzy_logic]

Righto guys so to update, I bi-wired the amp. As forecasted, the sound quality had no audible effect, but with the extra power, the volume can be cranked really loud without the amp going into protection mode, which it did when the 683 was not bi-wired. So am leaving them bi-wired for now, but thats not a big deal. I will never listen to them at 0/+2db volume ever again lol

I also set the eq the way I like it, but the problem is that with the eq not applicable per source, I can totally feel that different sources make a big difference, even with hq content its not the same. SO now u get into the trap of wanting to have custom eq modes that can be auto-saved per input source lol
But yeah, have left the eq maxed out for the 60/120hz because the 683s are handling it beautifully with no visible distortion to my ears.

For now, Im in 2 minds about whether I should bother sending the unit for repair, cuz I get the feeling all 6 series Marantz have been made that way.
Dont know, will think it over a bit, & post any updates to this forum.

In the mean time, Im looking for a good centre thats timbre matched with the 683s.
Ive started athread for that in the speaker section so please share a thought there.
Well folks, thanks a lot for your valuable input.
Cheers

Cheers

 

[fuzzy_logic]

That is quite possible.

Thanks Peng, Im considering that too so will go to another more customer friendly dealer & listen to the 683s on some NADs & Rotels to see if its me or Marantz Also will chk out the Denons, lets see if all D&M stuff sounds similar
I'll also hear the Yamaha 1067 & see what they do when compared to the 373

 

[PENG]

Thanks Peng, Im considering that too so will go to another more customer friendly dealer & listen to the 683s on some NADs & Rotels to see if its me or Marantz Also will chk out the Denons, lets see if all D&M stuff sounds similar
I'll also hear the Yamaha 1067 & see what they do when compared to the 373

If you have time that is the way to go but make sure you compare apple to apple. That means in pure direct to kill all processing, same speakers in the same acoustic environment as others have mentioned before. I can assure you the Marantz is a more powerful unit than the 373 or even the 4XX and 5XX series unless your 6004 is defective. Sorry for repeating the message..

 

[fuzzy_logic]

Righto guys so I recently bought a B&W LCR600 for the centre, & attached slightly older but decent pioneer 2.5 way speakers for the rears. then I ran the much loved Audyssey auto setup.
In its wise mind, audyssey already "thinks" there is too much bass coming out so decides to drop the 60 & 120Hz down -2db! It then lowers the LPF/HPF to 40Hz & puts the sub level down -11db, so basically the sub is doing very little, if anything. I had ensured to keep the sub volume at the back to around 30% as suggested. It also pumped up +3 to +5db for the 1KHz - 4KHz, & everything sounds tatty as hell.

So now, no bass + **** loads of treble, my system sounds like the crappy wharfedale combo I heard before I bought B&W speakers.
Audyssey Dynamic eq is an embarassment, why did I believe it would actually work!
Silent mode or whatever they call it makes lowers the volume down & distorts it to death.

Sorry to be mouring guys but except for the speaker distance & rear level adjustment, the eq side of audyssey is an embarassment.

Frankly, the more I think about it, the marantz SR6004 is not as good as one may have hoped for

I seriously need to consider changing brands.

 

[DD66000]

If you are using Dynamic Volume, turn it off. It screws up the entire works.

There is another thing. IF, you have been used to listening to distorted bass with your old setup, then clean bass will seem quite weak, by comparison.

 

[Cruise Missile]

Your preference for bloated mid bass doesn't make your receiver bad.

The real problem is YOU like unnatural levels of mid bass similar to what you may find in automotive sound systems. Home theater equipment is designed with FLAT as the target frequency response (most manufacturers) and it will sound thin and weak to an untrained or coloured ear.

Run Audyssey correctly, grab your favorite music, beverage of choice, and sit and listen. (Don't touch the eq or the tone controls) Repeat until you no longer think your car stereo sounds better.Then come back here (months from now) and talk to us about how it sounds.

I'm not picking on you, simply pointing out the error is in the listeners ears not the gear.

 

[ratso]

just skimmed through this thread so forgive me, but what did you say your settings were for crossovers for your main speakers? did i read you are crossing over at 160?

 

[GranteedEV]

To the OP:

I recommend you get an SPL meter or measurement microphone. Without knowing what's going on in YOUR room at YOUR listening position, we can only guess. You keep blaming the electronics but chances are they're not doing anything wrong.

But the only way we can know that you're not getting enough midbass is to see measurements of your in-room, listening position response.

Get a cheap Galaxy SPL meter.

 

[fuzzy_logic]

Yes ratso I am crossing over at 160Hz, but perhaps thats not the best term to describe it because what Im actually doing is setting the bass to "both" in the unit with "large" for fronts, so it sends everything to the floor standers & on top of that sends a 'copy' of everything upto 160Hz to the sub. Only then is the lack of mid bass compensated for.
Sometimes I set the LPF/HPF down to 120Hz in some songs.

CruiseMissile, I understand what youre trying to say, but I want to ensure you have actually "heard" a SR6004 with b&w 683/comparable good speaker? Or are you "assuming", just like everyone else including me like I did a month ago, expecting the Marantz to be flawless?

The reason for that frank question is because I went & heard some Yamaha 10xx the other day. When you max out bass on that, it shakes the floor.
How is it that +9db on eq in a Marantz does squat, & +8 on a yamaha shakes the room?
Why is it that the equal wattage rated Yamaha is 10db louder than the Marantz?
The answer is going to be "oh each brand is different, you know what you like"
or "Oh Yamaha boosts everything"
Heard an Onkyo NR609, didnt touch the eq just maxed the bass, it shook the floor.

