HDMI 2.1 Chipset Bug in AV Receivers Causing Gaming Problems

T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Field Marshall
A solution? More like a f#%kin’ band aid. Reminds me of the old AC-3 RF demodulators. Almost thirty years on and these manufacturers will still put half baked s#%t in a box to sell their products and deal with the mess later. You’d think they would have made it a switcher to sweeten the pot and added one or two more ports. I wouldn’t say Sound United did anything to make their product better as was stated in the article. The damn things are still crippled and need an additional device to do the job they were supposed to do in the first place. Here’s hopin’ all of those who need one have an extra outlet on their walls or power strips. If somebody wants to upgrade, they would do well to wait until next year now that the HDMI 2.1 spec is actually finalized and buyers won’t be f#%kin’ guinea pigs. Say, I wonder how hot the little f#%kers get when powered on for hours. Yikes, and I thought Irv was Grumpy.;)
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Spartan
A solution? More like a f#%kin’ band aid. Reminds me of the old AC-3 RF demodulators. Almost thirty years on and these manufacturers will still put half baked s#%t in a box to sell their products and deal with the mess later. You’d think they would have made it a switcher to sweeten the pot and added one or two more ports. I wouldn’t say Sound United did anything to make their product better as was stated in the article. The damn things are still crippled and need an additional device to do the job they were supposed to do in the first place. Here’s hopin’ all of those who need one have an extra outlet on their walls or power strips. If somebody wants to upgrade, they would do well to wait until next year now that the HDMI 2.1 spec is actually finalized and buyers won’t be f#%kin’ guinea pigs. Say, I wonder how hot the little f#%kers get when powered on for hours. Yikes, and I thought Irv was Grumpy.;)
This is why being an early adopter is bad. Don't want nonsense like this to deal with? Make sure a product has a bit to mature before you purchase. NEVER buy the first generation of something.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
It’s definitely cheaper for Denon to offer the box than taking AVRs back to service for physical repair.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Spartan
It’s definitely cheaper for Denon to offer the box than taking AVRs back to service for physical repair.
Exactly. I'd prefer to take back the AVR like Onkyo did, but this is fine for the most part.

There's a reason I haven't purchased one of the HDMI 2.1 receivers yet. This seems to happen every new HDMI version. Sucks for consumers and manufacturers.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Field Marshall
I’m wondering at this point if Yamaha will release the A6 or A8 at all this year. HDMI 2.1 features are still on hold for the RX-V6A/TSR-700 and RX-A2A. Still, if nothing had gone wrong, a gamer wanting both consoles was going to have to connect one of them directly to the TV using a Denon/Marantz. There really isn't any excuse for not releasing HDMI 2.1 capability on every port next year. It should not have been included at all last year when the spec wasn’t final but they wanted to bait some gamers. TVs and the consoles themselves weren’t exactly ready for primetime. We’ll see if they crank out anymore consoles before moving on to the slim models. It can’t happen quickly enough. The current consoles are too big and fugly.
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
The adapter box is a nice fix..
Hopefully all works fine.
But I wonder why Sound United didn't add multiple HDMI inputs and switch, as now designed it has just 1 HDMI port..
Then the box could be marketed as an HDMI port expander component..

Just my $0.02... ;)
 
O

ouchmythumbs

Audiophyte
But I wonder why Sound United didn't add multiple HDMI inputs and switch
Because this is already going to cost them a significant amount; 100% loss. It won't be marketed, at all; this isn't a value-add component. I'd even argue a liability for consumers. Fast forward 5-10 years when going to sell this used. Market dynamics will have swung back (unless we see other pandemic-like situation) and I suspect the models with this issue will have depreciated greater than without a bug, even if there was a "fix".
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
Because this is already going to cost them a significant amount; 100% loss. It won't be marketed, at all; this isn't a value-add component. I'd even argue a liability for consumers. Fast forward 5-10 years when going to sell this used. Market dynamics will have swung back (unless we see other pandemic-like situation) and I suspect the models with this issue will have depreciated greater than without a bug, even if there was a "fix".
I have a different take on the situation...
Being an AV installer, we sold/installed several Denon and Marantz AVRs on the promise of having HDMI 2.1 capability...
Once certain HDMI 2.1 sources became available, then it became known the Marantz and Denon AVRs had major compatibility issues for the enhanced HDMI 2.1 port. This was 1st reported over 7 months ago, yet no corrective action was provided other than the work-around by "connecting the HDMI 2.1 source directly to the HD display." Some of our customers were understanding and others were not, and some requested $ refunds, and considering time expense for sending out our techs we lost significant $$ on this issue.
In my opinion...
Denon and Marantz had an opportunity to correct the situation by having plus features included with the adapter box solution. By providing more enhanced HDMI 2.1 ports beyond the single port would go along way for the consumer to support the adapter box as a positive solution.....

