Help Building 2.1 system for 65% movies and 35% music.

[aim1861]

I'd think a thick enough slab with enough mass could be effective. A pain to deal with, but effective. Rubber feet are much easier

Rubber feets are much easier to handle
The huge slab thing not happening for you

Do you guys think ditching the sub and trying to accomodate towers will be better option?

 

[lovinthehd]

Why not the PB1000 vs the SB1000? Kef over Polk in any case. Towers won't substitute for true subs without spending much much more on the towers (like maybe JTR Noesis 215RTs).

 

[aim1861]

Why not the PB1000 vs the SB1000? Kef over Polk in any case. Towers won't substitute for true subs without spending much much more on the towers (like maybe JTR Noesis 215RTs).

PB1000s are huge and are not great looking in my opinion
Plus I live in a condo dont wanna shake the entire building. You think KEF would be more than double as good as Polks?

 

[lovinthehd]

PB1000s are huge and are not great looking in my opinion
Plus I live in a condo dont wanna shake the entire building. You think KEF would be more than double as good as Polks?

Polk subs are pretty low end so it wouldn't surprise me that even Kef could do much better with a sub. As someone mentioned earlier, it's not really the capacity of the sub that will get you in trouble in an apartment/condo building (unless concrete construction maybe) it's your use of it. May as well have the better capability than not is my way of thinking about it. Subs are subject to Hoffman's Iron Law. Small subs just usually don't offer much....at least not without exceptional drivers/amps.

 

[aim1861]

Polk subs are pretty low end so it wouldn't surprise me that even Kef could do much better with a sub. As someone mentioned earlier, it's not really the capacity of the sub that will get you in trouble in an apartment/condo building (unless concrete construction maybe) it's your use of it. May as well have the better capability than not is my way of thinking about it. Subs are subject to Hoffman's Iron Law. Small subs just usually don't offer much....at least not without exceptional drivers/amps.

What you said makes a lot of sense. As I have not much experience with setting up subs if I bought a few subs and try to see how it works in my living area, what is that one should look for in order to conclude which is better sub?

 

[lovinthehd]

What you said makes a lot of sense. As I have not much experience with setting up subs if I bought a few subs and try to see how it works in my living area, what is that one should look for in order to conclude which is better sub?

I tend to look for overall capabilities, even if you don't plan to push the sub to the limit. Your room is a huge part of the equation as well as sub location. Multiple subs give you the advantage of placement to combat modes in your room, but to try to make subs compete like speakers without proper setup individually...not so useful.

 

[aim1861]

I tend to look for overall capabilities, even if you don't plan to push the sub to the limit. Your room is a huge part of the equation as well as sub location. Multiple subs give you the advantage of placement to combat modes in your room, but to try to make subs compete like speakers without proper setup individually...not so useful.

That means the room size, shape and placement is very crucial in judging the sub if its the right fit? What I am trying to understand is how do you people recommend a brand over another? Have they heard most brands out there and in so many different combinations that they can recommend one brand over another?
I was at a store and just for demo they played sunfire 10 inch, a couple of polks, yamaha and few others and it was a big AV area and I thought the PolK HTS-10 which is a newly launched product sounded good it was better than whatever else they had. But I didn't spend much time with it cuz I was not thinking of buying a sub.

But again I don't have much knowledge of subs or what to look for other than big fat thump
Thats why I thought I can talk to experienced people like you n many others to not just find the right product but in the process also learn that why we collectively chose a product over another. Its an investment I want to make in my knowledge of things so the next time I choose a better product with giving headache to a lot of very helpful people like you

 

[shadyJ]

Polk HTS 10 is (CAD 265) and KEF KUBE10 (CAD 600) do you think its worth buying Kef or buy SVS SB1000 instead?

I'm not sure that the SB-2000 would be a big improvement over the Kube10. I would be looking at the PB-2000 or PC-2000 if possible. The Kube10 might be fine for your purposes though.

 

[KenM10759]

Do you use it for music or movies? How much you paid for it if you dont mind me asking?

What are some key differences you observed between SB2000 and KUBE10? My room is 12x20x8 ft. do you think it'll perform similarly?

I only use it for music, and it's in my office fairly close to me. Your room is exactly twice the size of my office.

What I first noticed about the Kube 10b vs. the SB2000 is how much "tighter" and musical it sounds. Hard to describe, I guess, but the Kube 10b reacts faster and probably cleaner (less distortion?) than the SB2000. It does not dig as deep, and that's no surprise given it's a 10" driver vs. the SB2000's 12" driver. I notice ZERO difference in the 300 watt vs 500 watt amp difference. I am anxious to hear a Kube 12b, because I just might like it better too and it'll compete better on the low end. It seems the Kube 8b, 10b, and 12b benefit the most from the little 3-position DSP switch on the back. It changes how the driver and amp work together and does it very well. Something about bass driver extension ("IBX"?) which I assume to be boosting power to the driver at the lowest frequencies to maintain output a little deeper. It's what I've done with an older subwoofer I rehabilitated with a new driver and DSP-controlled amp.