I'll go hear the NADs, Rotel & Classe very soon, then I will know if its all premium brands or just Marantz.

Lets say I do like to distort the hell out of my mid-bass, if I want to do so, & the reciever goes to +9db on eq, why is it not doing what +9 should do ie shake the room?
Other brands do that, is Marantz the only "real" & "good" sound, I find that hard to believe.
Ultimately, do you agree the receiver is not performing?

Also, I have run Audyssey correctly, frankly you can't 'not' run it correctly, you dont do anything beside start it. I have a stock car stereo & refuse to having a sub in there so lets not assume Im your bass junky measuring SPLs out of a car boot.

To me, my receiver not being able to drive the 2 woofers in the 683 very much makes my receiver "bad", else I would go by 685s & attach a sub. If you buy 3 way floor standers, they need to perform, else you dont buy them.

Anyway, best to go check the other primos out & post my finding later.

 

[GranteedEV]

You've effectively established that you're striving for something without knowing what you're striving for.
Right now you're just picking random electronics (all of which, btw, function the same driven within their capabilities) and hoping that adding arbritrary amounts of bass boost will get you to the promised land.

If you feel you're missing something, figure out where that something is missing. MEASURE YOUR LISTENING POINT RESPONSE.

Chances are, you haven't even come close to the limits of your SR6004, which as Gene measured, is a BEAST with 200+ watts into 4 ohms. If that's not enough power for you then you need to be looking at high power external amps like a Face Audio F700TS... of course your B&Ws can't handle that type of power and will die a quick death.

The problem is that your wimpy B&W speakers are probably not very balanced speakers.

Chances are they're tuned for low listening levels.

But if you want room shaking bass, you need high SPLs.

High SPLs with poor speakers are difficult to listen to. You think it's not distortion, when in actuality the subtle distortion and unbalanced power response is the reason you can't turn it up.

You blame the marantz, but it's not doing anything but taking a signal from one end and feeding it to the other end.

And when you measure response, you'll realize what we're talking about. Your receiver is absolutely able to "drive" the B&Ws. Your B&Ws are just not able to produce bass without also being difficult to listen to at other frequencies.

That is the problem with speakers "voiced" subjectively.

 

[fuzzy_logic]

GranteedEV, youve got a point. Hard to get one of those for a decent price here. I'll go with the pragmatic route. I'll hear the other brands, & if need be change to what I like. Ultimately, I want to enjoy my music the way I like it, not the way Marantz wants you to like it. And surely, I dont believe every other brand is "crap" & Marantz is perfect.
Ive already established that Yamaha's have better bass on the entire lineup.
Most people will buy a sub, then set the volume control of the sub to "taste" - well essentially, what youve done there is set the bass the way you like it, however "boosted" it may be.

 

[fuzzy_logic]

> "Wimpy B&W" 683s
- interesting opinion, some people seem to believe those are already too much for my SR6004?
> 200W @4Ohms
- hmm, I need to re-read that spec

Why does the puny 500W Yamaha 363 "crap" provide better bass on speakers than the 110W discrete per channel Marantz? Clearly power wattage isnt the issue here?
Thanks

 

[fuzzy_logic]

Im blaming Marantz's eq for not boosting the bass to whats expected at +9db when I set it to +9db if I want to. The levels of bass I liked on the yamha were achieved at only +4db, the Marantz didnt even get there. Is that not a fair expectation?

 

[GranteedEV]

Are you comparing the yamahas in direct mode to the marantz' in source direct?

NO - you're comparing EQUALIZERS. So what if the "numbers" are different? Marantz' EQ should allow up to 20db of boost unless i'm mistaken.

Heck, if you're so desparate, do this.

Go into speaker setup, and raise the front speaker levels by about 10db.

now go into the preset EQ and lower everything above 500hz by a good 10db, and boost below 500hz.

GranteedEV, youve got a point. Hard to get one of those for a decent price here. I'll go with the pragmatic route. I'll hear the other brands, & if need be change to what I like.

Keep "hearing" other brands all you like.

 

[fuzzy_logic]

Valid argument good sir, infact have already tried your "desperate" suggestion. And you know what, that sounds junk for a whole lot of other reasons as expected! (you would know why better than me)

When I want to add bass, but naturally I will be comparing the EQs, so ultimately, the receiver isnt doing what the yamaha can do?
The receiver is unable to produce the amount of bass other brands are willing to let you when the numbers are the same. If all these receivers are so "accurate" why are the same numbers of bass boost in an eq displaying completely different results?

Ok, maybe the Marantz receiver's voltage amplification section is great & only the eq is crap. Doesnt change the status quo, as a unit, the "receiver" is not performing as well as the yamaha.

Doesnt explain why only +4db out of the +10db of bass sets the yamaha to my liking, whereas +9 in a marantz wont even take it close.
This essentially boils down to the the fact that Marantz has Low Bass - I think its quite simple.

Maybe I am expecting more bass than some of you, but surely, if Yamaha makes a product that I am happy with at only +4 of bass (& yamaha lets you shake the floor too if you want to), I think there must be people who agree with my sentiment.

I dont want to shake the floor, I want to get the same levels of bass from my Marantz as the Yamaha gives me at only +4.

And yes I will keep listening to other brands, & I will post my results