HELP MARANTZ SR6004 no bass

[fuzzy_logic]

Oh & yes, I have compared the marantz & yamaha with no bass boost, direct. Yamaha was noticibly better. The cheapo 363 as well as the 1067 both. The 363 doesnt have a pure direct (I think, cant remember) so there must have just kept it all to 0 bass.

 

[fuzzy_logic]

Thanks DD66000 Dynamic volume did screw it up so I turned it off straight away. And I also see the point you have all made about clean bass. Perhaps the more appropriate question is when you compare the EQs as per my recent posts. Ultimately, no receiver has exactly the amount of bass I like wihtout the eq, but Yamaha was more than marantz. Some call it flat response, I would call low mid bass in their line-up. Not all brands are doing that level of "flatness"

 

[fuzzy_logic]

Righto all, guess what, I have good news & annoying news.

Good news - my marantz has now decided to start responding to +9db of bass the same way as the yamaha does at +8. Dont ask me why. So, all I did today was turned audyssey off & put my user eq settings back on. Suddenly the 683 is shaking the house.

Bad news - I dont know whether there was some freakin IC loose inside or whatever that caused this frustration over the last 1 month but now that it works, I cant even send it for a warranty check. If it breaks like this after a year, Im scrued :s

Dear Marantz, please dont break after the warranty finishes!

Now, I notice that the sub has become too powerful, I had to drop the channel level down to -7 before I could even use the sub at a quarter volume from the back.
Wonder why?!

Thank you all for your input, I learnt a lot through this pain in the a$$

 

[Cruise Missile]

The "sound" you are trying to achieve with your setup is possible with the receiver you own.

YOUR RECIEVER IS NOT THE PROBLEM.

Go Google Cerwin Vega speakers. I don't remember what the big boys model number is, but YouTube videos of them in action tell me it's exactly what you're looking for. I don't believe they're terribly expensive either.

Please do yourself a favor and let go of this idea that a receiver is better or worse based on how far you can jack the bass up. It makes you sound like a tool. The eq's included are for FLATTENING the in room response of your speakers not to create a house curve per se.

Cerwin Vega is calling you.

Edit: the model is CLS-215 also called the Classic- 215.

 

[Cruise Missile]

Here you go....

And.....

I have no idea what the guy says at the end..... if it's innapropriate I appologize.

From the videos I looked through it appears that these speakers only play three songs.

 

[fuzzy_logic]

Oh dear CruiseMissile, those are CerwinVega XLS215S speakers, they are party speakers.
When you want neighbours to call the cops, u play them. They are significantly cheaper than the 683s I own, almost half price. DJs sometimes consider them alongside the JBL lineup.

Youre also missing the point that even if I took these CerwinVega boomers & hooked them to my marantz & max the bass out, they would still produce less bass than what a yamaha would have done to them. I have heard these used on a Yamaha 2xxx series receiver & they have no "clarity", as expected. Anyway the Marantz has fixed itself now & at +6db is working the way others yamahas did.

Did u read my most recent post explaining the fact that the Marantz has fixed itself?

Now the Marantz is performing like the Yamaha & the Onkyo at +6db it sounds the way I like it, in my room, on my 683s.
+6 db is not max, its a fairway low & at +9db (max) it shakes the room, its too much so +6 is more than enough for me.
So this thread has practically come to a close. But yea, keen to discuss any "hindsight" theories of what caused the drama.

So now would u say that the Marantz has developed a fault, because previously it was definitely "flatter"!? - your responses are appreciated but please do try not to be too condescending, I dont know a lot but Im not exactly a bass junkie that wants to buy a boom box.

Thanks

 

[Cruise Missile]

I was ribbing you a little.

You called my bluff..... I just could't resist.

And yes I'm fully aware of what Cerwins are, hence the joke.

As far as the receiver changing, that would scare me. Electronics don't change, they fail. I'd double check all of the connections both at the back of the receiver and at the speakers.