For your room, I think the Kube 10b wouldn't be as good a choice as the 12b, if you could afford the step up. I hope to test a 12b in my living room to possibly replace the SB2000. I might even find a way to use both, though if they act as differently as the Kube 10b to SB2000 do, it might not work. I got my 10b for $450 US, but it was "lightly used." The seller had bought it for use in his office too, but found it wasn't really good in his tighter space and his KEF LS50 Wireless speakers didn't really need a sub.

 

[snakeeyes]

If this is a condo, you might want to look at the RSL Speedwoofer possibly. Maybe 2 of them.

 

[shadyJ]

What I first noticed about the Kube 10b vs. the SB2000 is how much "tighter" and musical it sounds. Hard to describe, I guess, but the Kube 10b reacts faster and probably cleaner (less distortion?) than the SB2000. It does not dig as deep, and that's no surprise given it's a 10" driver vs. the SB2000's 12" driver. I notice ZERO difference in the 300 watt vs 500 watt amp difference. I am anxious to hear a Kube 12b, because I just might like it better too and it'll compete better on the low end. It seems the Kube 8b, 10b, and 12b benefit the most from the little 3-position DSP switch on the back. It changes how the driver and amp work together and does it very well. Something about bass driver extension ("IBX"?) which I assume to be boosting power to the driver at the lowest frequencies to maintain output a little deeper.
.

It's not likely that the Kef sub is reacting faster than the SVS sub. It's very doubtful that it is playing cleaner as well. Its more likely that the differences you heard were a matter of amplitude response.

 

[KenM10759]

I don't know how to describe it. I think it sounds clearer, and by comparison, the SB2000 sounds "muddier".

I like the Kube 10b, and that's all that matters to me. I liked the SB2000 before I got this and still like it, but I like this one better. Whatever it is, it works for me.

 

[shadyJ]

I don't know how to describe it. I think it sounds clearer, and by comparison, the SB2000 sounds "muddier".

I like the Kube 10b, and that's all that matters to me. I liked the SB2000 before I got this and still like it, but I like this one better. Whatever it is, it works for me.

I am not saying you should like one more than the other, and I am not saying that one is better. I am saying that a lot of people have misconceptions about subwoofer performance as it relates to the sound. What people attribute to 'speed' or 'tightness' is almost always a matter of frequency response shape. In a sense, that does have to do with speed, since when a sub has a greater amplitude response in high frequencies, its cone is moving faster than a sub with less high frequency output ability.

 

[aim1861]

I am not saying you should like one more than the other, and I am not saying that one is better. I am saying that a lot of people have misconceptions about subwoofer performance as it relates to the sound. What people attribute to 'speed' or 'tightness' is almost always a matter of frequency response shape. In a sense, that does have to do with speed, since when a sub has a greater amplitude response in high frequencies, its cone is moving faster than a sub with less high frequency output ability.

Woah! this is getting way to technical now, lets do this the easy way please
what if I bought a few subs and use them at my place? are there any test tracks or method of finding which works best at my place? what are the key factors in deciding which is the one I should keep and return the rest?

have you guys any experience with Sunfire sub? cuz to my ears Polk HTS-10 sounded very similar but the store manager said KEFs are much better and the tech comes from their legendary LS50W speakers. I have read in some of the threads here that KEF LS50 are one of the best speakers out there.

Do you think exchanging KEF Q100 with KEF Q150 makes sense as I am getting it for CAD 320 brand new. The only issue I can think of is that the ports are behind in Q150 where as In Q100 its in front. I have 5-6 inches of clearance behind the speakers would it affect the sound quality or bass reproduction?

 

[lovinthehd]

That means the room size, shape and placement is very crucial in judging the sub if its the right fit? What I am trying to understand is how do you people recommend a brand over another? Have they heard most brands out there and in so many different combinations that they can recommend one brand over another?
I was at a store and just for demo they played sunfire 10 inch, a couple of polks, yamaha and few others and it was a big AV area and I thought the PolK HTS-10 which is a newly launched product sounded good it was better than whatever else they had. But I didn't spend much time with it cuz I was not thinking of buying a sub.

But again I don't have much knowledge of subs or what to look for other than big fat thump
Thats why I thought I can talk to experienced people like you n many others to not just find the right product but in the process also learn that why we collectively chose a product over another. Its an investment I want to make in my knowledge of things so the next time I choose a better product with giving headache to a lot of very helpful people like you

Your room is subject to sub-schroder influences, try this article https://www.soundandvision.com/content/schroeder-frequency-show-and-tell-part-1
I don't audition subs particularly, as I find most stores don't set them up well nor is my room the same as theirs (and these days live far from a showroom and now simply build my own subs anyways). I go by value and performance parameters for the most part. This site can be very helpful www.data-bass.com (both the testing and the articles available there). At the frequencies involved "listening" has limited value outside of a well setup system in your own room.