Just my $0.02... ;)
 
O

ouchmythumbs

Audiophyte
I have a different take on the situation...
Being an AV installer, we sold/installed several Denon and Marantz AVRs on the promise of having HDMI 2.1 capability...
Once certain HDMI 2.1 sources became available, then it became known the Marantz and Denon AVRs had major compatibility issues for the enhanced HDMI 2.1 port. This was 1st reported over 7 months ago, yet no corrective action was provided other than the work-around by "connecting the HDMI 2.1 source directly to the HD display." Some of our customers were understanding and others were not, and some requested $ refunds, and considering time expense for sending out our techs we lost significant $$ on this issue.
In my opinion...
Denon and Marantz had an opportunity to correct the situation by having plus features included with the adapter box solution. By providing more enhanced HDMI 2.1 ports beyond the single port would go along way for the consumer to support the adapter box as a positive solution.....

Just my $0.02... ;)
Valid take on the issue. I guess if you're in for a penny, might as well go in for a pound! And to your point, the qualitative returns are there, including maintaining a happy customer base. I imagine a forward looking C-suite would have considered that; unfortunately, all too often the bean counters are calling the shots. Wonder what is shareholders' take on the situation; long-term customer retention vs. maximization of quarterly profit?
 
X

Xcel

Audiophyte
Totally unacceptable solution, an extra ugly box is just ridiculous. On top of that. I cannot imaging the amount of latency this conversion box is going to add or if it is going dumb down chroma subsampling... They need to offer a real solution (replace HDMI board, replace the unit itself or full refund)
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Spartan
Still stunned by the anger directed at one company who isn’t even responsible for the flawed product in question: the actual chipset itself.
Yes, at least two major companies dropped the ball on implementation. I get it. We’ve been over this… six pages ago.
So everybody freaking out over just Sound United actually doing something to make their systems work as advertised is beyond silly.
Panasonic Solutions, now Nuvoton Technology, is the manufacturer: they released and sold buggy gear. Sony and Microsoft have a responsibility in this too, frankly. No this does not absolve SU and Yamaha for their part in not testing things… but it would have required them having PS5s and XBox with working content over a year before the consoles were publicly available.
(Perhaps @M Code could she’d light on when SU and Yam went to production vs Sony and MS going to production, please. :) )

On top of all of this, I haven’t seen one person bag on Yamaha the way everybody is piling on SU. And, SU has actually done something about it. Whether you like it or not: immaterial. But they have done something to Yamaha’s nothing.

And in the end, this is really still just a big lesson in the risks of both being First To Market, as well as Early Adoption.

*steps off soapbox
 
D

depechefan

Junior Audioholic
I wonder what all this means for the promised upgrade of the Denon avc-x8500h. (Which I happen to own). Hopefully they can install a board which works. And of course more than one 2.1 port would be fantastic...
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
Still stunned by the anger directed at one company who isn’t even responsible for the flawed product in question: the actual chipset itself.
Yes, at least two major companies dropped the ball on implementation. I get it. We’ve been over this… six pages ago.
So everybody freaking out over just Sound United actually doing something to make their systems work as advertised is beyond silly.
Panasonic Solutions, now Nuvoton Technology, is the manufacturer: they released and sold buggy gear. Sony and Microsoft have a responsibility in this too, frankly. No this does not absolve SU and Yamaha for their part in not testing things… but it would have required them having PS5s and XBox with working content over a year before the consoles were publicly available.
(Perhaps @M Code could she’d light on when SU and Yam went to production vs Sony and MS going to production, please. :) )

On top of all of this, I haven’t seen one person bag on Yamaha the way everybody is piling on SU. And, SU has actually done something about it. Whether you like it or not: immaterial. But they have done something to Yamaha’s nothing.