 

[fuzzy_logic]

Haha all good mate all good, but hey dont ever compare my beautiful B&W 683s to anything as mortifying as a CW ever again lol

True, electronics should FAIL, its 0 or 1, it should fail, but no, for once, it decides to follow "Fuzzy Logic" scares the sh1t out of me too

Well, Im not giving up yet, Im going to do a factory reset & start all over again, Im going to get to the bottom of this.

Will keep you all posted, though I get the suspicion some of you have had enough of all this "bass" talk. But well, lets keep this as a resource for future Marantz buyers that could experience this bass issue.

Good Luck peeps, thanks for sharing your knowledge & spending your valuable time, most appreciated.

Marantz, if youre reading this, please check you QA process, not a good look for a premium brand to have such issues. And please check your manuals if there is something going on you havnt bothered to mention.

 

[Cruise Missile]

I've seen a single errant strand of copper have all sorts of weirdness going on. From imaging woes all the way to destruction of output stages on amps. Shorts can mimmick nearly every other problem.

Triple check the connections, maybe even the leads inside of your speakers.... I know, seems out there, but it does happen. I had a loose lead on the cross over inside the speaker cause the stereo image to move back and forth between the speakers. The tweeter was able to get enough juice to work some of the time and not enough at other times.

Copper can decide to move once heated also as in after running your system for a while...

 

[JJMP50]

And.....

I have no idea what the guy says at the end..... if it's innapropriate I appologize.

From the videos I looked through it appears that these speakers only play three songs.

I have to say that some part of me...(the hidden 20yr old) enjoyed this...

 

[fuzzy_logic]

Thanks cruiseMissile, I will double check connections. Have been using high quality gold banana plugs at both speaker & receiver end when I noticed things would loosen a little after a while, probably due to vibrations.

Oh & yes, the 683s are brand new, dont want to open them, wonder what implications thatll have on warranty.
To be honest I doubt the speakers/crosover has issues because this was first observed on old speakers.
The cable I have is pretty much the thickest the banana plug would let in, so the good thing is the contact edges are really firm.
But will see if anything is loose elsewhere

JJMP50, Totally ok to enjoy getting "bass palpitations" every once in a while haha
Sometimes I turn the sub on & play some good dance music style tunes, u can hav the best of both worlds
But yeah, that kind of bass causes ear bleed way too quickly, Im getting old hehehe

 

[Cruise Missile]

Those speakers have ports front and back? If so placement will effect the bass response greatly.

Try moving them closer or further away from the wall behind them to vary the room re-enforcement of the bass. Rear ported speakers can be a bit tricky to position for the best response.

When it comes to bass, tiny changes in placement yield significant changes in room response.

 

[fuzzy_logic]

Those speakers have ports front and back? If so placement will effect the bass response greatly.

Try moving them closer or further away from the wall behind them to vary the room re-enforcement of the bass. Rear ported speakers can be a bit tricky to position for the best response.

When it comes to bass, tiny changes in placement yield significant changes in room response.

Agree about the placement for bass, I know what you mean. Have tried a few different changes, but frankly, now that the receiver performs the way it should, those changes make no noticable difference to my ears.

Currently going through that exercise with my sub & in that case its making a huge difference.

Mine have a port only in the front. I was recommended placing 3-way speakers around 15cm from wall. Before they were facing straight ahead, now ive put them in a corner angled toward listener centre, as per B&W diagram. Currently around 30cm from corner point, so thats same as 15-20cm away from each wall. But frankly, that made no difference.

I tried closing front ports with the included foam padding, makes little difference but does take away the very slight "boominess" I like in these speakers, so have kept them out for now.

Thanks

 

[PENG]

I also have the impression that the OP is perhaps fond of heavier bass response from his system so all suggestions to help him getting more bass would be useful to him. That being said, I have a strong feeling that there was something wrong with his unit. This is because I am not convinced under the same conditions, speaker placement, connections, pure direct mode etc., that the Yamaha 3XX could out perform the near mid range 6004 by the margin he described.