Listening for a big fat thump doesn't sound too interesting either

 

[shadyJ]

Woah! this is getting way to technical now, lets do this the easy way please
what if I bought a few subs and use them at my place? are there any test tracks or method of finding which works best at my place? what are the key factors in deciding which is the one I should keep and return the rest?

have you guys any experience with Sunfire sub? cuz to my ears Polk HTS-10 sounded very similar but the store manager said KEFs are much better and the tech comes from their legendary LS50W speakers. I have read in some of the threads here that KEF LS50 are one of the best speakers out there.

Do you think exchanging KEF Q100 with KEF Q150 makes sense as I am getting it for CAD 320 brand new. The only issue I can think of is that the ports are behind in Q150 where as In Q100 its in front. I have 5-6 inches of clearance behind the speakers would it affect the sound quality or bass reproduction?

Related to what lovinthehd said, room acoustics have a lot more to do with what a subwoofer sounds like than what the subwoofer actually sounds like. Placement is going to make a much bigger difference than the brand that you select. It is very difficult to do A/B comparisons of subwoofers, and its not something I would encourage anyone to do with the goal of determining sound quality, except in vary rare circumstances.

 

[KenM10759]

Woah! this is getting way to technical now, lets do this the easy way please
what if I bought a few subs and use them at my place? are there any test tracks or method of finding which works best at my place? what are the key factors in deciding which is the one I should keep and return the rest?

have you guys any experience with Sunfire sub? cuz to my ears Polk HTS-10 sounded very similar but the store manager said KEFs are much better and the tech comes from their legendary LS50W speakers. I have read in some of the threads here that KEF LS50 are one of the best speakers out there.

Do you think exchanging KEF Q100 with KEF Q150 makes sense as I am getting it for CAD 320 brand new. The only issue I can think of is that the ports are behind in Q150 where as In Q100 its in front. I have 5-6 inches of clearance behind the speakers would it affect the sound quality or bass reproduction?

That's a REALLY good price for Q150's! They are indeed a better speaker than the ones you have, though it's not a quantum leap. It's a better tweeter in having a much smoother yet more extended response. It's also better because of the new rear port. That's mostly because the Uni-Q driver is now centered on the front baffle. Your space behind is similar to what I have for my LS50's, and they're fine. You would have the option of 1/2 port plugs or full port plugs, or none, depending upon how they actually sound in place.

No experience here with Sunfire subs. They look good on paper though. I like my KEF Kube 10b, would love a 12b if it were a bigger space.

 

[aim1861]

Related to what lovinthehd said, room acoustics have a lot more to do with what a subwoofer sounds like than what the subwoofer actually sounds like. Placement is going to make a much bigger difference than the brand that you select. It is very difficult to do A/B comparisons of subwoofers, and its not something I would encourage anyone to do with the goal of determining sound quality, except in vary rare circumstances.

If one can't tell which is better subwoofer doing A/B then what are the parameters on which people have concluded SVS or REL or HSU or anything else is better than any other brand? I know I am being a pest here but I really wanna understand why SVS is so popular when people can't even tell the difference doing A/B?

 

[aim1861]

That's a REALLY good price for Q150's! They are indeed a better speaker than the ones you have, though it's not a quantum leap. It's a better tweeter in having a much smoother yet more extended response. It's also better because of the new rear port. That's mostly because the Uni-Q driver is now centered on the front baffle. Your space behind is similar to what I have for my LS50's, and they're fine. You would have the option of 1/2 port plugs or full port plugs, or none, depending upon how they actually sound in place.

No experience here with Sunfire subs. They look good on paper though. I like my KEF Kube 10b, would love a 12b if it were a bigger space.

I don't think I can accommodate a 12 inch in the space I have. I'll exchange the KEF q100 to Q150 and see how that goes.

I am still trying to figure out whats the happening with the sub. Tomorrow I am going to the store lets see if I can find any valuable info and audition a few subs.

thats the space I have on both sides of the cabinet almost 18 inches.

 

[snakeeyes]

If one can't tell which is better subwoofer doing A/B then what are the parameters on which people have concluded SVS or REL or HSU or anything else is better than any other brand? I know I am being a pest here but I really wanna understand why SVS is so popular when people can't even tell the difference doing A/B?

I encourage you to bring as many subs and speakers you can into your home to test against each other and choose what you like best. I personally think the HSU VTF2 is a killer sub for 2 for $1100. I have these in my living room / dining / kitchen space which is 4700 cu ft. Another sub I own is the Rythmik LVX12 in my 2600 cu ft Mancave. This is a ported 12 like the VTF2 but 400w instead of 350w. This sub performs well but they are $730 each.

A ported 12 can shake your house so in a condo you would be really barely using them is my guess. Output at 16 or 17hz will rattle the structure probably a bit.

That is why I was thinking a RSL Speedwoofer 10in pair of subs would be great in a condo. These are $400 each so two is $800. They don’t go as low but they get your bookshelves sounding like towers and provide LFE effects down to around 26hz. (Not 16hz).