And in the end, this is really still just a big lesson in the risks of both being First To Market, as well as Early Adoption.

*steps off soapbox
My reaction to Sound United is negative because of after 7 months they had no announced solution. Their only response was to connect the "HDMI 2.1 source directly to the HDMI 2.1 display..."
Gee thanks we could have figured that 1 out.. :confused:

When Denon started shipping of HDMI 2.1 AVRs there were no HDMI 2.1 sources available...
But if they had submitted their products to the HDMI testing center for certification they would have known promptly they couldn't process HDMI 2.1 signals properly... As the HDMI testing centers did have HDMI 2.1 sources for testing and product certification. But instead Denon did their only HDMI testing is done in-house...

As explained in my previous posts, many of my customers bought the Denon AVRs believing it could handle HDMI 2.1 4K and 8K enhanced sources. But when the full story about the Denon's AVRs' was known after the release Christmas of the PS5 and X-Box One consoles our customers began to quiz me when was a fix coming...
Many customers were OK with waiting but some were unhappy and asking for $$ back. Giving $$ back was painful, but the distressing point was we were between the customer and brand with a major issue without any solution by the brand.

Thats why in my posts about the adapter box solution, in my opinion Sound United had an opportunity to go 1 step beyond by having more than 1 HDMI 2.1 ports... This way the customer would get,:
  • A fix for HDMI 2.1
  • More HDMI 2.1 ports

Just my $0.02... ;)
 
O

ouchmythumbs

Audiophyte
But if they had submitted their products to the HDMI testing center for certification they would have known promptly they couldn't process HDMI 2.1 signals properly... As the HDMI testing centers did have HDMI 2.1 sources for testing and product certification. But instead Denon did their only HDMI testing is done in-house...
Without knowing anything about this, I really question the HDMI certification process, too, and the culpability there. Reminds me of the FAA letting aerospace manufacturers self-certify; what could possibly go wrong?
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Spartan
Without knowing anything about this, I really question the HDMI certification process, too, and the culpability there. Reminds me of the FAA letting aerospace manufacturers self-certify; what could possibly go wrong?
But at least an AVR doesn't crash and burn with a hundred people on board! :p
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Field Marshall
But at least an AVR doesn't crash and burn with a hundred people on board! :p
It could cause a fire, though, or give a deadly electrical shot if not properly designed and manufactured.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Spartan
My reaction to Sound United is negative because of after 7 months they had no announced solution. Their only response was to connect the "HDMI 2.1 source directly to the HDMI 2.1 display..."
Gee thanks we could have figured that 1 out.. :confused:

When Denon started shipping of HDMI 2.1 AVRs there were no HDMI 2.1 sources available...
But if they had submitted their products to the HDMI testing center for certification they would have known promptly they couldn't process HDMI 2.1 signals properly... As the HDMI testing centers did have HDMI 2.1 sources for testing and product certification. But instead Denon did their only HDMI testing is done in-house...

As explained in my previous posts, many of my customers bought the Denon AVRs believing it could handle HDMI 2.1 4K and 8K enhanced sources. But when the full story about the Denon's AVRs' was known after the release Christmas of the PS5 and X-Box One consoles our customers began to quiz me when was a fix coming...
Many customers were OK with waiting but some were unhappy and asking for $$ back. Giving $$ back was painful, but the distressing point was we were between the customer and brand with a major issue without any solution by the brand.

Thats why in my posts about the adapter box solution, in my opinion Sound United had an opportunity to go 1 step beyond by having more than 1 HDMI 2.1 ports... This way the customer would get,:
  • A fix for HDMI 2.1
  • More HDMI 2.1 ports

Just my $0.02... ;)
Thanks for getting back on this. I appreciate it.
Please don't misunderstand, SU deserves to wear pie on their face over this. So does Yamaha.

Out of curiosity, as an 'insider,' do you know if Nuvoton-Panasonic has updated the chipset for new products coming out this year? Or are we in for a long morass of HDMI 2.1 implementation?
 

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