I know it may sound inexplicable that the unit could have fixed itself, but I think if it did, it may just unfix itself again in the future. If it was my AVR I would trade it back in with the dealer for another one of the same model (assuming the 6004 is still his choice) where I bought it from and let them deal with the defective unit.

 

[fuzzy_logic]

Thanks Peng, I have the same exact thoughts, but my dealer is extremely un-cooperative, because I bought this all on special price, he basically doesnt want to have to deal with it & at the start refused to believe something could even be wrong.
Now that the unit works, its going to be even harder to get him to co-operate. He refused a swap before as well, only agreeing to send it for a warranty check if it seemed defective. This is just my bad luck I think.

Yes, I now have the eq set to +3db for 60Hz & +6db for 120Hz & guess what its just right. Before I was at +9 for both 60 & 120 & its still sounded totally hollow.

I just phoned B&W directly & thankfully they are very understanding. The guy told me to email him so that this issue is on file, & even if it re-occurs say after warranty finishes then he's assured me he'll look after me, so thats good.

 

[PENG]

I just phoned B&W directly & thankfully they are very understanding. The guy told me to email him so that this issue is on file, & even if it re-occurs say after warranty finishes then he's assured me he'll look after me, so thats good.

Can you write to Marantz and try to convince them to do the same that B&W told you they would do? I know it is a long shot but it only takes one email to find out. If and when you write them you should make it abundantly clear that you compared the 6004 with that mini Yamaha in pure direct after doing a factory reset on the Marantz and that you did use the same speakers, source in the same room etc. Otherwise they will just think that you are not comparing apple to apple.

 

[GranteedEV]

I also have the impression that the OP is perhaps fond of heavier bass response from his system so all suggestions to help him getting more bass would be useful to him. That being said, I have a strong feeling that there was something wrong with his unit. This is because I am not convinced under the same conditions, speaker placement, connections, pure direct mode etc., that the Yamaha 3XX could out perform the near mid range 6004 by the margin he described.

Rather than outperform, it could be that it's "underperforming" and he's prefering it due to the impedance nature of the speakers.

 

[fuzzy_logic]

GranteedEV, "underperform due to impedance" interesting, please explain what hat means/how it impacts sound, if u hav a moment & can educate me.

So 2 things were observed in that comparison.
1) The Marantz produced less bass than the yamaha 363
2) The yamaha was Louder by a whole 10db on the same speakers than the marantz

& the yamaha was a bit too bright to my taste, if that means anything

Cheers

 

[GranteedEV]

GranteedEV, "underperform due to impedance" interesting, please explain what hat means/how it impacts sound, if u hav a moment & can educate me.

& the yamaha was a bit too bright to my taste, if that means anything

It was just an assumption... but let's say your B&W speakers have a big impedance dip IE 3 ohms around 1khz but high impedance at 200hz and 3.5khz for example.

Your perception of the yamaha's bass may be that it's producing more relative bass (and apparently treble). This is because the yamaha has lost it's composure at 1khz and is giving you "more bass and treble". Since you haven't measured a thing and refuse to do it, we can only guess, but you may assume more relative bass to be more absolute bass. And every EQ adjustment is a greater increase in absolute bass.

Now the marantz comes in with oodles of current reserves and tightens up your midrange response for a clean interaction with the speakers. You get less relative bass and treble because you're not getting more midrange.

Now that doesn't explain why your marantz' bass seemed to "arrive" later on. Without measurements one can only guess.

 

[fuzzy_logic]

Now the marantz comes in with oodles of current reserves and tightens up your midrange response for a clean interaction with the speakers. You get less relative bass and treble because you're not getting more midrange.
QUOTE]


Hmm, makes good sense. To clarify, Should the last statement read "You Are" getting more midrange, or is what youve written correct?

I mean for relative bass & relative high treble brightness, the dip in 1KhZ is a logical explanation for the yamaha though it doesnt explain the 10db better "loudness" volume.

So the Marantz producing clean 1-4KHz would mean less relative treble & bass, which explains the flatness. For all this to make sense though, please confirm that last statement.

Thanks